How soon will Monero market cap pass XCoin/DarkCoin/DASH?

DaveyJones

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Quote from: illodin on August 12, 2015, 02:12:09 AM

Quote from: mathgal23 on August 12, 2015, 02:00:41 AM

DASH with a huge percentage of its coins locked away in masternodes

They are not locked away any more than any other coin where people keep them in their own wallets i.e. not on an exchange. Should cold wallets be banned in your opinion before a coin's market cap is meaningful, because it's far more difficult to spend from a cold wallet than from a masternode? Or only the coins in exchanges be counted in the market cap? Or only the coins on asks, because if you can't buy them they are not liquid?

Quote from: mathgal23 on August 12, 2015, 02:00:41 AM

For a currency to be truly fungible every coin needs to be treated equally and be available for spending at all times. That simply is not the case for masternodes where coins cannot be spent. At roughly 2000 masternoes, (1000 coins each) supply is restricted by 2 million DASH!

No. "Masternode coins" are coins just like any other coins and are available to be spent any time immediately. The 1000 coin outputs are just as much part of the total supply and spendable as any other outputs.

Not the full truth... a "cold" wallet does not generate interest unlike a masternode, so in some ways this is artificial scarcity... but in other ways it is not cause it is easy spendable if the Node owner decides to sell it....
So i would say it has some impact, but not to a full degree.

smooth

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Quote from: illodin on August 12, 2015, 02:12:09 AM

Quote from: mathgal23 on August 12, 2015, 02:00:41 AM

DASH with a huge percentage of its coins locked away in masternodes

They are not locked away any more than any other coin where people keep them in their own wallets i.e. not on an exchange. Should cold wallets be banned in your opinion before a coin's market cap is meaningful, because it's far more difficult to spend from a cold wallet than from a masternode? Or only the coins in exchanges be counted in the market cap? Or only the coins on asks, because if you can't buy them they are not liquid?

Quote from: mathgal23 on August 12, 2015, 02:00:41 AM

For a currency to be truly fungible every coin needs to be treated equally and be available for spending at all times. That simply is not the case for masternodes where coins cannot be spent. At roughly 2000 masternoes, (1000 coins each) supply is restricted by 2 million DASH!

No. "Masternode coins" are coins just like any other coins and are available to be spent any time immediately. The 1000 coin outputs are just as much part of the total supply and spendable as any other outputs.

I agree with illodin.

The reason the market cap is suspect is that the distribution is also suspect, and if it is tightly controlled the market cap becomes non-meaningful. For example, we know a large portion of the coins (masternodes) are held by Otoh and that he obtained those coins directly from the instamine or from someone who instamined them. We don't know the disposition of the rest of the instamine coins and whether they remain tightly controlled by insiders. This includes, by the way, coins that Otoh has sold in large blocks, since we don't know the relationship between buyer and seller, or between the buyer and other insiders.

Still, my overall opinion is that Dash's market cap is largely a valid market phenomenon, unlike some other coins. It is also somewhat incomparable to non-proof-of-stake coins that don't pay interest in more coins, but that's another issue.

illodin

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Quote from: mathgal23 on August 12, 2015, 02:00:41 AM

DASH with a huge percentage of its coins locked away in masternodes

They are not locked away any more than any other coin where people keep them in their own wallets i.e. not on an exchange. Should cold wallets be banned in your opinion before a coin's market cap is meaningful, because it's far more difficult to spend from a cold wallet than from a masternode? Or only the coins in exchanges be counted in the market cap? Or only the coins on asks, because if you can't buy them they are not liquid?

Quote from: mathgal23 on August 12, 2015, 02:00:41 AM

For a currency to be truly fungible every coin needs to be treated equally and be available for spending at all times. That simply is not the case for masternodes where coins cannot be spent. At roughly 2000 masternoes, (1000 coins each) supply is restricted by 2 million DASH!

No. "Masternode coins" are coins just like any other coins and are available to be spent any time immediately. The 1000 coin outputs are just as much part of the total supply and spendable as any other outputs.

mathgal23

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Quote from: SockPuppetAccount on July 21, 2015, 11:17:55 PM

I don't even hold any Monero or DASH right now. I trade them occasionally when they are pumping and volume ramps up. I have zero loyalty to either. I'd say if we are to have a go-to anonymous coin, having the anonymity baked into the protocol rather than in a tacked on masternode system which adds an additional vector for failure or attack makes a lot more sense. Also, the DASH instamine and continually making moves to restrict the supply leaves a bad taste in my mouth. For these reasons, I would probably support Monero over DASH if I were forced to choose.

