How much human supervision do you believe AI needs for crypto trading? - page 2.

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Quote from: Out of mind on December 13, 2023, 09:47:52 AM

Currently, in this digital world, most AI is being used only for the purpose of predicting all things. But now a lot of things are being done by this AI and easily people are doing their tasks which they are getting solved by this bot. But how true this AI can tell about crypto trading is very difficult to say because it might not be possible for AI to do it. If AI was used in trading then people would have become millionaires and big men by now but till date I have not seen anyone trading using it. Trading using AI may not give accurate predictions due to which users do not trust these predictions. I think trading by AI is not successful, and it can't predict and AI provides better solutions for other tasks.

The AI was the advantage to many field,but my personal opinion is the AI will not applicable to the bitcoin and cryptocurrency trading.Because the market of crypto currency was unpredictable one in long term,So the trader should do the trading by the manual analysis of the market flow.If AI is enough to make money in the crypto trading means all the people will start to do the crypto trading and they won’t go to their regular job.The trader should spend some time to analysis the price movement in the past and current market.

Quote from: South Park on December 17, 2023, 02:09:08 PM

What we are seeing is that as more AIs are trading the markets, making profits in them is becoming harder as the level of the competition is raising, which in turn requires a better AI in a never ending cycle, so it would not surprise me if in the future the question was how much AI supervision needs a human so they can trade this market? As even if an AI was not as adaptable as a human, its ability to take decisions in a split of a second is simply too good for most humans to overcome.

The AI was supervising many fields including IT sector by the automation of manual tasks.But the current crypto market trading can’t be done using the available AI tool,may be in future some one will discover the exact AI which give profit by doing the trade in automation.But the trader can use their own skills to earn in the current crypto currency trading.

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Quote from: R100K-Martin-Lunger on December 09, 2023, 09:55:55 AM

I know my answer but I'm just trying to figure out where you guys stand on AI and crypto trading. The usual argument against AI is it can't make nuanced decisions - at least for now. But how much supervision do you think sophisticated bots require to make trading decisions effectively? And how long do you think it'll take to get to the point where AI doesn't need that supervision?

AI is artificial intelligence which cannot actually make itself smarter and all the decisions made by AI are currently 100% programmed by its creator. Well in trading, AI usually becomes a bot to help traders buy or sell automatically and usually many beginners use AI bots to help them in their trading activities. For the development of AI in the future, i think it will not be dangerous for humans but quite dangerous for traders who are dependent on using AI, even though AI can make us execute more quickly and automatically, AI can make us lose more quickly because AI has no feelings in trading, that's a weakness that will always exist in AI trading bots.

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Quote from: dothebeats on December 13, 2023, 02:37:36 PM

If the AI model employed in trading can learn actively while it is trading, I can say that very minimal human supervision is needed to make sure that it stays profitable. AIs nowadays are intelligent enough to learn autonomously after being given parameters on what it should learn and what its goals should be. Every now and then, humans can intervene and fine-tune the AI, but yeah, they can do quick, on the fly decisions that most humans cannot.

Then again, a lot of traders have tried using AI alone in trading to prove a point. Even AIs get the brutal reality that trading is really, really hard and requires quick thinking and spotting trends and patterns that even experienced humans miss.

What we are seeing is that as more AIs are trading the markets, making profits with them is becoming harder as the level of the competition is raising, which in turn requires a better AI in a never ending cycle, so it would not surprise me if in the future the question was how much AI supervision needs a human so they can trade this market? As even if an AI was not as adaptable as a human, its ability to take decisions in a split of a second is simply too good for most humans to overcome.

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Quote from: Out of mind on December 13, 2023, 09:47:52 AM

Quote from: R100K-Martin-Lunger on December 09, 2023, 09:55:55 AM

I know my answer but I'm just trying to figure out where you guys stand on AI and crypto trading. The usual argument against AI is it can't make nuanced decisions - at least for now. But how much supervision do you think sophisticated bots require to make trading decisions effectively? And how long do you think it'll take to get to the point where AI doesn't need that supervision?

Currently, in this digital world, most AI is being used only for the purpose of predicting all things. But now a lot of things are being done by this AI and easily people are doing their tasks which they are getting solved by this bot. But how true this AI can tell about crypto trading is very difficult to say because it might not be possible for AI to do it. If AI was used in trading then people would have become millionaires and big men by now but till date I have not seen anyone trading using it. Trading using AI may not give accurate predictions due to which users do not trust these predictions. I think trading by AI is not successful, and it can't predict and AI provides better solutions for other tasks.

