Topic: How Social Justice Warriors Are Creating An Entire Generation Of Fascists - page 3. (Read 4742 times)

I want a society ruled by reason, we live in a society ruled by the forces of violence, coercion, and mass deception. All justified in the name of sacred profit.

Yes, the USA is flirting with fascism and has been for quite awhile. The corporate elite desperately want to bring back the practice of slavery, only not in name. That's why they moved all their factories to places with abysmal human rights practices (China, India, Bangladesh, and so on). It's as close to slavery as they can get for their labor force, which means max profits. At this point, it's difficult even for the brainwashed masses not to recognize that the corporates care for nothing other than maximizing profit at the expense of everyone and everything around them.

You mistake me for a socialist. I'm not a socialist, I'm not pro big government. I'm a social-anarchist. Imagine you were transported back in time 150 years with your current knowledge, how would the world look to you? Ass-backwards. That's kind of what it feels like for young people who see the world very accurately today. We see a society bordering on dystopia, a civilization of misery.

I see a civilization with potential, one that has become so adept at reason in the last few hundred years that it no longer needs violence to govern itself. The only problem is, we don't know it yet. Or rather we stubbornly refuse to accept our nature as deeply compassionate primates. We are disconnected from this ancient self-knowledge, the language much older than words.

We've been governing by simple violence for ten thousand years, but reason is new. Reason is difficult and messy and complex. Even still, it has transformed our society completely and will continue to do so until our world ceases to be governed by violence at the highest levels. Or until the world as we know it ceases to exist as a result of state violence (nukes), whichever comes first.

Yours in compassion and solidarity,

World Citizen Beliathon

P.S.
Do you know what "social justice warriors" were called 150 years ago? Abolitionist fascist yankees, dead set on destroying the South. Miraculously, the south survived.
Today we're called commie bleeding-heart queer fascists, dead set on destroying america, jesus, and the family. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Since you are so sure of yourself on this point, and you questioned the definition of the word fascism, lets explore that definition.

1 often capitalized :  a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition

(this sounds a whole lot like socialism in the past to me)

2 :  a tendency toward or actual exercise of strong autocratic or dictatorial control

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism


We can get into even more detail and examine the well known "14 points of fascism"

1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism  Found in socialist nations of the past?: CHECK

From the prominent displays of flags and bunting to the ubiquitous lapel pins, the fervor to show patriotic nationalism, both on the part of the regime itself and of citizens caught up in its frenzy, was always obvious. Catchy slogans, pride in the military, and demands for unity were common themes in expressing this nationalism. It was usually coupled with a suspicion of things foreign that often bordered on xenophobia.

2. Disdain for the importance of human rights  Found in socialist nations of the past?: CHECK

The regimes themselves viewed human rights as of little value and a hindrance to realizing the objectives of the ruling elite. Through clever use of propaganda, the population was brought to accept these human rights abuses by marginalizing, even demonizing, those being targeted. When abuse was egregious, the tactic was to use secrecy, denial, and disinformation.

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause  Found in socialist nations of the past?: CHECK

The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people’s attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions. The methods of choice—relentless propaganda and disinformation—were usually effective. Often the regimes would incite “spontaneous” acts against the target scapegoats, usually communists, socialists, liberals, Jews, ethnic and racial minorities, traditional national enemies, members of other religions, secularists, homosexuals, and “terrorists.” Active opponents of these regimes were inevitably labeled as terrorists and dealt with accordingly.

4. The supremacy of the military/avid militarism  Found in socialist nations of the past?: CHECK

Ruling elites always identified closely with the military and the industrial infrastructure that supported it. A disproportionate share of national resources was allocated to the military, even when domestic needs were acute. The military was seen as an expression of nationalism, and was used whenever possible to assert national goals, intimidate other nations, and increase the power and prestige of the ruling elite.

5. Rampant sexism  Found in socialist nations of the past?: indeterminate

Beyond the simple fact that the political elite and the national culture were male-dominated, these regimes inevitably viewed women as second-class citizens. They were adamantly anti-abortion and also homophobic. These attitudes were usually codified in Draconian laws that enjoyed strong support by the orthodox religion of the country, thus lending the regime cover for its abuses.

