Topic: How is Bitcoin living up to Satoshi's original vision? (Read 651 times)

The bitcoin today took a lot of changes because we all know that the bitcoin is just a single coin that ignored by the other people because the price of it is just no more than a one-dollar but still there are some people trust then worth of this coin to make a lot of profit someday by the time goes by the price of the bitcoin goes up and from the year of 2017 the bitcoin shows it's the largest amount that reaches for over 14k dollars and that was a huge profit by that time many people getting curious about this coin and now they are making some investment and trading and hoping to earn more and help them to make more money. Now the price of the bitcoin falls and recovered from last year and now we are hoping again the price of it beat the previous record to earn more income.

Satoshi is not the God, he can not foresee everything. And the market has put bitcoin to use in mainly cross boarder transactions and store of value, those two usages are not fee sensitive yet

Unless it is totally broken for those two purposes, it still serve those demand and attract more people. Other coins in principle can provide better user experience and low fee, but lack of liquidity and awareness

To be sincere, Bitcoin has really changed from what it used to be. I can remember for sure that there was a time when Bitcoin used to as you have said and even better, but now it is totally different and my friend had to pay up to $7 on Blockchain wallet for a transaction that would take up to one hour, although he later told me that it was because he received lots of small coins, but I don’t know that for sure. Even the person that referred me to Bitcoin is no longer into it, he decided to quit after the last bull run, he withdrew all his money, a huge amount and he quit.

When I asked him why he decided to quit since he’s the one that once advised me to be investing in Bitcoin, he told me that’s because everything has changed and Bitcoin is no longer what it used to be. Well, I am not quitting anytime soon, I still like Bitcoin and I will continue making use of it and one day there might be change.

And part of Bitcoin remaining the strongest will mean not compromising the parts that make it strong in the hope of making it more conducive to use as a currency.  Some forkcoins have already proven that's not a viable path.  We need to find ways to make it more usable as a currency without sacrificing the existing qualities people believe in and rely on.

In any case, bitcoin still has something to work on. While he is far from perfect and this must be agreed. Its main purpose, to be an alternative means of payment, still works very poorly.
Now bitcoin is in most cases used as a speculative means of storing value. As long as people have hope that in the future it will grow significantly in price, this will work. However, in general, a financial asset with high price volatility cannot be a good means of storing value. Well, cryptocurrency is developing and developing very quickly. This is a good guarantee of her success. Only the strongest will remain in this market.

Also, take a moment to recognize what minimum fees used to mean in Satoshi's day: 0.01 BTC vs. the 1 satoshi/byte minimum we generally pay today.

Satoshi also encouraged a fee market, just like we have now:


The narrative of perpetually infinite cheap/free transactions that Gavin Andresen and Jeff Garzik promoted was never "Satoshi's vision" and I think the above quotes convey that.

Entirely your prerogative, but many would argue that physical precious metals are definitely harder to spend than BTC is.  BTC is easily divisible and highly portable.  You generally don't "spend" gold, you redeem it for fiat and then spend the fiat instead.  In your original post, you said:
Please attempt to make such a transaction using physical gold and let me know how you get on.   

BTC may not be the perfect currency, but it's much closer to being a currency than gold is.

I can see why the concept of BCH is popular with its believers. I absolutely cannot understand how any rational person can believe its actual implementation is anything other than a squirt of diarrhoea in Satoshi's face, let alone BSV which shoves him straight up its ruined guts.

It's massively centralised, has been 51% attacked, had incredibly amateurish features like emergency difficulty adjustment shoehorned in and an unknown corporation proposed taxing miners to pay for development. If you don't pay the tax your blocks get orphaned. It looks like that idea at least is now on the scrapheap.

Once again, they're sacrificing the stuff that really counts in pursuit of bells and whistles. If BTC could be cash without setting itself on fire it would. Right now that's not achievable while remaining intact. It has to remain intact to be developed further which is what's happening.

The first things to go in pursuit of flashiness are decentralisation and prudence. If you don't preserve them then everything that comes after winds up ultimately worthless. You may as well go back to Paypal.

Yea, I do agree with you, it's still functional and not bad if you're sending LARGE amounts, however even for that there are now better, cheaper, faster alternatives. It's like, why would someone use a rotatry dial phone when we now have smartphones, are there still people who will use old tech, FOR SURE! The issue is, the community had the chance to move it in a direction that was revolutionary and stuck it it's original goal and vision, in my opinion they failed.