No matter how advanced it would be but still it would really be that needing that human intervention or supervision. We shouldn't really be thinking that AI would really be developed on something
which would really be far superior to humans (just like on what we are seeing on movies). If you do make yourself having that kind of expectation then better not and you would really be just that simply
making yourself that frustration or failed up basing up into those things on which you do really believe that it could exist. Just like on what the rest been saying that every information and things been
said and given out then it would really be that basing up on the informations that had been feed out.

AI for trading? It would be something useful if we are really that making use of those tools when it comes on tracking out previous prices or what are those correlated information
with it but in speaking about on trying to rely on what are the price recommendations or something in relation to it then i dont see for it to be accurate.
There's no way that you could really be able to say that it would really be something relevant and effective most of the time.

dothebeats

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If the AI model employed in trading can learn actively while it is trading, I can say that very minimal human supervision is needed to make sure that it stays profitable. AIs nowadays are intelligent enough to learn autonomously after being given parameters on what it should learn and what its goals should be. Every now and then, humans can intervene and fine-tune the AI, but yeah, they can do quick, on the fly decisions that most humans cannot.

Then again, a lot of traders have tried using AI alone in trading to prove a point. Even AIs get the brutal reality that trading is really, really hard and requires quick thinking and spotting trends and patterns that even experienced humans miss.

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I feel like AI trading is not feasible at all, I understand some people think that it's possible, after all what is the AI we have right now but machine learning, you give EVERY price point and data to AI and it learns and makes trades based on the past, deciding what follows after what and so forth. However, the thing that breaks it is the fact that just because Y happened after X in the past, and maybe 10 times, doesn't mean it will happen an 11th time, may never happen again.

AI is not ready for that, it knows what to do when something happens, and if the result is not the same then I am sorry but it will keep on failing until it learns the new way. This is why I would never allow AI to trade on my behalf, it is not going to work, even if it works for a while during the bull run and give people some hype, it is going to end up being much worse during the bear period as well, so we need a ton of human supervision to make it work and make some money with it.

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Quote from: R100K-Martin-Lunger on December 09, 2023, 09:55:55 AM

I know my answer but I'm just trying to figure out where you guys stand on AI and crypto trading. The usual argument against AI is it can't make nuanced decisions - at least for now. But how much supervision do you think sophisticated bots require to make trading decisions effectively? And how long do you think it'll take to get to the point where AI doesn't need that supervision?

Currently, in this digital world, most AI is being used only for the purpose of predicting all things. But now a lot of things are being done by this AI and easily people are doing their tasks which they are getting solved by this bot. But how true this AI can tell about crypto trading is very difficult to say because it might not be possible for AI to do it. If AI was used in trading then people would have become millionaires and big men by now but till date I have not seen anyone trading using it. Trading using AI may not give accurate predictions due to which users do not trust these predictions. I think trading by AI is not successful, and it can't predict and AI provides better solutions for other tasks.

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At least until AI can provide instructions or can do what we ask without needing supervision, but we don't know when that will happen. Currently, there are still many developers who are still researching AI so that it can be useful for humans.

A sophisticated bot does not take a long time to make trading decisions. Bots can run by themselves and collect accurate data from various sources. So we have to wait for the final result. Now there is AI that can help us in trading, but we are still the ones giving the orders.

We should wait for notification from the developers. Perhaps it won't be 5 years before there will be AI that can really help us in trading. But it would be better if you could learn analysis so that you are not too dependent on AI.

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Quote from: Lakai01 on December 09, 2023, 10:03:12 AM

Quote from: R100K-Martin-Lunger on December 09, 2023, 09:55:55 AM

[...]
And how long do you think it'll take to get to the point where AI doesn't need that supervision?

As a rule, AI no longer needs supervision even now. There was a very interesting experiment on this ... an AI was trained to shoot down airplanes under the guidance of a supervisor. After the training phase, the AI was asked what it would do first to improve. Its answer: "Kill the supervisor" Wink

To be honest, I also don't understand what AI is supposed to do in the trading sector:

Most of the data is very outdated
AI cannot predict the future ...
...If it does, bots will exploit this so quickly that it will once again just be a question of who programs the fastest bot - as is already the case with arbitrage trading.