6. A controlled mass media Found in socialist nations of the past?:  CHECK

Under some of the regimes, the mass media were under strict direct control and could be relied upon never to stray from the party line. Other regimes exercised more subtle power to ensure media orthodoxy. Methods included the control of licensing and access to resources, economic pressure, appeals to patriotism, and implied threats. The leaders of the mass media were often politically compatible with the power elite. The result was usually success in keeping the general public unaware of the regimes’ excesses.

7. Obsession with national security  Found in socialist nations of the past?: CHECK

Inevitably, a national security apparatus was under direct control of the ruling elite. It was usually an instrument of oppression, operating in secret and beyond any constraints. Its actions were justified under the rubric of protecting “national security,” and questioning its activities was portrayed as unpatriotic or even treasonous.

8. Religion and ruling elite tied together Found in socialist nations of the past?: Socialism is usually hostile to religion of all kinds

Unlike communist regimes, the fascist and protofascist regimes were never proclaimed as godless by their opponents. In fact, most of the regimes attached themselves to the predominant religion of the country and chose to portray themselves as militant defenders of that religion. The fact that the ruling elite’s behavior was incompatible with the precepts of the religion was generally swept under the rug. Propaganda kept up the illusion that the ruling elites were defenders of the faith and opponents of the “godless.” A perception was manufactured that opposing the power elite was tantamount to an attack on religion.

9. Power of corporations protected Found in socialist nations of the past?: CHECK Since corporations are run by the state they are protected.

Although the personal life of ordinary citizens was under strict control, the ability of large corporations to operate in relative freedom was not compromised. The ruling elite saw the corporate structure as a way to not only ensure military production (in developed states), but also as an additional means of social control. Members of the economic elite were often pampered by the political elite to ensure a continued mutuality of interests, especially in the repression of “have-not” citizens.

10. Power of labor suppressed or eliminated Found in socialist nations of the past?: CHECK

Since organized labor was seen as the one power center that could challenge the political hegemony of the ruling elite and its corporate allies, it was inevitably crushed or made powerless. The poor formed an underclass, viewed with suspicion or outright contempt. Under some regimes, being poor was considered akin to a vice.

11. Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts Found in socialist nations of the past?: CHECK

Intellectuals and the inherent freedom of ideas and expression associated with them were anathema to these regimes. Intellectual and academic freedom were considered subversive to national security and the patriotic ideal. Universities were tightly controlled; politically unreliable faculty harassed or eliminated. Unorthodox ideas or expressions of dissent were strongly attacked, silenced, or crushed. To these regimes, art and literature should serve the national interest or they had no right to exist.

12. Obsession with crime and punishment  Found in socialist nations of the past?: indeterminate

Most of these regimes maintained Draconian systems of criminal justice with huge prison populations. The police were often glorified and had almost unchecked power, leading to rampant abuse. “Normal” and political crime were often merged into trumped-up criminal charges and sometimes used against political opponents of the regime. Fear, and hatred, of criminals or “traitors” was often promoted among the population as an excuse for more police power.

13. Rampant cronyism and corruption Found in socialist nations of the past?: CHECK

Those in business circles and close to the power elite often used their position to enrich themselves. This corruption worked both ways; the power elite would receive financial gifts and property from the economic elite, who in turn would gain the benefit of government favoritism. Members of the power elite were in a position to obtain vast wealth from other sources as well: for example, by stealing national resources. With the national security apparatus under control and the media muzzled, this corruption was largely unconstrained and not well understood by the general population.

