How secure to put seed on phone ? | Bitcointalksearch.org

shorena

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on October 16, 2015, 05:33:07 AM

I may then switch to USB drive instead of phone after all ... btw shorena , when I said my own encryption I meant the seed and not the paper wallet which I guess it should be harder if the cracker don't know what algorithm I'am using ?
also could someone tell me how I'am supposed to make USB drive with encryption and what should I put ? simple .txt that includes my seed?

As long as you use a known and good algorithm it does not matter whether you write its name next to it or not.

Quote from: prodigy8 on October 16, 2015, 05:35:42 AM

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on October 16, 2015, 05:33:07 AM

I may then switch to USB drive instead of phone after all ... btw shorena , when I said my own encryption I meant the seed and not the paper wallet which I guess it should be harder if the cracker don't know what algorithm I'am using ?
also could someone tell me how I'am supposed to make USB drive with encryption and what should I put ? simple .txt that includes my seed?

Well yes you put the .txt file in the USB drice and then encrypt it (the whole USB).
Most people use Truecrypt or Bitlocker but be careful once you forget the password you can't decrypt it.
Here is a short tutorial about Truecrypt http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/how-to-encrypt-usb-flash-drive/

Be carefull with Truecrypt on Windows Systems -> https://threatpost.com/veracrypt-patched-against-two-critical-truecrypt-flaws/114833/

prodigy8

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on October 16, 2015, 05:33:07 AM

I may then switch to USB drive instead of phone after all ... btw shorena , when I said my own encryption I meant the seed and not the paper wallet which I guess it should be harder if the cracker don't know what algorithm I'am using ?
also could someone tell me how I'am supposed to make USB drive with encryption and what should I put ? simple .txt that includes my seed?

Well yes you put the .txt file in the USB drice and then encrypt it (the whole USB).
Most people use Truecrypt or Bitlocker but be careful once you forget the password you can't decrypt it.
Here is a short tutorial about Truecrypt http://www.hongkiat.com/blog/how-to-encrypt-usb-flash-drive/

OmegaStarScream

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I may then switch to USB drive instead of phone after all ... btw shorena , when I said my own encryption I meant the seed and not the paper wallet which I guess it should be harder if the cracker don't know what algorithm I'am using ?
also could someone tell me how I'am supposed to make USB drive with encryption and what should I put ? simple .txt that includes my seed?

prodigy8

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Quote from: notlist3d on October 15, 2015, 11:09:08 AM

Quote from: prodigy8 on October 15, 2015, 07:51:43 AM

Quote from: Revelation Machine on October 15, 2015, 07:02:05 AM

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on October 14, 2015, 10:35:15 AM

I was wondering how secure is it to hold seed of Electrum or Multibit or any other wallet into a phone (not a smartphone) , just something simple, I have something like this : http://www.amazon.com/samsung-gt-e1086-dual-band-ringtones-organizer/dp/b00495yfg2?tag=indifash06-20

Can this kind of things gets hacked since it have no access to internet or anything .

How will you send/receive bitcoins while being offline?
At some point you need to come online to make transactions while making you device vulnerable.

To come online and make transfers this is the easiest part,
The point is "Is it safe to put seed on the phone", if OP means physically then yes.
But even inside the phone, as a text message or as a hidden contacts seems to be secure as long as you don't share the phone with anybody.

I guess i don't trust devices as much as some. The phone is not really meant to be a vault of data. It still has it's risks being connected to make calls/texts. Or bluetooth assuming you ever leave it on. Or you sit it down and someone copies it.

A safe paper wallet is so much better. Or even a secure USB drive with encryption. Just a lot safer places to store it.

If somebody knows you in the real life and knows that you owe something in your phone then this is risky.
Whatever you have if the 'thief' is smart will get in touch, unless you use in USB drive encryption, or any password whatever.
Most of the time 99% people don't hack these kinds of phones, and that's why we think we can store there sensitive data.

shorena

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No I dont escrow anymore.

Quote from: notlist3d on October 15, 2015, 06:55:06 PM

Quote from: shorena on October 15, 2015, 03:27:57 PM

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on October 15, 2015, 03:23:29 PM

-snip-
I will answer both your replies (the one above aswell ) . So .. I'am not getting why Paper wallet is safer then the phone because if someone finds the paper wallet ... He will take it and that's it It's done (even if we say it's encrypted ... I can still encrypt the seed with my own encryption method)

I wouldnt use my own encryption, there is BIP38 to secure paper wallets with a password.

