How important are exchanges? - page 4.

Inwestour

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Quote from: jokers10 on November 18, 2022, 10:39:43 AM

Oh, when we talk about audits of some companies I always remember Bernard Madoff's story: I'm sure that for years of his Ponzi scheme there were multiple audits of his company! It looked really safe. But now we know that it was never safe and if was fraud for tens of years!

Even if an exchange looks really safe remember that you risk your money, your own money trusting a third party when you can just keep money at a personal non custodial wallet. Everyone weighs their own risks, but IMO they should keep in mind that there is nothing safe for 100%.

Absolutely true, each person must bear responsibility for their money on their own. I spoke with several people to understand why it is so important for them to save coins on the exchange, the answers were amazing. Someone really believes that it is safe and in case of theft believes that the exchange will reimburse them for everything, and someone thinks that this is important, otherwise he will not have time to buy or sell coins at the best price if he keeps it in his wallet, very strange decisions.

Smack That Ace

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Quote from: Eddyc on November 19, 2022, 12:53:32 PM

Unfortunately we don't have enough options to discuss on the topic and centralization has been reigning for a long time in the market and with that DEXs were born to try to break this monopoly. However, there was already a project that could provide liquidity and meet everyone's needs and in this case I'm talking about Cryptobridge but unfortunately the project did not go ahead. On the other hand, we need these current exchanges to do trade, stimulate the market and help attract new people to crypto and especially Bitcoin.

After the FTX exchange incident, many people are wanting to boycott the exchange but in my opinion it is useless, exchanges are making the market centralized but there is no denying its importance to the market. It can be said that it is an integral part of the market, like it or not, we don't have much choice in this situation.

I also agree with you that the exchange is the bridge for people to connect bitcoin as well as the market, if the exchange disappears the market will be very difficult to develop. Exchanges will continue to grow and as long as we know how to use them properly there should be no problems, use it for trading but never use it as a store of assets.

nullama

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Quote from: jokers10 on November 20, 2022, 08:59:22 AM

~snip~
DEX is not the same as p2p as the transaction goes through a smart contract of an exchange. So problems could be mainly in case if a corrupted smart contract. Swap exchanges accumulate trading pairs provided by users so tokens for a trader are held by exchange. But I'm sure we'll see some new decisions for even better service. I don't know which, may be they are not invented yet, but we are still in the very beginning.

At the end of the day a DEX is just a bunch of P2P transaction. It's two people transacting directly between them. In one case the transaction is more automated, but it's very similar as there's no central authority in between them.

jokers10

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Quote from: ilovealtcoins on November 19, 2022, 06:51:56 PM

DEX is developing day by day, it is true that there has been progress recently but inadequacies are still many. Honestly, to provide services like CEX, I would say never DEX can do. I've never traded P2P on any DEX, but I wonder how they can prevent scams if they don't control the users. If you trade on centralized exchange, once scam happens, exchange will lock your account and force you to verify your identity but that can't happen on DEX. I am curious.

DEX is not the same as p2p as the transaction goes through a smart contract of an exchange. So problems could be mainly in case if a corrupted smart contract. Swap exchanges accumulate trading pairs provided by users so tokens for a trader are held by exchange. But I'm sure we'll see some new decisions for even better service. I don't know which, may be they are not invented yet, but we are still in the very beginning.

ilovealtcoins

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Quote from: jokers10 on November 19, 2022, 10:36:16 AM

Quote from: ilovealtcoins on November 18, 2022, 11:29:42 AM

It is true to never leave money on exchanges centralized at the end of the day, as your money can disappear at any time but there is no denying that exchanges are extremely important. Like it or not, we will never get rid of it completely, without the exchange, the market will never grow. We would be in a lot of trouble without the exchange, I don't know what I would do to survive in the market if I didn't use the exchange because I am a trader.

In awaiting while DEXes will be developed enough to replace CEXes. Even now some trading can be done on DEX and modern DEXes are faster and easier than first ones. I'm sure we'll see some new generations of decentralized decisions for trading in not too distant future. And as for now we just need to consider risks every time our coins is not in our non custodial wallet.

DEX is developing day by day, it is true that there has been progress recently but inadequacies are still many. Honestly, to provide services like CEX, I would say never DEX can do. I've never traded P2P on any DEX, but I wonder how they can prevent scams if they don't control the users. If you trade on centralized exchange, once scam happens, exchange will lock your account and force you to verify your identity but that can't happen on DEX. I am curious.

Odusko

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Quote from: ?? on ??

My view is that exchanges will always play an important role in the Bitcoin economy. They provide a much-needed entry point for those who don't want to deal with the movement of digital currencies themselves but just want to buy and sell them. Without an exchange service, people would be more reluctant to use Bitcoin. In most circumstances where the issue is more of a balance whether an exchange is the best option for them.

You are very currency with tour statement, but also. Can we refer to Bitcoin as the bitcoin economy because that s treatment got my attention, I can agree with you that Bitcoin play an important role in the economy as an alternative but an integral part of the economy because Bitcoin is not yet widely accepted?
Exchange indeed plays a very important role in the cryptocurrency industry the exchange is the cryptocurrency bank and exchange plays very important role in cryptocurrency adoption.