14. Fraudulent elections Found in socialist nations of the past?: CHECK

Elections in the form of plebiscites or public opinion polls were usually bogus. When actual elections with candidates were held, they would usually be perverted by the power elite to get the desired result. Common methods included maintaining control of the election machinery, intimidating and disenfranchising opposition voters, destroying or disallowing legal votes, and, as a last resort, turning to a judiciary beholden to the power elite.


http://www.ellensplace.net/fascism.html


As you can see Socialism and Fascism have many overlapping features and the two ideologies are quite compatible with each other, especially when you consider Socialism is the degradation of Democracy into the path to Fascism. As far as your site "crimethinc.com", I have seen these people recruiting at youth events such as music festivals and even purchased a couple of their books to look at them closer. They push complete propaganda garbage, and have very little if any substance.

Sorry but that's the truth, i read the first few paragraphs of that article and immediately regocnized what a piece of trash leftist propaganda it is.

Capitalism without democracy is freedom. Or you want to have a society ruled by force? Then by all means go leftist, because capitalism is atleast voluntary, leftist factories as described there are just inneficient and useless.

Yes automatization will happen, but only because the governments tax the factories too much (to pay for the welfares of the leftist all-day-watch-tv types of scumbags), and employers have to reduce the costs, since already the governments force them to pay all kinds of insurances. If it werent for that, wages could become normal, and even increase.

In my country an employer has to pay 60% of the salary to the government in all forms of social security or other BS, plus it's also taxed on his own profit.

How much fucking left do you want to go if already 70% of the GDP is controlled by the fucking government.

And leftist whine about the "evil capitalists" controlling all resources when it's obvious to me that the government does. So grow up guys.

Like most libertarians, this person completely fails to accurately conceive how a capitalism without democracy would feel.

No no, the nazis were socialists with fascist elements. They did the same socialist stuff as nowadays socialists do (welfare for poor germans etc etc), its only that they did that only with their own nationality and had xenophobia for any other nationality.

I would say 50% socialist, 10% fascist and 40% hatred and xenophobia.

Yes fascism is the decline of capitalism due to democracy and the control freaks trying to extend their power even further.

Capitalism is a perfect concept based on logic and the behaviour of humans, democracy is not.

Democracy is a scam where you give idiots power to vote in tyrants who then legitimize their tyrrany by saying "we are only doing what our voters asked for" and similar nonsense propaganda.

Unfortunately until people realize that democracy is also a form of tyrrany we can never have clean capitalism.

This one is correct. The Nazis were fascists in practice and "national socialists" in name Only.  This is basic shit folks, learn your terms if you're going to include yourselves in the conversation. Fascism is the collusion of governments with businessmen. It is a form of tyranny because the government is not operating in the interests of the people it is supposed to serve, but instead operating in the private interests of the political elite. Capitalism compels selfish men toward this end.

Any earnest student of history should by now see clearly that democracy and capitalism are fundamentally incompatible with one another.

Yes i know so whats your point?

You guys confuse definitions, saying fascist is not what it is. There are fascist elements now in big corporations becuase they work together with government, that is what fascism means.

On the other hand here is another group of equality: feminist, social justice, all sorts of equality bullcrap, and they are very leftists, hardcore socialists.

So basically in current society we see a battle between big corporations (fascists) and leftist equality agitators (socialists), whom battle for their own agendas.

1) I am sorry you do not share the same definition of the word that the majority of the rest of the world does, and I am glad you feel the need to tell me what I SHOULD mean when I use words. Unfortunately if you want to make your own definitions for words, you don't get to make me use them too. Also, please show me where I demonstrated I have "gripes against certain groups" (other than people on Bitcointalk). So magically by joining a group individuals don't have any responsibility any more, because to criticize their behavior is to criticize the entire ideals of the groups they choose to associate with?

2)Show me the part where I said I was better than other people. Please quote. By your logic no one can criticize anyone else ever because no one is perfect and we all have flaws. Sorry but unfortunately that is not how reality works. Also this still doesn't explain why you define me as a narcissist.

3) I never called you a name caller. I refuted your declarations and accusations and made my own observations about your need to basically take points I make and just invert them on me in a childish and refractory way with no further substance explaining your conclusions.

4) This "conversation" is going nowhere fast. Please make some sense quickly or I am just moving on to some one with a point and not just refractory shame games.