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on October 15, 2015, 03:23:29 PM

you said "Someone from another country could find a hole in phone security launch it." , How he is going to do that and hack me just using the phone number , is this even possible ? I mean the phone don't have internet , don't have Bluetooth or anything else so I'am not sure how the hell it will get ha cked .

There is e.g. the SMS of death, but AFAIK there is no attack that would be able to read data from old phones unless you are close obviously. On the other hand you cant never be 100% sure. Paper is pretty well known for several hundreds of years and I think all its vulnerabilities are known. I dont see a big difference though as long as you keep the phone offline and at home.

Iphone and androids are main target as number of people that use them - https://www.google.com/search?q=sms+take+over+phone&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 It is possible for txt messages to do more then you think.

We dont talk about smartphones though.

Quote from: notlist3d on October 15, 2015, 06:55:06 PM

And depending on the type of phone service you can make a fake cell phone tower phones connect to - http://www.wired.com/2010/07/intercepting-cell-phone-calls/ Keep in mind that was 5 years ago it's now much cheaper to do, and easier for a "bad guy".

Paper wallet is much better then trusting a phone to hold it.

Yet these old phones do not send the addressbook to a google/apple server. There is nothing that would be transfered over a hijacked or fake tower.

notlist3d

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Quote from: shorena on October 15, 2015, 03:27:57 PM

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on October 15, 2015, 03:23:29 PM

-snip-
I will answer both your replies (the one above aswell ) . So .. I'am not getting why Paper wallet is safer then the phone because if someone finds the paper wallet ... He will take it and that's it It's done (even if we say it's encrypted ... I can still encrypt the seed with my own encryption method)

I wouldnt use my own encryption, there is BIP38 to secure paper wallets with a password.

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on October 15, 2015, 03:23:29 PM

you said "Someone from another country could find a hole in phone security launch it." , How he is going to do that and hack me just using the phone number , is this even possible ? I mean the phone don't have internet , don't have Bluetooth or anything else so I'am not sure how the hell it will get ha cked .

There is e.g. the SMS of death, but AFAIK there is no attack that would be able to read data from old phones unless you are close obviously. On the other hand you cant never be 100% sure. Paper is pretty well known for several hundreds of years and I think all its vulnerabilities are known. I dont see a big difference though as long as you keep the phone offline and at home.

Iphone and androids are main target as number of people that use them - https://www.google.com/search?q=sms+take+over+phone&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 It is possible for txt messages to do more then you think.

And depending on the type of phone service you can make a fake cell phone tower phones connect to - http://www.wired.com/2010/07/intercepting-cell-phone-calls/ Keep in mind that was 5 years ago it's now much cheaper to do, and easier for a "bad guy".

Paper wallet is much better then trusting a phone to hold it.

shorena

copper member

Activity: 1498

Merit: 1499

No I dont escrow anymore.

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on October 15, 2015, 03:23:29 PM

-snip-
I will answer both your replies (the one above aswell ) . So .. I'am not getting why Paper wallet is safer then the phone because if someone finds the paper wallet ... He will take it and that's it It's done (even if we say it's encrypted ... I can still encrypt the seed with my own encryption method)

I wouldnt use my own encryption, there is BIP38 to secure paper wallets with a password.

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on October 15, 2015, 03:23:29 PM

you said "Someone from another country could find a hole in phone security launch it." , How he is going to do that and hack me just using the phone number , is this even possible ? I mean the phone don't have internet , don't have Bluetooth or anything else so I'am not sure how the hell it will get ha cked .

There is e.g. the SMS of death, but AFAIK there is no attack that would be able to read data from old phones unless you are close obviously. On the other hand you cant never be 100% sure. Paper is pretty well known for several hundreds of years and I think all its vulnerabilities are known. I dont see a big difference though as long as you keep the phone offline and at home.

OmegaStarScream

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Quote from: notlist3d on October 15, 2015, 11:09:08 AM

Quote from: prodigy8 on October 15, 2015, 07:51:43 AM

Quote from: Revelation Machine on October 15, 2015, 07:02:05 AM

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on October 14, 2015, 10:35:15 AM

I was wondering how secure is it to hold seed of Electrum or Multibit or any other wallet into a phone (not a smartphone) , just something simple, I have something like this : http://www.amazon.com/samsung-gt-e1086-dual-band-ringtones-organizer/dp/b00495yfg2?tag=indifash06-20

Can this kind of things gets hacked since it have no access to internet or anything .