Eddyc

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Unfortunately we don't have enough options to discuss on the topic and centralization has been reigning for a long time in the market and with that DEXs were born to try to break this monopoly. However, there was already a project that could provide liquidity and meet everyone's needs and in this case I'm talking about Cryptobridge but unfortunately the project did not go ahead. On the other hand, we need these current exchanges to do trade, stimulate the market and help attract new people to crypto and especially Bitcoin.

jokers10

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Quote from: ilovealtcoins on November 18, 2022, 11:29:42 AM

It is true to never leave money on exchanges centralized at the end of the day, as your money can disappear at any time but there is no denying that exchanges are extremely important. Like it or not, we will never get rid of it completely, without the exchange, the market will never grow. We would be in a lot of trouble without the exchange, I don't know what I would do to survive in the market if I didn't use the exchange because I am a trader.

In awaiting while DEXes will be developed enough to replace CEXes. Even now some trading can be done on DEX and modern DEXes are faster and easier than first ones. I'm sure we'll see some new generations of decentralized decisions for trading in not too distant future. And as for now we just need to consider risks every time our coins is not in our non custodial wallet.

ilovealtcoins

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Quote from: Chato1977 on November 16, 2022, 08:40:28 PM

Quote from: HughMunro on November 13, 2022, 09:56:40 PM

I think the exchange is a very important existence, which is convenient for traders to invest and understand the currency, especially for newcomers. Newcomers who have just entered the market can acquire a lot of knowledge in the exchange.

actually it is not right to invest in exchange instead use it as medium to buy your coin and put it to your own wallet,
never let your funds stay even overnight in centralized exchange mate , this is not safe for you and your funds.
I never let my funds in exchange even overnight because of many cases of hacking that happened in the past.

It is true to never leave money on exchanges centralized at the end of the day, as your money can disappear at any time but there is no denying that exchanges are extremely important. Like it or not, we will never get rid of it completely, without the exchange, the market will never grow. We would be in a lot of trouble without the exchange, I don't know what I would do to survive in the market if I didn't use the exchange because I am a trader.

jokers10

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Quote from: Inwestour on November 17, 2022, 09:41:09 AM

This will probably not be the last case, especially now when it happens very often with different projects and exchanges. Many exchanges are now trying to audit following the binance example, to show users that these exchanges are safe, but these are just attempts to keep these users. In fact, many, realizing all the danger, are trying to withdraw their funds from centralized exchanges.

Oh, when we talk about audits of some companies I always remember Bernard Madoff's story: I'm sure that for years of his Ponzi scheme there were multiple audits of his company! It looked really safe. But now we know that it was never safe and if was fraud for tens of years!

Even if an exchange looks really safe remember that you risk your money, your own money trusting a third party when you can just keep money at a personal non custodial wallet. Everyone weighs their own risks, but IMO they should keep in mind that there is nothing safe for 100%.

KennyR

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Quote from: Franctoshi on November 17, 2022, 12:19:23 PM

Exchanges are still very important regardless of the shits going on right now, Therefore I don't really think that there's gonna be a time when we will totally do away with this exchanges not until when fiat currency is no longer in existence. Too even if we don't need them to exchange our fiat currency but we need them to trade futures/leverage trading and this is why I think they're very important and also play key role in the adoption of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

Exchanges always have its importance unlike the awful incidents happening around the cryptospace. Even after decades we'll encounter similar incidents from the exchanges. Similar incidents have been taking place from the beginning days in some form. People find this to be some form of market disturbance and move on.

Some say decentralised exchanges were the right way to keep things away from such issues. This is a never ending game and at some point people gets used to it rather than making discussion over it.

Franctoshi

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Exchanges are still very important regardless of the shits going on right now, Therefore I don't really think that there's gonna be a time when we will totally do away with this exchanges not until when fiat currency is no longer in existence. Too even if we don't need them to exchange our fiat currency but we need them to trade futures/leverage trading and this is why I think they're very important and also play key role in the adoption of Bitcoin and cryptocurrency.

pawanjain

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Nothing lasts forever

Quote from: jokers10 on November 17, 2022, 08:13:24 AM

Quote from: Mate2237 on November 16, 2022, 10:20:50 AM

The existence of exchange is to facilitate the transaction process fast, though it is not fast as p2p. Also some of the exchange platforms pay higher than p2p and that is one of the major reason people are using exchange platforms for their transactions. Another reason why people keep their coins in exchange platforms is because of the transaction fees. That instead of keeping the coins in a wallet and send to someone whenever you want to sell it and the charging fee in the transaction process whenever you send makes people to store their coins in the exchange platforms because some exchange platforms don't charge fees.

Worrying about commissions and losing everything... Yes, it is how things are, but FTX story of the last days hints again that holding assets in exchanges accounts is a really bad idea. It could be good for making deal but main assets better to hold on non custodial cold wallet. We all know that FTX is not the first and definitely not the last example of bankrupt exchange.