Hank Paulson is betting on the same thing...with real money since he has plenty of it.  I'll not bet against him.  Nor will I have any regrets about missing out on  the future which you promise.

Don't feel bad, most folks in your demographic are similarly incapable of processing post-capitalist thought. We're still going to drag you kicking and screaming into the twenty first century, with the evolving ethics that comes along with it. In fact, you should feel good about the fact that you will eventually grow old and pass on. If you didn't, civilization wouldn't be able to evolve.

I don't see any real 'data' in your 'data' link.  I'm not a young person and I've not been one or hung out with any for some time.  I can assure you that youth has never been all peaches and cream for most people, but the data that I have seen indicates that there are some rapidly expanding problems and they are impacting youth dis-proportionally.  It's a mystery that deserves and demands exploration.  Really, the strongest hypothesis I have about this at this time is that it is environmental and associated with food and drugs.  I really think it possible that our leaderships are at best looking the other way (and probably worse) as the pharma and food companies poison us.  From one perspective (and one I was prone to until fairly recently) it looks like fascist malfeasance, but from another perspective it looks like something which is fostered by our mainly socialist class leaderships in order to manipulate the trajectory of the collective.  It could be justified as a means of promoting various aspects of 'social justice', and absolutely is achieving this effect in some ways.  At the end of the day, it is the Left who are the most vocal and effective at promoting some of the policies which I'm feeling are likely quite awful, and I see the left to be doing so more rather than less of this as things evolve.  Thus, they've lost my support.

This thesis is why I say that it seems to me an unhealthy symbiosis of corporatism and socialism which is the real threat, and have no confidence that there is any real hope for a 'sustainable' future down the socialist path.  They lost before they even got going and I don't think they can ever recover.

I maintain my old leftist belief in the necessity of transfer of wealth.  I'd like it to occur in a very straightforward manner under extreme transparency and simple high-ish tax rates which I personally am willing to pay.  I also don't think it is necessary or desirable to get anywhere close to parity in achieving the most workable outcome however, and believe that it would in fact be extremely counter-productive.


I could probably be considered 'depressed' occasionally under some definitions and would have been labeled ADHD if the label was more widely applied when I was a kid.  I was by some teachers anyway.  I consider a lot of this shit a normal range of human behavior.  Today I should be doing something which I don't feel like doing so I'm lounging around screwing off on the Bitcoin forum.  So what?  Should I rush out and buy some meds?  I don't think so.  Fortunately I get off on try to understand the world around me and looking into as many corners as I can.  That can be done whether I'm feeling lazy or not.

Am I? Not for long at the rate we're going.

Please, actually read the definition of narcissism. I get the distinct feeling you don't even know what the word means and are simply using it as a refractory cudgel.

nar·cis·sism
(när′sĭ-sĭz′əm) or nar·cism (när′sĭz′əm)
n.
1. Excessive love or admiration of oneself.
2. A psychological condition characterized by self-preoccupation, lack of empathy, and unconscious deficits in self-esteem.
3. Erotic pleasure derived from contemplation or admiration of one's own body or self, especially as a fixation on or a regression to an infantile stage of development.
4. The attribute of the human psyche characterized by admiration of oneself but within normal limits.

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Narcisism


And what exactly do you base this declaration of my narcissism on? Your vast knowledge of me as a person? I don't think we have ever even talked before have we? Again this is just more childish refractory "no u!" type arguments without any basis in fact or even bothering to point out what exactly you find narcissistic. As far as my "rational" not being rational, so far I have posted a few sources referencing this type of behavior, and all I see from you so far is "NO U!".


Remind me again when this became about me? That was not an observation, it was a declaration as if what you stated was a matter of fact. I asked you for some kind of support to this, clearly you deem your declaration to be support enough. Just because I declare some people are narcissistic does not mean I condemn the entirety of humanity as narcissistic. You seem like a contrarian reactionary with nothing but refractory statements of things you know very little about. I am willing to bet this thread hit a little too close to home for you personally and now your ego is wounded and you feel the need to attack my character in order to heal your own narcissistic wounds.