How will you send/receive bitcoins while being offline?
At some point you need to come online to make transactions while making you device vulnerable.

To come online and make transfers this is the easiest part,
The point is "Is it safe to put seed on the phone", if OP means physically then yes.
But even inside the phone, as a text message or as a hidden contacts seems to be secure as long as you don't share the phone with anybody.

I guess i don't trust devices as much as some. The phone is not really meant to be a vault of data. It still has it's risks being connected to make calls/texts. Or bluetooth assuming you ever leave it on. Or you sit it down and someone copies it.

A safe paper wallet is so much better. Or even a secure USB drive with encryption. Just a lot safer places to store it.

I will answer both your replies (the one above aswell ) . So .. I'am not getting why Paper wallet is safer then the phone because if someone finds the paper wallet ... He will take it and that's it It's done (even if we say it's encrypted ... I can still encrypt the seed with my own encryption method)

you said "Someone from another country could find a hole in phone security launch it." , How he is going to do that and hack me just using the phone number , is this even possible ? I mean the phone don't have internet , don't have Bluetooth or anything else so I'am not sure how the hell it will get ha cked .

notlist3d

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Quote from: prodigy8 on October 15, 2015, 07:51:43 AM

Quote from: Revelation Machine on October 15, 2015, 07:02:05 AM

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on October 14, 2015, 10:35:15 AM

I was wondering how secure is it to hold seed of Electrum or Multibit or any other wallet into a phone (not a smartphone) , just something simple, I have something like this : http://www.amazon.com/samsung-gt-e1086-dual-band-ringtones-organizer/dp/b00495yfg2?tag=indifash06-20

Can this kind of things gets hacked since it have no access to internet or anything .

How will you send/receive bitcoins while being offline?
At some point you need to come online to make transactions while making you device vulnerable.

To come online and make transfers this is the easiest part,
The point is "Is it safe to put seed on the phone", if OP means physically then yes.
But even inside the phone, as a text message or as a hidden contacts seems to be secure as long as you don't share the phone with anybody.

I guess i don't trust devices as much as some. The phone is not really meant to be a vault of data. It still has it's risks being connected to make calls/texts. Or bluetooth assuming you ever leave it on. Or you sit it down and someone copies it.

A safe paper wallet is so much better. Or even a secure USB drive with encryption. Just a lot safer places to store it.

avatar_kiyoshi

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on October 14, 2015, 10:35:15 AM

I was wondering how secure is it to hold seed of Electrum or Multibit or any other wallet into a phone (not a smartphone) , just something simple, I have something like this : http://www.amazon.com/samsung-gt-e1086-dual-band-ringtones-organizer/dp/b00495yfg2?tag=indifash06-20

Can this kind of things gets hacked since it have no access to internet or anything .

Good idea to store seed, but i'm not recommend to just store on such phone, better to store on anywhere. for avoid the damage to phone. flash disk is another choice too, but the flash disk is just keep the seed save.

prodigy8

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Quote from: Revelation Machine on October 15, 2015, 07:02:05 AM

Quote from: OmegaStarScream on October 14, 2015, 10:35:15 AM

I was wondering how secure is it to hold seed of Electrum or Multibit or any other wallet into a phone (not a smartphone) , just something simple, I have something like this : http://www.amazon.com/samsung-gt-e1086-dual-band-ringtones-organizer/dp/b00495yfg2?tag=indifash06-20

Can this kind of things gets hacked since it have no access to internet or anything .

How will you send/receive bitcoins while being offline?
At some point you need to come online to make transactions while making you device vulnerable.

To come online and make transfers this is the easiest part,
The point is "Is it safe to put seed on the phone", if OP means physically then yes.
But even inside the phone, as a text message or as a hidden contacts seems to be secure as long as you don't share the phone with anybody.

Revelation Machine

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on October 14, 2015, 10:35:15 AM

I was wondering how secure is it to hold seed of Electrum or Multibit or any other wallet into a phone (not a smartphone) , just something simple, I have something like this : http://www.amazon.com/samsung-gt-e1086-dual-band-ringtones-organizer/dp/b00495yfg2?tag=indifash06-20

Can this kind of things gets hacked since it have no access to internet or anything .