Bolded part!

This is the main reason on why i dont really believe that AI+human integration would really be that able to resolve out such thing or having that supervision would be completely be wiped out or would be AI integrated thing on which been said that there's no way that AI could predict the future.Hence, information that been given out are basing on the things that happened in the past which its been stored into its library
on which it would really be just that normal that they would really be giving out responses basing up into those informations that had been feed out. It cant really just that be able to do things
which is really that out of its touch or something that cant be possible.

AI's existence is really that revolutionary but we do know that there are things which it is really just that good for such area but cant realyl be able to touch up
other key areas on which it isnt something that relevant no matter how advanced it would be. It would be always basing up into its data feed.

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The only advantage AI has on humans in trading is not having an emotion. People might say that AI has better decision making because of the reason that there are no emotion involve, so it can execute exactly what it's programmed. Traders who are being controlled by their emotion can't execute well in their trades and this is one of the reason why they encounter losses. Does this mean that AI is better than human? I disagree. It doesn't matter how much human supervision AI had, it can't surpass human trading.

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Quote from: R100K-Martin-Lunger on December 09, 2023, 09:55:55 AM

How much human supervision do you believe AI needs for crypto trading?

Chatbot/AI is a form of programming by humans in the sense of simulating things that have happened or things that have happened, AI is programmed for voice or text, so never use AI in carrying out crypto trading activities, even though the technology used is sophisticated.

My understanding is that there is no definite supervision for AI in justifying crypto trading, AI cannot perform tasks that have not yet occurred, such as Bitcoin price movements in seconds/minutes/hours and so on, If you don't want to lose more from crypto trading, don't ever use AI, trade using your own analysis and instinct.

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Quote from: bettercrypto on December 11, 2023, 08:54:24 PM

Quote from: R100K-Martin-Lunger on December 09, 2023, 09:55:55 AM

~

Unlike humans, there is mixed emotion when performing an actual trade on an exchange platform and analysis, which is also called; unlike AI, there is no such character that can do what is really programmed; that is all he can do. Because AI does not know which is right or wrong.

In AI or trading bots, even if they are advanced to here or good to here, I'm still not convinced that, with the current state of AI nowadays, it will be reliable to predict the market or decide my trading move. The thing is, even though AI is advanced without data, it will not function; data is what AI needs, and we know the crypto market is unpredictable; the movements in the market are undefined. That's why we humans do technical analysis and such other things to find a good position, and even if we have a position or map in the market in mind, there is still a margin of error. But AI or trading doesn't think that way; it can only analyse and make decisions based on the data it has, but with market volatility, the pattern and data will be difficult for the AI to process.

In short, I still don't rely on AI for trading, maybe in the future, because there is a possibility that as technology keeps on advancing, it's not bad to follow and use trading bots these days, as your trade is at your own risk.

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Quote from: R100K-Martin-Lunger on December 09, 2023, 09:55:55 AM

I know my answer but I'm just trying to figure out where you guys stand on AI and crypto trading. The usual argument against AI is it can't make nuanced decisions - at least for now. But how much supervision do you think sophisticated bots require to make trading decisions effectively? And how long do you think it'll take to get to the point where AI doesn't need that supervision?

First of all, when it comes to prediction here in crypto trading, even in forex trading, it is no longer the same as human prediction. In short, AI cannot make predictions in crypto trading because it can only do what is programmed.

Unlike humans, there is mixed emotion when performing an actual trade on an exchange platform and analysis, which is also called; unlike AI, there is no such character that can do what is really programmed; that is all he can do. Because AI does not know which is right or wrong.

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Quote from: R100K-Martin-Lunger on December 09, 2023, 09:55:55 AM

I know my answer but I'm just trying to figure out where you guys stand on AI and crypto trading. The usual argument against AI is it can't make nuanced decisions - at least for now. But how much supervision do you think sophisticated bots require to make trading decisions effectively? And how long do you think it'll take to get to the point where AI doesn't need that supervision?

Can AI read articles on bitcoin media and analyze them? Can AI understand what effect will Elon Musk's tweets have on crypto market? Can AI understand what effect will El Salvador's actions have on crypto market? AI can't understand, even a human can't understand with certainty the result of certain activity. I think that AIs are algorithms that follow certain strategy and not an intelligence, at the moment AI isn't very advanced.
Btw if we achieve a level of AI development where AI will be able to analyze many things and form its own opinion or make a decision, then if we use those AIs in trading, do you think that everyone will profit? Someone has to lose in order to win. AI vs AI looks too curious for me.