So, if some one isn't already suffering a living nightmare, they clearly are part of the elite ruling class? I think you might be skipping a few levels of privilege there and assigning blame to regular people with very similar levels of privilege as yourself. If you don't like white male libertarians, perhaps you shouldn't come to places like Bitcointalk where these types congregate and then act victimized by their presence.

So? I know plenty of people who aren't. Anecdotes abound, but data tells the real story. This system is causing pandemic depression among our youth. What kind of society tolerates that?

You're right about that, but time is a healer, and I am young and patient.

I happen to be a white male (and straight to boot...please forgive me...I did not choose it) but I know plenty of people here in 'modern America' who are not white males and have a pretty decent life that they are quite happy with.  If your experience is different then perhaps it is more of a personal issue than one which can be ascribed to deficiencies in our society.  Furthermore, a wholesale change to something resembling your favored example society may not be sufficient to resolve whatever ails you.

If modern America doesn't already seem nightmarish to you, I'm afraid you have some serious privilege that needs checking.

Sweet universe, please spare me from yet another white male libertarian...

I fear totalitarianism mostly.  Socialism and Fascism are both tolerable in moderation, but both are historically stepping stones toward totalitarianism which is what I find increasingly alarming.  What we have now is a merger of the worst of both, and of the participants here on this forum, you're work seems to exemplify this about the best.  It is difficult to say whether the Fascists are using the Socialists or the Socialists are using the Fascists to better effect.  Both think they are going to vanquish the other when they get to a point where the other is no longer useful.  The salient point is that each is catalyzing the other on the path toward totalitarianism.  This is why I've walked away from my former associations with Socialism...and I'm picking up the pace.

I just read a bit more Bertrand Russell last night about the theory and practice of totalitarianism.  The dominant school of thought is that the collective is the rightful owner of the power and it can be siphoned down to the individual level as convenient.  I always have felt innately that the opposite is more appropriate, and even when I was more inclined to associate with Socialism who clearly don't share this feeling.

At this point, the things about Libertariansm that I don't like and the things about Socialism that I do like have not changed, but I'll support the Libertarians politically.  The main reason for this is that the path from Socialism, Fascism, or today's nasty combination of both is into something truly awful.  The path from Libertarianism is toward something better as the sharp corners are chipped off.

I'll have to hope that if the Libertarians get their place in the sun, they are not immediately subverted by totalitarians, and work to help avoid this eventuality if they do.  It's a longshot, but it's our best hope.  What the Left has brought us already is to a very precarious place.  At least in the U.S...I don't know or care much about the rest of the Western world but I suspect that the starry-eyed longing that the Libs here in the U.S. feel toward European Socialist constructs won't seem as sweet as they expect if they are transplanted here.  And if they are swept across the pond by some sort of a one-world totalitarian government the outcome will end up being quite nightmarish relative to what we have today.

Randomly screaming getting good results? So you are in favor of the shotgun method of scambusting? Being skeptical is a good thing, but just randomly accusing, attacking, and shaming people is not. You think it is a good idea to act like this because it MIGHT catch scammers?

What about all the honest people who were driven away by this behavior? People who wanted nothing but to help Bitcoin grow but found the level of harassment they received in this community not worth it and just left. What about the users who spend years building up a reputation just to have those years of work destroyed over some one's guess work? It is not like there is any standard of evidence maintained any more. Basically the rule is now if enough people scream that you are a scammer, you are a scammer, facts be damned. I argue that just one of these honest users lost is worse than having 5 scammers in their place. You know why? People who due due diligence in screening their trading partners don't have trouble with scammers very often. It is almost always people who get lazy, or take unnecessary risks that get ripped off. This is something individuals can work to prevent for themselves. You know what these people can't do? They can't replace the market force of having another user actively and honestly trading within the Bitcoin system. The shotgun method of scambusting is very destructive to the HONEST community as well.

No, people do not start with the same basic mix of qualities.  People start and remain wildly different, which is good.  Some are obsessive, some are creative and imaginative.  And some are basically driven to control other people.