Now, say what you want about BCH (Bitcoin Cash), I know I'm going to get tons of hate for this, and even I, as much as the next person, hate how they took Bitcoin's name and branding to potentially confuse people. Putting that aside, everything they are doing and have done, is much more in line with the direction I thought Bitcoin would go.

As many have pointed out, it's not Satoshi's project, he left it to the community, I fully understand and get that. The issue is, the community are motivated by greed and profit as much as the next man, so a lot of decisions are being made to benefit miners and hodlrs of Bitcoin as opposed to actually progressing and making the tech useful again.

Like I said though, people need to stop getting their knickers in a twist (not you personally op) but in general, people get far to offended at me having an opinion. I'm not saying I'm 100% right, I could be wrong, I'm not willing Bitcoin to fail, hopefully it returns to the usefulness of it's former days. Too many people in here are just here for the gains, just look at the counter arguments, none have them have been productive and nobody has addressed the valid rebuttals I've given, they just come back posting the same thing like @pooya87 above who goes on about ETH when I've already addressed and answered this, but he's just choosing to ignore it as opposed to telling me why my reasoning was wrong or why he disagrees with it.

Op, I agree that Bitcoin is not living up to Satoshi's vision. Bitcoin was supposed to be money, but mainly people use it as an asset or trade it as stock. Bitcoin was supposed to be used for direct transactions between people with no intermediaries, but we use exchanges and some wallets which are intermediaries. Bitcoin micro-transactions are a disaster. At the same time, it's not all that bad. Bitcoin has shown what is possible. Bitcoin is still very cheap and fast for big transactions. Projects like The Lightning Network are looking into the problem of small transactions. I think Bitcoin still deserves respect and even though it's not living up to Satoshi's vision in some aspects, I bet Satoshi could not even imagine how huge of a thing Bitcoin would become.

Do I care that a project is more centralised than Bitcoin NO do I care if it is/isn't an effective currency NO! I was comparing Bitcoin to its original vision not ETH, ETH was never set up to do what Bitcoin does.
XRP for example is said to be very centralised, do I think it's a worthless investment? NO!
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you first criticize bitcoin, then follow it up by saying you believe in the "technology" and "revolution" then follow that up with saying you hold a lot of ETH, a coin that is in contradiction of all you said before. the conclusion i made was the only possible conclusion.

it is not #2, it has a huge market cap because of its huge supply and a gigantic 72 million premine.
and it is not utilized at all. all i have seen in the past 5 years has been pump and dumps and ICO scams. that is not utility.
and i don't define success as being pumped and dumped. sure i also make profit from ETH and all other shitcoins that get pumped but i never "invest" in any of them because dump comes after a pump. and being pumped doesn't mean they have any utilities.

In the UK our bank to bank payments take a matter of seconds, wire transfers abroad take a small amount of time, it's not a lie, look up Faster Payment Service in the UK. Most bank transactions take a mater of seconds now.

Yes, transfers abroad, especially for large amounts are silly and can take awhile BUT with PayPal that rules that out, transferwise, so many options.

Even if we're looking at crypto, Bitcoin is so stupidly inefficent, use NANO, STEEM, XLM, XRP, all easily liquidated for many other tradings pairs and they do what Bitcoin does better. Am I saying these will ever beat Bitcoin and slip the rankings, No. Am I saying people should hold these as an investment? No.

I'm saying, you're giving Bitcoin praise for doing something in an hour over banks when there are dozens of projects out there, that are credible, that can do it better, faster, cheaper or free.

So you lost a fortune by selling something that became even more valuable later. I see where your grudge is coming from...

TODAY i made a small transaction to an exchange to use fiat, as always, i used 1 sat/B. It took ONE HOUR to get confirmed.

How do you even DARE to say this is "extremely long time"? Do you think we are stupid or what? Give me a break. It was about 144 satoshis for a single hour, have you ever done bank wire transfers? Probably not, or else you are a liar.

Say what you want but Bitcoin is working as intended, and that is the reason it keeps growing in value, albeit slower and slower, exactly as designed, but still preserves its purchasing power after a decade. What you want in a coin is not "Satoshi's vision", it is YOUR vision. Go ahead, copy Bitcoin's code and execute it again, you then have your own blockchain Go make your altcoin, and hope you don't end up like BTG...

But the difference between Bitcoin and almost everything else is that Bitcoin does what it does despite having the shit kicked out of it 24/7 for years on end and maxed out much of the time too. It's also managed to do that while still doing its best to uphold its principles and fighting off endless attempts to hijack it.

