How many BTC users actually care about privacy? - page 2.

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Quote from: thirdprize on September 18, 2021, 10:45:19 AM

If you are going to use a big exchange in the future then you will need KYC. The only other way to get BTC will be on the black market. Would that put you off?

since bitcoin creation anyone using common sense would realize that the final destination would be KYC, so getting used to it is the best option. governments will not change their minds about KYC on the contrary the laws will only be stricter in the future

Quote from: uneng on September 20, 2021, 04:04:19 PM

you make a lot of effort and in the end don't reach to any result, as we don't really know how far the government's tentacles and their spying methods goes.

people in the end will need banks, they will need centralized exchanges, so anonymity is already becoming obsolete

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Quote from: thirdprize on September 18, 2021, 10:45:19 AM

If you are going to use a big exchange in the future then you will need KYC. The only other way to get BTC will be on the black market. Would that put you off?

Many people do not realize that they have entered a dangerous realm and easily steal their data assets because they arbitrarily verify their personal data. Nowadays, it is not possible to use large centralized exchanges. and reputable. So privacy is exposed when you are using one of them which requires KYC. If you trade P2P then there will be liquidity and fee issues. Worry more, you won't find your desired trading pair. Only holders can prevent their privacy who is not associated with any centralized exchange. Personally I would use centralized exchanges to hide my coins. it's the best way not to be bothered by the crypto laws in my country.

uneng

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There is nothing wrong about seeking for privacy, but personally I think it's like drying ice: you make a lot of effort and in the end don't reach to any result, as we don't really know how far the government's tentacles and their spying methods goes. The technology, knowledge and informations disponible for the masses are limited on purpose. The digital stuff we have access nowadays has been used by governments since a lot earlier, so what guarantee do we have countries like USA and China don't have exclusive top tier technologies able to track us through another ways (your address, wage, family roots, etc...) even though we avoid KYC verification?

I'm inclined to believe anonymity is an utopia and to try reaching it at all costs will make your experience in crypto universe less enjoyable, as there are many useful services which enforce KYC verification process.

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Quote from: firesurfer on September 20, 2021, 10:51:56 AM

Quote from: thirdprize on September 18, 2021, 10:45:19 AM

If you are going to use a big exchange in the future then you will need KYC. The only other way to get BTC will be on the black market. Would that put you off?

My money is legal and I don't mind doing KYC. I believe there are few people who really care about KYC. If they want to be safe, they can wrap their Bitcoins and trade them on distributed platforms. That is legit and satisfies their trading needs.

This is annoying when people think that if you are avoiding KYC you are using your money illegally when that is not the case! I have a right to privacy and KYC breaches my privacy right as a person. I still declare my taxes like everyone else when using peer 2 peer exchanges I am not cheating the system in any way. I hate that people like me are branded being a criminal because we try to avoid KYC. KYC is not good and if you enjoy being exploited and having your data sold off then that is your choice but do not try to legitimatize your way of doing it and trying to make us sound like criminals.

firesurfer

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Quote from: thirdprize on September 18, 2021, 10:45:19 AM

If you are going to use a big exchange in the future then you will need KYC. The only other way to get BTC will be on the black market. Would that put you off?

My money is legal and I don't mind doing KYC. I believe there are few people who really care about KYC. If they want to be safe, they can wrap their Bitcoins and trade them on distributed platforms. That is legit and satisfies their trading needs.

Zedpastin

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Quote from: DaveF on September 20, 2021, 09:18:13 AM

Another thought on this is what do we define as a user?

If someone buys BTC today during the drop @ $44,000 and intends to sell it at $50,000 when it goes back up. Are they a user or a trader?
If they are a trader they don't care about KYC since they are not going to hide the profit and will report it to the IRS, or whoever taxes income in their country, and pay their taxes and move on.

If the same person missed the $50,000 sell window and sells at $55,000 since it's still going up but they decide to keep some BTC since they made their profit and then they go and buy stuff with it are they still a trader or are they now a user. If they are a user, does privacy even matter to them now?

And so on.

A better question might be, if people do care about privacy how much effort will they put in before they say "meh, whatever" and let some of their info be known.

-Dave

The technical definition would be they are using Bitcoin even if they are only using it for a small time to withdraw back into fiat but you bring up a good point these types of people who are already slaves to fiat probably do not care about KYC because their data is already compromised by any of the services that they use with their fiat money. This is a hard metric to find out if a person is a trader or a user because I think most people who are invested in Bitcoin today are looking to withdraw back into fiat.

DaveF

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Another thought on this is what do we define as a user?

If someone buys BTC today during the drop @ $44,000 and intends to sell it at $50,000 when it goes back up. Are they a user or a trader?
If they are a trader they don't care about KYC since they are not going to hide the profit and will report it to the IRS, or whoever taxes income in their country, and pay their taxes and move on.

