How Much Fee is Too Low for Bitcoin Now?

NotATether

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Quote from: ContentWriter on June 23, 2024, 01:55:19 PM

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on June 23, 2024, 01:44:44 PM

You should probably stop using Atomic wallet. They're simply not to be trusted anymore.

As for your question, then you should use mempool.space as a reference next time (assuming the wallet you're using does not estimate the fees accurately. Electrum does a good job at that).

Is sat/vb the same as sat/b? Atomic wallet uses sat/bite but what I see at Mempool is sat/vB.

No, sat/b is the unit used for legacy transactions (transactions with all legacy inputs), and sat/vb is used for segwit transactions (at least one segwit input in the transaction). That is because the two types of transactions have different formats so the Segwit version excludes witness data from the fee calculation - which contains the script signatures - causing the fee to go down.

Cricktor

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The value for "Purging" is the fee rate that won't make it into a default mempool of 300MB or will be evicted from it due to overflow and presence of enough higher paying transactions than can fit in such a default mempool.

See explanation in documentation of mempool.space: https://mempool.space/docs/faq#how-big-is-mempool-used-by-mempool-space

While I look regularly at mempool.space, so far I never noticed the absence of the "Purging" metric. Well, not an addict to monitor it every few minutes... I certainly miss some of their changes and updates of the website. It's evolving quite nicely.

Pmalek

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Quote from: ranochigo on July 24, 2024, 02:35:21 AM

That is the minimum fee for the transactions to be relayed by the default Bitcoin Core instance. This is consistent with my node as well. None of the transactions are being bumped out of the mempool because the current mempool size is well below the limit for the default implementation. 1sat/vbyte is the minimum relay fee provided that there is still space in the mempool.

I know that 1 sat/vByte is the minimum default relay fee, but I thought that Mempool.space changed something in its UI. I am used to seeing a purging rate. It wasn't there this morning, so I thought they removed it. Now it's back and saying 2.25 sat/vByte as I am writing.

But I understand now how Mempool.space works. If there is still space in their mempool, the website will display the information "Minimum fee: 1 sat/vByte." If the mempool is full, they change this to whatever the current purging rate is.

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Quote from: Pmalek on July 24, 2024, 02:14:02 AM

Transactions of around 3 sat/vByte wouldn't get purged right now. They wouldn't even get purged at 2 sats currently. I am not sure what is going on with Mempool.space. They used to show information about their purging rate. They seem to have removed that or replaced it with a line saying, "Minimum fee."

That is the minimum fee for the transactions to be relayed by the default Bitcoin Core instance. This is consistent with my node as well. None of the transactions are being bumped out of the mempool because the current mempool size is well below the limit for the default implementation. 1sat/vbyte is the minimum relay fee provided that there is still space in the mempool.

Pmalek

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Quote from: Sandra_hakeem on July 22, 2024, 12:54:22 PM

I'll be damned if this is true but, for the most part, it gets purged?

Transactions of around 3 sat/vByte wouldn't get purged right now. They wouldn't even get purged at 2 sats currently. I am not sure what is going on with Mempool.space. They used to show information about their purging rate. They seem to have removed that or replaced it with a line saying, "Minimum fee." As we speak, we have blocks being mined with some transactions paying between 3-4 sat/vByte. Take a look at the last block.

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Quote from: NotATether on July 02, 2024, 03:08:40 AM

Anything less than 8 sats/vbyte I guess.

It's been quite a long time I made any BTC tnxs. 8 sats/vbyte - though it falls in-between a "no priority" in a congested mempool - and BTC is at $68k? it's quite a good time to be alive! ..

Quote from: Pmalek on July 22, 2024, 06:24:46 AM

A lot of the time, you would get a next-block confirmation at that rate. Even transactions as low as 3.2 and 3.3 sats/vByte were confirmed in the last two days.

I'll be damned if this is true but, for the most part, it gets purged?

Pmalek

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Quote from: virasog on July 21, 2024, 12:37:42 PM

Right now, even 4 or 5 sat/vbyte may be good enough to get your bitcoin transactions confirmed. Don't know how many days will this last for but this is a really low fee something which is very rare to see these days.

4 sats/vByte was enough for a quick confirmation throughout the whole weekend. A lot of the time, you would get a next-block confirmation at that rate. Even transactions as low as 3.2 and 3.3 sats/vByte were confirmed in the last two days.

Quote from: virasog on July 21, 2024, 12:37:42 PM

He is active on the forum but may not be active on this thread.

That settles it then. If he still had problems, he would be here asking how to fix it.

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Quote from: NotATether on July 02, 2024, 03:08:40 AM

Anything less than 8 sats/vbyte I guess.

Right now, even 4 or 5 sat/vbyte may be good enough to get your bitcoin transactions confirmed. Don't know how many days will this last for but this is a really low fee something which is very rare to see these days.
I am thinking of consolidating my tx's too even though it is not a much needed but still everyone should do it to save fees.

