How safe are offline wallets? - page 2.

Lucius

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Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on November 28, 2022, 07:34:12 AM

Such a system is not that safe.

No desktop or mobile hot wallet is safe, but I guess we can agree that it is safer to have a watch-only wallet than the standard version on the computer we use every day? If some malware has already compromised the OP seed, in most cases its wallet balance would already be zero, and surely the chances of that are less if you remove that hot wallet from your computer.

I just suggested him a completely free option so that he can sleep somewhat peacefully, but he should definitely think about a relatively cheap investment in a hardware wallet, or even better an airgapped device.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Lucius on November 28, 2022, 06:51:13 AM

All you need to do is check whether your backup is correct and in a safe place, and then start the process of creating a watch-only wallet with which you can then have complete insight into your transactions and deposit addresses, but without the risk that you can in any way be hacked.

Such a system is not that safe. By using a seed phrase which was generated in a hot wallet on an online machine, and stored for an unknown amount of time on the same online machine, then the seed phrase has still been exposed to the internet and any malware on OP's device, even if he now deletes it from his device and sets up a watch only wallet instead. And indeed, simply deleting the wallet file does not completely scrub it from the hard drive, and it could still be recovered. Not to mention that without an airgapped computer he can't make any transactions without importing his seed phrase back on to his online machine and again risking exposing it.

If you want a secure watch only wallet, then the corresponding seed phrase needs to be generated on a permanently airgapped machine and kept permanently airgapped itself.

Lucius

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@Ultegra134, there is an option to still have Electrum on your computer, but at the same time you don't have any risk for your BTC. All you need to do is check whether your backup is correct and in a safe place, and then start the process of creating a watch-only wallet with which you can then have complete insight into your transactions and deposit addresses, but without the risk that you can in any way be hacked.

What you should pay attention to in that case is that if you want to recover the standard wallet again, be especially careful with your seed in the sense that you don't have a keylogger or some other dangerous malware on your PC.

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Quote from: Ultegra134 on November 27, 2022, 02:31:46 PM

I'm currently using Electrum on my laptop; however, for whatever reason, I don't feel quite safe or comfortable practically having my bitcoin stored on my computer. How safe is a wallet like Electrum? If we suppose that my computer is infected with malware (or a Trojan horse, you name it), can someone access my wallet and send funds to another address? Is it possible to have the wallet.dat file stolen and accessed even though it's protected with a password?

I generally feel a little paranoid after being infected with a fake Google Sheets extension. I didn't lose anything of value, but I don't feel comfortable having my funds on the computer I'm using. Ever since, I've stopped downloading any pirated software and performed regular checks, but it's still unknown how I got infected. What other options do I have? Using a separate computer or hard drive for my wallet? The best option, I guess, is a hardware wallet.

Your feelings are understandable and a hardware wallet can return a sense of comfort. Judging by the fact that you are considering this decision, it can be assumed that you are leaning towards using the HW. So make a bold decision and don't expect the approval of others. The combination of Electrum + hardware wallet will be reliable, and if you want more, then use this bundle on another PC, which will only be used to work with crypto currencies. A restful sleep will be guaranteed for you.

Today is the last day of the Black Friday sale and you can order hardware wallet at a 15-30% discount depending on the brand. Check out this section to find out more: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=261.0

pooya87

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The correct terminology for a wallet like Electrum is "desktop wallet" not "offline wallet".

And it is only as safe as the environment you are using it in. If you have installed it on an online computer (or any system that has been connected to the internet in the past even if it is offline from now on) it is considered less safe because your system could be infected and your keys could be compromised.

The only true security is in cold storage which is where your wallet is created and stored in an air gap environment. The easiest solution is hardware wallets which I consider semi-cold since there still is a small chance to be compromised. The best solution is a completely offline PC that is cut off from the rest of the world.

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: Ultegra134 on November 27, 2022, 02:31:46 PM

How safe is a wallet like Electrum?

It's not that Electrum is unsafe - it's that your entire set up is unsafe.

The current version of Electrum has no critical bugs or vulnerabilities which could directly lead to your coins being stolen. In that sense, it is a very safe piece of software. However, it cannot protect you against malicious parties attacking your computer, stealing your wallet file, planting clipboard malware, keyloggers, or other malware, and so on. You are storing funds in a hot wallet and so no wallet software, regardless of how good it is, can possibly mitigate against all potential threats.

I must say that downloading pirated software on the same computer that stores a bitcoin hot wallet is a particularly dangerous move. As is using anything Google related.

Quote from: Ultegra134 on November 27, 2022, 02:31:46 PM

What other options do I have?

A hardware wallet, or a cold airgapped wallet.

jackg

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An offline and airgapped.machine is one of the safest options, followed by a hardware wallet, then a 2 of 2 multisig with two online machines running different operating systems (such as a computer and a phone) and then a single wallet on an online machine like electrum.

If you're prone to installing malicious software.a keylogger is all that's needed to find your password and those are hideable enough. If your wallet file is discovered and is encrypted with at least 4-8 randomly generated words or 13 randomly generated alphanumeric characters then you're safe having your wallet file intercepted.

If you're storing more than $700, I think a hardware wallet should be a no brainer and a go to for storing funds. If you've got less then you will have to weigh up the consequences of storing your funds in hot wallets than using hardware and see what you're best doing.

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: Ultegra134 on November 27, 2022, 02:31:46 PM

I don't feel quite safe or comfortable practically having my bitcoin stored on my computer.

Your bitcoin isn't stored on your computer. Your bitcoin is on the blockchain and the keys you need to access your bitcoin are on your computer.

Quote from: Ultegra134 on November 27, 2022, 02:31:46 PM

How safe is a wallet like Electrum?

Electrum is an open-source wallet and there isn't anything hidden from the users. If it's used in the correct way, it's completely secure.

Quote from: Ultegra134 on November 27, 2022, 02:31:46 PM

If we suppose that my computer is infected with malware (or a Trojan horse, you name it), can someone access my wallet and send funds to another address?

Yes. That's possible. Your safety depends on how you use electrum. There's always the possibility that your computer gets comprised.

Quote from: Ultegra134 on November 27, 2022, 02:31:46 PM

Using a separate computer or hard drive for my wallet? The best option, I guess, is a hardware wallet.

If you want to be 100% secure, you should use electrum on an air-gapped device.

Charles-Tim

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You can go for Electrum cold storage or just buy a hardware wallet for more security. Online wallet can download and install malware which can be used to steal your coins. You can also use a paper wallet and keep it completely offline.

The advice has always been to have your coins on a cold wallet which are safer. It is true to not keep large amount of coin on an online wallet.

Ultegra134

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I'm currently using Electrum on my laptop; however, for whatever reason, I don't feel quite safe or comfortable practically having my bitcoin stored on my computer. How safe is a wallet like Electrum? If we suppose that my computer is infected with malware (or a Trojan horse, you name it), can someone access my wallet and send funds to another address? Is it possible to have the wallet.dat file stolen and accessed even though it's protected with a password?

I generally feel a little paranoid after being infected with a fake Google Sheets extension. I didn't lose anything of value, but I don't feel comfortable having my funds on the computer I'm using. Ever since, I've stopped downloading any pirated software and performed regular checks, but it's still unknown how I got infected. What other options do I have? Using a separate computer or hard drive for my wallet? The best option, I guess, is a hardware wallet.

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