If the same person missed the $50,000 sell window and sells at $55,000 since it's still going up but they decide to keep some BTC since they made their profit and then they go and buy stuff with it are they still a trader or are they now a user. If they are a user, does privacy even matter to them now?

And so on.

A better question might be, if people do care about privacy how much effort will they put in before they say "meh, whatever" and let some of their info be known.

-Dave

Zedpastin

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Quote from: Twinkledoe on September 20, 2021, 06:36:02 AM

In terms of p2p, I only trust binance p2p so far. Haven't tried others. Even if they require KYC, that's fine for me. At least, I know that platform is a trusted one. I care for privacy but I won't entrust my funds to other sites which you have no insurance, in case hacking or any trouble is met by the site. But I do agree, only small percentage of crypto users really do care about their total privacy. I guess, a lot here at some point submit their kyc to their local exchange or other exchanges.

Using a p2p exchange that requires KYC defeats the point of using p2p imo. If you want to avoid mass data collection then Binance and Coinbase should be the ones to avoid. You should be directly trading with another person with minimal data collection as possible because p2p is usually more expensive in fees then centralized exchanges. I only use p2p because there is no data collection usually I would recommend changing to a different platform and avoid giving your information up. I am not sure why Binance has one of the best reputations for exchanges because imo they have been one of the worst at handling compromised coins and have made mistakes which should not be happening for a exchange which holds millions of dollars worth of Bitcoin on their platform.

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Quote from: Twinkledoe on September 20, 2021, 06:36:02 AM

In terms of p2p, I only trust binance p2p so far.

Why? What have they done to earn your trust? Binance have been hacked for coins on more than one occasion, and they've also been hacked for thousands of users' KYC information.

Quote from: Twinkledoe on September 20, 2021, 06:36:02 AM

I care for privacy but I won't entrust my funds to other sites which you have no insurance

That's the beauty of real decentralized exchanges, and not the fake marketing ploy "DEX" that Binance runs; you don't need to entrust your funds to anyone. There are no central wallets or deposit addresses, and no one can freeze your account or seize your coins. Depending in the DEX, you put your coins in some kind of escrow - 2-of-2 between buyer and seller in the case of Bisq, decentralized smart contract-esque in the case of LocalCryptos. The exchange doesn't need to be trusted since they can't touch your coins and never request your data. Bonus points if they are open source as well.

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Quote from: Zedpastin on September 20, 2021, 05:45:46 AM

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on September 20, 2021, 05:35:13 AM

As someone who has only ever traded peer to peer, and has never be scammed, phished, hacked, or otherwise lost coins even once, i would argue that peer to peer is far safer than trusting a centralized third party completely with both your data and your coins.

At least by using peer to peer you are reducing the amount you can lose. If you have a bad experience with one trader then you can find a different trader and only lose the amount that you were trading. If a exchange exit scams you will lose all the money that you have stored on that exchange and they could sell your data as well. Of course you should not be storing all your Bitcoin on a exchange and should only store what you intend on trading but I bet most people do not listen to this advice and store all of it because it is easier.

In terms of p2p, I only trust binance p2p so far. Haven't tried others. Even if they require KYC, that's fine for me. At least, I know that platform is a trusted one. I care for privacy but I won't entrust my funds to other sites which you have no insurance, in case hacking or any trouble is met by the site. But I do agree, only small percentage of crypto users really do care about their total privacy. I guess, a lot here at some point submit their kyc to their local exchange or other exchanges.

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on September 20, 2021, 05:35:13 AM

As someone who has only ever traded peer to peer, and has never be scammed, phished, hacked, or otherwise lost coins even once, i would argue that peer to peer is far safer than trusting a centralized third party completely with both your data and your coins.

At least by using peer to peer you are reducing the amount you can lose. If you have a bad experience with one trader then you can find a different trader and only lose the amount that you were trading. If a exchange exit scams you will lose all the money that you have stored on that exchange and they could sell your data as well. Of course you should not be storing all your Bitcoin on a exchange and should only store what you intend on trading but I bet most people do not listen to this advice and store all of it because it is easier.

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Quote from: Dewi Aries on September 20, 2021, 03:34:02 AM

If the only option is black market

Quote from: kanayaTabitha on September 20, 2021, 03:39:33 AM

Not doing KYC on the black market doesn't mean it's more safe

Peer to peer trading is not the same as the black market, and is perfectly legal and very safe. Let's not perpetuate the nonsense that governments want us to think.

As someone who has only ever traded peer to peer, and has never be scammed, phished, hacked, or otherwise lost coins even once, i would argue that peer to peer is far safer than trusting a centralized third party completely with both your data and your coins.