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Quote from: South Park on December 10, 2023, 01:53:04 PM

[...]
but make no mistake an advanced AI can trade the markets without the supervision of a human, it is just that we do not have access to that technology, and it is unlikely that we will as who will give away the technology to make themselves a fortune on the markets.

This is already happening. The bots that execute the orders are also completely unsupervised and act at their own discretion. This has already led to flash crashes on the stock markets, when bots have spiraled into a cascade of selling.

AI is a great buzzword here, but ... what do you expect from AI in this context?
The bots are already very advanced and can react to market situations almost in real time and make decisions independently. AI would hardly bring any improvements here, especially since they are usually trained on very old data.

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Quote from: R100K-Martin-Lunger on December 09, 2023, 09:55:55 AM

I know my answer but I'm just trying to figure out where you guys stand on AI and crypto trading. The usual argument against AI is it can't make nuanced decisions - at least for now. But how much supervision do you think sophisticated bots require to make trading decisions effectively? And how long do you think it'll take to get to the point where AI doesn't need that supervision?

I do not know why people assume AI has not been around the markets for decades now, I can assure you trading firms have obtained that technology long ago and they have been improving their algorithms for a long time now, it is just that now thanks to the new interest and fears that AI has generated people are giving it more attention, but make no mistake an advanced AI can trade the markets without the supervision of a human, it is just that we do not have access to that technology, and it is unlikely that we will as who will give away the technology to make themselves a fortune on the markets.

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Quote from: Tigerheart3026 on December 10, 2023, 01:12:15 PM

[...]
machine can not make decision in accurately, people's are trying to get new experience by using ai tools.

That's not true, no. Algorithms and bots play an incredibly important role in trading, both on traditional stock markets and here in the crypto trading sector. It even goes so far that the best arbitrage algorithms (i.e. those that are the fastest) change hands for incredibly large sums of money. This even goes as far as that around 70% of all executed trades are done by bots nowadays:

Quote

Algo trading bots, or algorithmic trading robots, are computer programs that use complex algorithms to rapidly buy and sell stocks on the financial markets. Today, over 70% of all trades are made by algo bots, and they're reshaping how the markets function.

Source

Machines are simply much better traders than humans, if only because they are not influenced by emotions. What machines are not (yet) so good at, however, is recognizing large correlations at a glance and drawing conclusions from them, e.g. when analysing charts from the past. Here, however, I think AI-based algorithms could definitely be an asset in the foreseeable future.

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Quote from: Rehan Zakir on December 09, 2023, 01:10:12 PM

The AI bots are very efficient and accurate. Because theses bots are trained by machine learning algorithms to analyze what is the best decision at the run time.
I tried the bots for trading. Their performance is very good. Now, there are many crypto currency exchanges that are providing bots trading.

although i have not yet experienced with ai bot trading so i have no own opinion that can i share with you, but i have heard from many that is not still plays vital role in trading,
machine can not make decision in accurately, people's are trying to get new experience by using ai tools.

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AI isn't perfect. You'll still see some nuances about the details or information that it is providing. While I am not that type of person that worshiping it but I guess that most of these techs are still in need of an "operator" behind it. It's different from the developers of it but soon, with the guidance of these operators like developing them into actual trading since we've got already bots that does the trading easy.

If it's about the decision making and doing all analyses and strategies, there's still some gray area on that. We may see it soon or there's still not enough resources to develop one that can make us all rich and will all rely our trades to them.

Like we just fund our trading accounts and they'll do the trading for us and make that million bucks in less than a month, sounds interesting but kind of too good to be true.

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Quote from: Rehan Zakir on December 09, 2023, 01:10:12 PM

The AI bots are very efficient and accurate. Because theses bots are trained by machine learning algorithms to analyze what is the best decision at the run time.
I tried the bots for trading. Their performance is very good. Now, there are many crypto currency exchanges that are providing bots trading.

Trading with AI is very positive and it all depends on how we want it. We can make money by trading in the market with the use of artificial intelligence but this kind of trades is only for the sport Market since it does not involves trading the future. One of the problems artificial intelligence can Encarta is predictions which might not be accurate but what is needed is for us to know how we are going to adjust our trades and make sure we do the normal thing.

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