Lol

That is the first time I am hearing someone say that people keep money on exchanges just so that they can save transaction fees when they send money to someone.
I mean few people I know do use binance because it allows free transfers between binance users but never have I ever heard them keeping all their money on exchanges.
They keep bare minimum to trade and make essential transactions.

rhomelmabini

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Quote from: Queentoshi on October 21, 2022, 09:10:05 AM

Bitcoins can exist without exchanges, but would you support the argument that the existence of exchanges are among the factors facilitating the popularity and accessibility that people have to bitcoins?

"Among the factors" was probably the right word for that because we can assume some people tend to adopt/known this space through these platforms. For me, since this is already the present and the future, exchanges has essential part to be in this space but the future as well is to have it regulated.

Inwestour

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Quote from: jokers10 on November 17, 2022, 08:13:24 AM

Worrying about commissions and losing everything... Yes, it is how things are, but FTX story of the last days hints again that holding assets in exchanges accounts is a really bad idea. It could be good for making deal but main assets better to hold on non custodial cold wallet. We all know that FTX is not the first and definitely not the last example of bankrupt exchange.

This will probably not be the last case, especially now when it happens very often with different projects and exchanges. Many exchanges are now trying to audit following the binance example, to show users that these exchanges are safe, but these are just attempts to keep these users. In fact, many, realizing all the danger, are trying to withdraw their funds from centralized exchanges.

fauzan Ichsan

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Quote from: jokers10 on November 17, 2022, 08:13:24 AM

Quote from: Mate2237 on November 16, 2022, 10:20:50 AM

The existence of exchange is to facilitate the transaction process fast, though it is not fast as p2p. Also some of the exchange platforms pay higher than p2p and that is one of the major reason people are using exchange platforms for their transactions. Another reason why people keep their coins in exchange platforms is because of the transaction fees. That instead of keeping the coins in a wallet and send to someone whenever you want to sell it and the charging fee in the transaction process whenever you send makes people to store their coins in the exchange platforms because some exchange platforms don't charge fees.

Worrying about commissions and losing everything... Yes, it is how things are, but FTX story of the last days hints again that holding assets in exchanges accounts is a really bad idea. It could be good for making deal but main assets better to hold on non custodial cold wallet. We all know that FTX is not the first and definitely not the last example of bankrupt exchange.

if it happens like that then who is at a disadvantage, I think choosing the best exchange and only for a safer transaction process, we store the rest in our personal wallet, so that we have full authority and are responsible for our own assets. even though we will lose transaction fees but if we percentage with the profit we get, I don't think it's a big nominal, the most important thing is the safety of our money

jokers10

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Quote from: Mate2237 on November 16, 2022, 10:20:50 AM

The existence of exchange is to facilitate the transaction process fast, though it is not fast as p2p. Also some of the exchange platforms pay higher than p2p and that is one of the major reason people are using exchange platforms for their transactions. Another reason why people keep their coins in exchange platforms is because of the transaction fees. That instead of keeping the coins in a wallet and send to someone whenever you want to sell it and the charging fee in the transaction process whenever you send makes people to store their coins in the exchange platforms because some exchange platforms don't charge fees.

Worrying about commissions and losing everything... Yes, it is how things are, but FTX story of the last days hints again that holding assets in exchanges accounts is a really bad idea. It could be good for making deal but main assets better to hold on non custodial cold wallet. We all know that FTX is not the first and definitely not the last example of bankrupt exchange.

ChiBitCTy

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As of right now there is no question that bitcoin exchanges are a vital and integral part of bitcoin and it's current ecosystem. They are needed without question. While I agree with you that bitcoin can technically exist without exchanges, the adoption process would without question go much slower than the pace it's currently on track for if this were to happen. It's to many what I guess you could potentially call a necessary evil at this moment.

Chato1977

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Quote from: HughMunro on November 13, 2022, 09:56:40 PM

I think the exchange is a very important existence, which is convenient for traders to invest and understand the currency, especially for newcomers. Newcomers who have just entered the market can acquire a lot of knowledge in the exchange.

actually it is not right to invest in exchange instead use it as medium to buy your coin and put it to your own wallet,
never let your funds stay even overnight in centralized exchange mate , this is not safe for you and your funds.
I never let my funds in exchange even overnight because of many cases of hacking that happened in the past.

nullama

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Quote from: jokers10 on November 16, 2022, 10:05:13 AM

~snip~
Yes, there is a difference, and not only currency can be a legal tender, but in this case Bitcoin is used in El Salvador as a currency if we look at most definitions of this word. Because generally currency is money used at some territory what is authorized by law at this territory. So Bitcoin is a currency of El Salvador.

Here's the definition of legal tender from the Bank of England:

Quote from: https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/knowledgebank/what-is-legal-tender

Legal tender has a narrow technical meaning which has no use in everyday life. It means that if you offer to fully pay off a debt to someone in legal tender, they can’t sue you for failing to repay.

Whereas currency is money:

Quote from: https://www.wordnik.com/words/currency

Money in any form when in actual use as a medium of exchange, especially circulating paper money.

So you can pay with any form of money, say bitcoin, anywhere in the world in which the other party accepts it, but only in El Salvador and Central African Republic bitcoin has to be accepted for any debt.

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