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Quote from: mindrust on September 19, 2021, 12:25:44 AM

Quote from: thirdprize on September 18, 2021, 10:45:19 AM

If you are going to use a big exchange in the future then you will need KYC. The only other way to get BTC will be on the black market. Would that put you off?

Probably 99% of them don't really care. I think most people just want the number to go up and nothing else. If this was chicken shit they were trading, it wouldn't make a difference to them (as long as the number goes up). Black market/Dark market is now running mostly on Monero I heard. So, if btc traders really cared about privacy they would have moved to monero instead.

I think you are right most people who have invested into Bitcoin do not understand it or care why it could be revolutionary instead they only care about how much it is worth. I think this is confirmed by the amount of topics we have talking about the price and not the fundamentals that make Bitcoin great. This place is filled with anxiety whenever the price goes down which makes me think they do not understand why and they do not understand why Bitcoin should recover. Bitcoin is not a good crypto if you want to act anonymously and I do not think that is one of the draws to Bitcoin like you say Monero has that advantage over Bitcoin.

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Quote from: mk4 on September 18, 2021, 10:57:36 AM

Quote from: thirdprize on September 18, 2021, 10:45:19 AM

Re: How many BTC users actually care about privacy?

A very very small minority. Chances are, the majority don't even care about security(or are just totally ignorant) either. Hence why a lot of people still has their funds on Coinbase/Binance/etc.

Quote from: thirdprize on September 18, 2021, 10:45:19 AM

The only other way to get BTC will be on the black market. Would that put you off?

Depends what you mean with black market specifically. Peer-to-peer exchanges such as HodlHodl[1], LocalCryptos[2], and Bisq[3] should be totally fine.

[1] https://hodlhodl.com/
[2] https://localcryptos.com/
[3] https://bisq.network/

Very well said! The majority don't even care about security and probably they are totally ignorant, if they aren't they would learn more about how to protect themselves, and maybe they would realize how privacy can be important as well!

Nice point with mentioning peer-to-peer exchanges! Who searches will find a way to bypass the KYC rule... I don't use exchanges and casinos (where I am mostly active online) that have a mandatory KYC rule... who cares about them, I just delete them from my browser and forget about them!

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It's not that people don't care, it's that there aren't any alternatives, especially when it comes to KYC. A lot has been discussed on this forum and around the cryptoverse on how bad KYC is when it comes to privacy, and that might spark some future development that could bring about more secure options, but for now, KYC is still the norm.

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It doesn't really matter how many, because there's definitely few of them, and it's not that worrisome that there's only a few that cares about their privacy, people will that are in here for the profit will eventually learn about caring for their privacy.

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I gave this a lot of thought over the years,,, and I have to admit, I care about a certain amount of privacy, but I do not (yet) have the compulsion to keep every single thing private.

My BTC address for example is public, and I do KYC on one or two exchanges (because forced to) but if possible I try very hard not to give my documents elsewhere because the legal situation in my country is not clear.

I like that BTC does give you freedom to expand or contract on your privacy

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Quote from: thirdprize on September 18, 2021, 10:45:19 AM

If you are going to use a big exchange in the future then you will need KYC. The only other way to get BTC will be on the black market. Would that put you off?

Not doing KYC on the black market doesn't mean it's more safe and maybe it could be more dangerous because black market sites usually are planted with phising or malware that could damage our PC or even could access our PC if we are not careful clicking anything on the websites and they could steal our wallet.
I will definitely do KYC in a big and trustful exchange, there are a lot of good exchange with exposed CEO and teams, so if we know the owner of the exchange why it's so bad if the owner know the user ? i think it's normal to know each other in any business, except we are doing a money laundrying or doing anything wrong of getting the cryptocurrency.

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Quote from: thirdprize on September 18, 2021, 10:45:19 AM

If you are going to use a big exchange in the future then you will need KYC. The only other way to get BTC will be on the black market. Would that put you off?

I think a very small population of our community is concern about privacy nowadays. Most exchangers really require KYC, hence, we have no other option but to adhere to the rules and policies that our chosen exchanger imposes. Otherwise, our movement in trading such as buying and selling cryptocurrency coins will be limited. There are certain categories on which we may opt to verify our account, if you are uncomfortable of undergoing KYC, then don't do it. But also know the possible consequences if you won't undergo such. It's just really a matter of sacrificing for the short-term or long-term. We just need to choose our hard. There are risks and disadvantages in both options anyway.

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Quote from: thirdprize on September 18, 2021, 10:45:19 AM

If you are going to use a big exchange in the future then you will need KYC. The only other way to get BTC will be on the black market. Would that put you off?

If the only option is black market, i will prefer to do KYC. But there are some people who really insist if not want to to KYC, i think it is not a problem because there a lot of Decentralized exchange that can be use. If in my country, there are some local seller that accept bitcoin and people in here can trade it to fiat. So it can directly sold without access any exchanges.

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