Quote from: Pmalek on July 09, 2024, 06:16:40 AM

Several weeks have passed since you created this thread. Did you make the transaction? Everything good?

He is active on the forum but may not be active on this thread.

Pmalek

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If you still haven't moved your bitcoin, now is a good time. The fees have been on the lower end for a few days already. Please get rid of that horrible Atomic Wallet if you are still using it, and move to a proper wallet, which doesn't smell of garbage and scams.

Several weeks have passed since you created this thread. Did you make the transaction? Everything good?

NotATether

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Anything less than 8 sats/vbyte I guess.

I am quite surprised that we have managed to get fees that are this low, even with all of the torrent of Ordinals and Runes. In fact I think most of the transactions at this level are still Runes but they are using reasonable fees.

Maybe it's because the not-so-recent FUD by the governments all over the place made a depression in Bitcoin holdings/transaction activity.

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Quote from: ContentWriter on June 23, 2024, 01:43:40 PM

How do I calculate it? I had a btc tx that confirmed after more than a week. I intend to send another from Atomic wallet to Electrum but want to lower the fee. How much sats is too low?

I think you should move all your funds from the Atomic wallet to the Electrum wallet as the Atomic wallet is not trustworthy.

And as far as the tx fee is concerned, you need to monitor https://mempool.space/ and check the current fees.
At the moment, even if send with 11-12 Sat/vbyte, it will get confirmed in a responsible time. Mempool fee at the moment are good enough to move your funds.

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Despite the fact that Atomic Wallet is mostly closed-source and their "so-called" internal investigations of their most recent hack didn't yield anything but merely where likely only fog candles to distract victims and others of what's going on, I would never use Atomic Wallet again (I did very briefly in the past for some fork coins of Bitcoin).

There are scam accusations but it seems publishing of further details is currently suspended.

Quote

Rumours have long circulated about the questionable practices of Changelly, and their alleged connections to hitbtc.com Minergate, Bytecoin, Changenow, Atomic wallet, and Freewallet. ...

Stay away and don't use Atomic Wallet, the way the people behind this product behave is extremely shady and to me a very bright and big red flag.

dkbit98

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Quote from: ContentWriter on June 23, 2024, 01:43:40 PM

How do I calculate it? I had a btc tx that confirmed after more than a week. I intend to send another from Atomic wallet to Electrum but want to lower the fee. How much sats is too low?

Using 1-5 sat/vB is way to low and I would not risk using that fee right now, but it is best to check out mempool.space for current fee estimations.
There are several good tools you can use for calculating fees based on your address type and number of inputs you have in specific transaction, but I think that best one is made by Jameson Lopp.

Bitcoin Transaction Size Calculator:
https://jlopp.github.io/bitcoin-transaction-size-calculator/

Transaction size calculator:
https://bitcoinops.org/en/tools/calc-size/

Bitcoin Fee Calculator:
https://coinb.in/#fees

Mia Chloe

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Quote from: EL MOHA on June 23, 2024, 06:55:51 PM

The best thing is to use sat/vbyte to avoid any confusion, so atomic wallet still using the sat/byte is already a red flag to me to stop using them

I really don't think that it's a red flag. Although I haven't made use of atomic wallet before I'm certain that picking a suitable fee for your transaction depends on the users understanding of the mempool and congestions , as well as if the wallet allows full customization of fees.

After this correction you and _act_ made I decided to look it up on the forum and here is what I found;

Quote from: BlackHatCoiner on May 17, 2021, 10:10:30 AM

Quote from: tyz on May 17, 2021, 10:01:56 AM

sat/byte

This means that for every byte your transaction is, you'll pay the analogous satoshis.

Quote from: tyz on May 17, 2021, 10:01:56 AM

sat/WU

“WU” stands for “weight units”. After the SegWit activation in 2017, it has replaced bytesize as a measure of how much space transactions take when put into blocks. While a block can be up to 1MB, its weight is 4 million WU. Using SegWit reduces your transaction's WU size.

Quote from: tyz on May 17, 2021, 10:01:56 AM

sat/vByte

For legacy transactions: Byte = vByte. One virtual byte is equal with 4 WU. Essentially, sat/vByte tells you how many satoshis you'll pay for every 4 weight units of your transaction. Obviously, it'll be reduced if you're using SegWit.

You should read this: Weight units

It turns out that the calculations you make use of really doesn't matter as long as you use the right values for the transaction. Most wallets make use of sat/byte for their calculations as a default unit.

_act_

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Quote from: BitMaxz on June 23, 2024, 06:16:27 PM

About the fee in legacy using the mempool.space recommended fee uses vbyte so you might need to double your fee because segwit(vbyte) size is smaller than in the legacy wallet.