That's the bit that counts and that's what decides its value and position. That also overrules potential usability shortcomings. It motivates people to improve the strongest chain, not start from scratch with something effectively unproven.

The only thing that's come close is ETH in terms of usage and scrutiny and that has its own problems too.

If any other projects rose to similar prominence they'd experience the same agitation, intrigues, meddling and attempts to game and break them. Since we have no idea how most will fare most people won't bother volunteering to be the test subjects.

You're right, maybe it was the early community getting carried away BUT Satoshi never stopped this or corrected these people, the vision of what the technology could be and bring to the world was inspiring, right now it's a digital version of god, for the wealthy an asset and store of value.

I'd rather stick to gold.


Stop talking total rubbish, I've seen that EVERYONE is ignoring the fact that I've said NANO is unlikely to succeed or make ground, I simply complicated a few technical aspects of the project that it does well and people like yourself have got their knickers in a right twist about it and start with the childish name calling.

People like yourself have an attitude that everything but Bitcoin is a 'shitcoin' that's just stupid and immature and an uneducated VERY CLEAR biased view. There's many good coins and projects and many companies utilising the blockchain in new, innovative and interesting ways.

You can't just call every coin you don't like a 'shitcoin', to say there's NOTHING NANO does well is just stupid.

Will it be the next big thing, will it be the #1 digital form of crypto cash? No, probably not. People have a habbit here for putting words in my mouth and taking things out of context and rather than mature discussion and calid rebuttals it resorts to childish name calling and accusation of shilling.

Some people need to grow up and learn to accept that there's a wide variety of opinions on here and yours doesn't always have to be the right one.

This is something alt fans seem to find impossible to wrap their heads around. Most of them are code with nominal value that could vapourise any second. Anyone can come up with some bells, whistles and 'partnerships'. Anything can be faster than Bitcoin if no one's using it and you cut whatever corners to manage it, or don't even check there are corners.

Building education, acceptance and trust is the absolute monster task and I'm not convinced anything other than BTC will manage it.

Just to give a confirmation of your statement - it can be said we see the same with BTC. On the Pacific Ocean, there is one small state - called Vanuatu. Their traditional currency (and even you can find it on the flag)...is a boar tusk.

For many people, a boar's tusk has a very small value. But some of the locals found it very valuable and instead of breeding boars for food, they started breeding them for tusks and kept feeding them (any analogies between mining and "wasting electricity"?).
The older the boar, the more circles its tusks had been making and the more problematic, costly and time-consuming it was to feed it (halving, rising mining difficulty and effect on the price of BTC).
Finally, the boar tusks became something more just mere store of value - became a local currency, a symbol of wealth with great reputation (now BTC is a store of value thing, right?)

But anyway, it is nothing but a piece of bone, just as BTC is just a piece of code, right?

Curious point of fact, unless the forum's search function is failing me, satoshi never actually uttered the word "microtransaction" on this board.  And the word "micropayment" was only used on two separate occasions.  A number of utterances in this post in direct response to a person asking about sending a single satoshi (and I assume that's not quite what you meant by "microtransactions").  And again in this post quoted below, but only in regard to custodial wallets:

And (getting slightly off-topic), given what we know about custodial wallets now, it's a little surprising to read those words from satoshi, heh.  Still, those were the very early days and hindsight is always 20/20, etc.

So, with all respect, are you sure you aren't conflating satoshi's original vision with the vision of some early adopters who perhaps got a little carried away with the potential and subsequently raised your expectations higher than they otherwise would be?  Not everything lives up to baseless hype and there certainly was a lot of that back in the day.  People just naturally assumed that sending tiny amounts was viable and started shouting it from the rooftops.



It's also worth bearing in mind that when satoshi was still around, a fraction of a penny was a vastly different sum of BTC to what it is today.

Considering the current state of the crypto ecosystem and the Bitcoin market, Bitcoin is actually not living up to Satoshi's original vision and purpose for it. Bitcoin is seen as a digital asset rather than a digital currency. In as much that people use Bitcoin for their transactions  like currency, majority of people who own bitcoins consider it as an asset than a currency. 

Bitcoin was originally made to eliminate 3rd party which is succeed, but the one thing that make it not accepted widely is the fee just too high especially for small transaction, user should pay higher fee in order to get faster confirmation. While in some countries people are now using payment Apps backed by the bank which is cheaper and simple. So far for big transaction bitcoin doesn't have any issue, sending million dollars with cheaper fee, anytime, anywhere.