Topic: How much is too much? (premine) (Read 1180 times)

Hey mark I totally agree with you, especially the part about litecoin being resilient. I run the litecoin board over on reddit and watching doge was really weird. Its still weird. The first time it halved the hashrate did not really go down, there really is an overnight scrypt-NUKE for anyone savvy enough to market a coins launch. And hopefully ltc is a fallout shelter that can tank all

Solcoin is a scan anyway, it would be stupid to put money into it as PWNing it is trivial.

The first thing you need before even launching a blockchain based coins is a means of securing the blockchain.

Without that, a blockchain is simply idiotic, some other method of securing a ledger must be used instead.

SO forget blockchains unless you have an insanely massive mining farm you are willing to deiciate totally to seucring your new chain.

Blockchains are insanely expensive to secure.

Go clone RIpple or something, anything, just find a way to have a SECURE ledger.

Instead of this endless stream of total scams, the totally insecure blockchains.

It is criminally irresponsible to advise anyone to throw money inso such insanely insecure garbage.

It is, in short, a scam. Pretending the thing is something other than an insanely insecure piece of crap. It is deliberate fraud.

-MarkM-

Depends entirely on what is done with the premine. Forexample Solcoin...... two premine blocks with the reason to avoid fork at once in case the coin was hit hard by miners, and those only two blocks they gave to people as thanks for participation. So no premine for the devs BUT the devs now have no official coins to facuets etc so if they want to promote they need to start mining. There's an up and there's a down with no premine and it comes down to if it's greed or if it's for the community. 1 block of greed is 1 too much, 1 block of community premine is fine.

Why would nobody support a coin without a premine? People should refuse to mine or use a coin that was.


These coins only serve one purpose: To make their devs a bit of cash. People need to stop mining crap and they'll soon disappear.

Damn near every coin that comes out is a scam, even if it has no pre-mine.

They are basically trying to scam people into putting money into a totally worthless wet paper bag for attackers to steal.

There is pretty much no chance they will ever be able to secure the blockchain so the whole concept is broken from the start.

Even DOGE has pathetically insecure blockchain, all that DOGE teaches us is how much hashing power an attacker could pop up with for free overnight simply by launching a meme. One "Hey wow lets PWN ALL the blockchains" meme could PWN them all, maybe even DOGE, except maybe litecoin (since DOGE did not manage to pop up overnight with enough hashing power to PWN litecoin).

So what DOGE showed is that it itself and all coins with less hashing power than it are all just scams sitting there offering people's money to who-ever comes along and PWNs the lot of them almost overnight.

-MarkM-

I could not agree more. But brings me back to the no one supports the ones without haha

Anything greater than zero is too much.

True. But how many coins that come out actually have any real value? They're all pretty much just Litecoin clones with absolutely nothing to offer in terms of technological innovation.

For all the shitcoins put out there, there's so much noise that in order for one shitcoin to get more attention than another shitcoin, there has to be some kind of bribery going on.

What was the last coin to come out with any kind of useful technological innovation that is actually useful? Damned if I know.

2% max, although it really depends WHAT is done with the premine.

Check out Noblecoin and DigiByte for some examples of coins that have a transparant premine. In my opinion this helps the value of the coin since it motivates the devs and provides them with funds to get stuff done.

Not all premined coins are scams, people who think that are just ignorant.

If you need bounties and such to bribe people to pretend to support your coin you are doing it wrong in the first place.

make a truly good currency and people will spring up all around starting services of all kinds, accepting it in their shops and so on and so on.

Scamming the idiots who fall for the premine/instamine scams to bribe people who don't want to support your garbage but like a quick buck will just get you people firing up something momentarily to get the bounty, which they dump thus driving down the value (as if it had any in the first place) of your crapcoin and shutting that down to make space for a new bounty-earning fly by night thing to grab the next garbagecoin's pre-mined bounty and so on.

Folks will just make a business of changing what coin they are an explorer or whatever of day to day as fast as new garbage premined crap comes along and dumping the crap as fast as possible hoping the pennies they get from dumping it will cover the few minutes it takes then to change the name of their service from shitcoin whatever to crapcoin whatever.

So basically you just become more fodder feeding more scammers. How many of these peices of crap you planing to churn out per day?

-MarkM-

I've always wondered the same thing.
I think around 5% should be at the very most limit.
1% dev and 4% promotional.

1% doesn't sound much, but in the overall scheme of things...it's actually quite a lot, depending how much work the devs actually put in. It's not like the devs can't mine themselves once they get their 1%...so there's always room to grow still.

Transparency doesn't seem to matter either

So you're a dev without massive mining equipment and have zero premine... Congrats. Your coin dies because you can't afford to promote it or to pay bounties for explorers or pools or anything.

There's no way to get around a premine sanely unless you have some very good backing.

Releasing a serious coin isn't free. You have designers, coders, and other people that need to put food on the table, and unless there's some kind of incentive, why should they do anything?

I'm not sure what a decent premine number is, but I think transparency is the key. e.g. Here's a hypothetical example that's a bit extreme, but still within the realms of sanity:

Premine: 7.5%

Faucets & Giveaways: 4.5%
0.5% funded to faucets & giveaways per month for 9 months

Bounties: 2%
0.25% for short term bounties, e.g. pools, clients, design, forums, etc.
0.25% for mid term bounties, e.g. Android wallet, advertising, promotions, etc.
1.5% for long term bounties, advertising, promotion, foundation funding, possible hardware funding, etc.

Dev Team: 1%
1% paid to dev team over time, e.g. 1 year. (Creates problems for year 2, but by then hopefully the coin will be successful, and the foundation can hire the dev team, etc.) 

With a large amount given out to the community at large, but spread over time, it would keep people coming in and adopting the coin. But what a proper balance is... Tricky.

Still... I think transparency is the key.

I think premines are a detriment to the miners and the traders hence

http://www.cash-coin.org/

But I just don't know if fair coins can compete which is just odd.

the ratio of successful  non-premined to premined is in favor to non-premine.  seriously, premined coins do well up until an exchange excepts them. then they dump into oblivion . most of the time miner , because they are afraid that the Dev will dump..so

Yea but at what point does it become to much? Is it with a % of coins? Or with it's BTC value? Or just plain amount of coins? What do you think is a fair amount to be premined?

this. Plus i have no issues with the devs keeping some for themselves. Being open and upfront about it goes a long ways.

I thinks nearly any amount is ok (within reason), if the devs are transparent about it - and there's a public ledger showing how and where funds are used.

The main issue with premine is the infamous pump 'n' dump coins - a large unaccounted for premine will make experienced users nervous, and unlikely to invest.

K.

People have unrealistic expectations. While some premines are definitely over the top, a smaller premine is needed if you want to see the coin actually supported and be something other than a pump and dump. People cry about any premine but yet expect devs to fully support their coins, market it and do everything else so that they personally benefit from it but make a huge stink because the devs want compensation for their time. Can't have it both ways. I'm OK with premines if it's used to support the coins and compensate the devs fairly.

This is a great question and no one will have the answer because no dev team is the same. With that said, there should be some basic rules that need to be followed and those can be created by consensus data. Any opinion on what should be this or that is worthless unless collectively agreed upon. I think devs need to weigh the scales and choose wisely without alienating adoption and that can be different with every coin.