For better fee estimation you can try to calculate them manually you can use this tool https://jlopp.github.io/bitcoin-transaction-size-calculator/ you can find the result at the bottom of the calculate button.
or use the tool mentions above from coinb.in

Assuming the fee rate for high priority on the mempool is 10 sat/vbyte and you used 10 sat/byte on Atomic wallet, the transaction will be confirmed fast if the mempool do not increase in high fee estimation. Sat/byte is equals to sat/vbyte if it is legacy address to legacy address. Also sending from legacy address to segwit will still make 10 sat/byte to confirm fast as well.

But he should stop using Atonic wallet.

Quote from: BitMaxz on June 23, 2024, 06:16:27 PM

A much better option is if you have a backup seed of the Atomic wallet that can be used to import your wallet into the Electrum wallet because it has a better estimation fee than the Atomic wallet.
If you decide to move to Electrum don't forget to put the right derivation path while importing your Atomic wallet to Electrum the right derivation path is listed from this link below.

- https://support.atomicwallet.io/article/146-list-of-derivation-paths

No need to import the seed phrase to make a transaction just as I explained above. He should just assume the sat/byte is the same as sat/vbyte for legacy addresses. If he wants to finally move to a better wallet, Atomic wallet is a close source wallet, he should just send all his coins to an address generated on an open source wallet that is recommended like Bluewallet or Electrum.

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Quote from: ContentWriter on June 23, 2024, 01:55:19 PM

Is sat/vb the same as sat/b? Atomic wallet uses sat/bite but what I see at Mempool is sat/vB.

Atomic still use legacy address so it doesn't matter if it shows sat/B since the value would be the same if you compute it to sat/vB.
There's no 'Witness data' in transactions it create so the "Weight Unit" (WU) would be x4 of the entire transaction's size in "Bytes",
Then "vBytes" is WU/4 which will obviously result with the same value as the raw size.

Given that, go to the most recommended fee estimation site and use its recommended sat/vB fee rate even though Atomic shows sat/B.

EL MOHA

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Quote from: Mia Chloe on June 23, 2024, 03:09:10 PM

Fees are calculated in sat/byte which is actually a measurement of how much block space your transaction would occupy. And practically, the more fees you pay, the faster your transaction gets confirmed. To know the right feet to make use of, you can either make use of the mempool observer thread via the fee updates by fee buddy.

Since the soft fork that lead to SegWit address where witness data are separated/segregated from the transaction the bytes are called or calculated as vbytes where the sized in weight Units for a sat/byte transaction is divided by 4 for sat/vbytes. There for non witness data like those of legacy addresses takes up 4 weight unit/ byte and the segregated witness like Segwit addresses takes up just 1 weight unit/byte making the latter to be somewhat smaller in size because the block size of 1MB will look more like 4M weight units if vbyte is used.

The best thing is to use sat/vbyte to avoid any confusion, so atomic wallet still using the sat/byte is already a red flag to me to stop using them

BitMaxz

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Quote from: ContentWriter on June 23, 2024, 01:55:19 PM

Is sat/vb the same as sat/b? Atomic Wallet uses sat/bite but what I see at Mempool is sat/vB.

This thing makes you confused but better check your wallet if you are using legacy wallet or segwit because vbyte is for segwit wallets.

About the fee in legacy using the mempool.space recommended fee uses vbyte so you might need to double your fee because segwit(vbyte) size is smaller than in the legacy wallet.

For better fee estimation you can try to calculate them manually you can use this tool https://jlopp.github.io/bitcoin-transaction-size-calculator/ you can find the result at the bottom of the calculate button.
or use the tool mentions above from coinb.in

A much better option is if you have a backup seed of the Atomic wallet that can be used to import your wallet into the Electrum wallet because it has a better estimation fee than the Atomic wallet.
If you decide to move to Electrum don't forget to put the right derivation path while importing your Atomic wallet to Electrum the right derivation path is listed from this link below.

- https://support.atomicwallet.io/article/146-list-of-derivation-paths

_act_

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Quote from: Mia Chloe on June 23, 2024, 03:09:10 PM

Fees are calculated in sat/byte which is actually a measurement of how much block space your transaction would occupy.

After the introduction of segwit and P2SH, sat/byte is no more used for estimations. What that is used now is sat/vbyte. Virtual byte will make the transaction smaller and have lower fee than sat/byte unless you are sending and receiving with bitcoin address that begins with 1.

Quote from: khaled0111 on June 23, 2024, 03:38:51 PM

Atomic wallet creates only legacy addresses and that's why it uses sat/b as the measurement unit for fee rates.

The wallet is close source. It has the history of hack that over millions of dollars were lost. The wallet is still using bitcoin address that begins with 1. Why are people still using this wallet outdated wallet.

khaled0111

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The wallet app you use to send or to receive coins doesn't really matter. What matters if the wallet you use to send your coins supports fee customisation.
Not sure about Atomic wallet (I don't remember i've ever used it) but if it supports it and you want your transaction to get confirmed ASAP then just use what mempool.space suggests under high priority.
Currently, 10 sat/vb is more than enough for a east confirmation.

Atomic wallet creates only legacy addresses and that's why it uses sat/b as the measurement unit for fee rates.

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