How will you send/receive bitcoins while being offline?
At some point you need to come online to make transactions while making you device vulnerable.

dothebeats

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I'll keep the seed into a flash drive instead, or write down the mnemonics and keep it somewhere safe Even old phones like that are insecure, especially if they got damaged or lost. Better to put extra caution in keeping our money.

notlist3d

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Quote from: shorena on October 14, 2015, 02:27:21 PM

Quote from: notlist3d on October 14, 2015, 12:28:17 PM

-snip-
I think you are not looking at big picture. The world is connected now days. It is not just that 1 percent you mentioned.

Your talking about global operations. Someone from another country could find a hole in phone security launch it... and get your seed off phone and never visit Algeria. Phones just do not offer the security I would want to store a seed. It's not a good idea overall.

Its offline, no sim card, no WiFi, at least thats what I understood. I dont see any issues with the plan. I have an old Nokia phone I use when my Smartphone has issues. These things are basically indestructable, esp. if you consider the phone is turned off in a shelf.

It has access he's just saying it has phone access not smartphone. So it would connect to a cellular tower, etc. It could do calls and txt messages.

Depending on what kinda phone tower it uses look out there there is some scary spoofing of cellular towers on certain bands. With it being connected even though not smartphone I still would not put seed on it. Much better options out there.

prodigy8

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I have this Samsung phone too and i have not face any issue for many years.
This phone can not be infected, it can only be flashed manually if the thief wants.
But in generally i would suggest you to have another 2-3 backups to stay safe.

Mickeyb

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on October 14, 2015, 10:35:15 AM

I was wondering how secure is it to hold seed of Electrum or Multibit or any other wallet into a phone (not a smartphone) , just something simple, I have something like this : http://www.amazon.com/samsung-gt-e1086-dual-band-ringtones-organizer/dp/b00495yfg2?tag=indifash06-20

Can this kind of things gets hacked since it have no access to internet or anything .

Well if you leave the phone in your house then I don't see a problem with you putting your private key on it. You said also that you're not using it so it doesn't even have a sim card probably.

But if you don't take it out of your house, you could have printed your paper wallets too. Also don't put all of your private keys in one spot. Beware of fire for example.

shorena

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Quote from: notlist3d on October 14, 2015, 12:28:17 PM

-snip-
I think you are not looking at big picture. The world is connected now days. It is not just that 1 percent you mentioned.

Your talking about global operations. Someone from another country could find a hole in phone security launch it... and get your seed off phone and never visit Algeria. Phones just do not offer the security I would want to store a seed. It's not a good idea overall.

Its offline, no sim card, no WiFi, at least thats what I understood. I dont see any issues with the plan. I have an old Nokia phone I use when my Smartphone has issues. These things are basically indestructable, esp. if you consider the phone is turned off in a shelf.

notlist3d

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Quote from: OmegaStarScream on October 14, 2015, 10:57:09 AM

I can tell you from now that 99% of the Algerian citizens don't know what Bitcoin is and 99.99% of them don't know the technical side of it which means that 1% only know how to send and receive using online wallets and that's it .
I own this phone for like five years now and I don't really need it or use it all all , I keep it at home and that's it so since you told me it can't get hacked remotely I guess I will use it .
and for what comes to the Paper wallet suggestion I already have one , I just like to store little bit everywhere to make sure no big damages in case something goes wrong .

I think you are not looking at big picture. The world is connected now days. It is not just that 1 percent you mentioned.

Your talking about global operations. Someone from another country could find a hole in phone security launch it... and get your seed off phone and never visit Algeria. Phones just do not offer the security I would want to store a seed. It's not a good idea overall.

OmegaStarScream

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I can tell you from now that 99% of the Algerian citizens don't know what Bitcoin is and 99.99% of them don't know the technical side of it which means that 1% only know how to send and receive using online wallets and that's it .
I own this phone for like five years now and I don't really need it or use it all all , I keep it at home and that's it so since you told me it can't get hacked remotely I guess I will use it .
and for what comes to the Paper wallet suggestion I already have one , I just like to store little bit everywhere to make sure no big damages in case something goes wrong .

LiteCoinGuy

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i would use a paper or hardware wallet. i think that is more secure.

Topic: How secure to put seed on phone ? (Read 1311 times)