The incessant Monero shillery that goes on in this section though does the coin no favors. It's pointless and annoying and makes Monero loyalists seem defensive and scared that their coin cannot be a success on it's own merits. We have heard this shit a million times already guys. Come back when the GUI is finished or Peter Todd tweets about it again because all you are doing is making me less enthusiastic about the idea of investing in Monero.

There are multiple GUIs available already

https://getmonero.org/getting-started/choose

Something else to keep in mind about "marketcaps" of currencies. When supply is artificially restricted (like the huge amounts of XRP held by Ripple Labs or the most of the AUR supply not available for trading prior to the Aurora Coin air drop, or DASH with a huge percentage of its coins locked away in masternodes) marketcap means less.

For a currency to be truly fungible every coin needs to be treated equally and be available for spending at all times. That simply is not the case for masternodes where coins cannot be spent. At roughly 2000 masternoes, (1000 coins each) supply is restricted by 2 million DASH!

edit: I dont know the current precise masternode count because the DASH wallet can't count properly:
https://dashtalk.org/threads/wrong-masternode-count.5853/#post-62644

Counting masternodes has been an issue for a while:
https://dashtalk.org/threads/masternode-count-3-different-numbers-3-different-sources.3486/

Just like masternode blinding, the FAIL continues

SockPuppetAccount

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MiG Messenger - earn while chatting

I don't even hold any Monero or DASH right now. I trade them occasionally when they are pumping and volume ramps up. I have zero loyalty to either. I'd say if we are to have a go-to anonymous coin, having the anonymity baked into the protocol rather than in a tacked on masternode system which adds an additional vector for failure or attack makes a lot more sense. Also, the DASH instamine and continually making moves to restrict the supply leaves a bad taste in my mouth. For these reasons, I would probably support Monero over DASH if I were forced to choose.

The incessant Monero shillery that goes on in this section though does the coin no favors. It's pointless and annoying and makes Monero loyalists seem defensive and scared that their coin cannot be a success on it's own merits. We have heard this shit a million times already guys. Come back when the GUI is finished or Peter Todd tweets about it again because all you are doing is making me less enthusiastic about the idea of investing in Monero.

bathrobehero

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ICO? Not even once.

Quote from: Calabi–Yau Manifold on July 21, 2015, 06:39:33 PM

Useless? I don't think so. Market cap is fundamental number.

And what way is it helpful other than one being bigger than the other must mean it's a better coin?

I could create a coin with billions of coins per block and setup a bot to buy a couple of them at 1 sat/coin so I'd have a coin with as high marketcap as bitcoin. Would that be representative about the health/quality/popularity of the coin? No. Volume can be manipualted as well but it is a bit useful while marketcap specifically in crypto I think is completely useless and people overestimate it for no reason.

If you have high marketcap but low volume, it doesn't matter how much all the coins would worth with the snapshot of the current price because low average volume means the market is weak and the price of the coin can be easily manipulated. Which is what marketcap is based on - current price.

But if you only look at volume you can get an idea about the health of the market.

Calabi–Yau Manifold

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Useless? I don't think so. Market cap is fundamental number.

bathrobehero

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Activity: 2002

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ICO? Not even once.

Marketcap is a useless number in crypto. Volume is more representative.

aleix

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Cross-posting FYI (Monero and his official forum, some facts about the work they are doing):

Quote from: aleix on July 19, 2015, 01:42:22 PM

No. The reality is that you have no community, no development, no markerting. It's not me saying, you can check it here:

Work in progress -> 3 threads

Funding Required -> 2 threads

You don't have any "Developers Thread" or "testing" area. Nothing. In Academic and technical you have only 9 threads!!!!

You are an absolute fraud. It's good that the real investors do some research, Monero is only a big hype.

Keep spamming, trolling and fudding hard the competition. That's the only you can do.

Quote from: aleix on July 19, 2015, 04:24:09 PM

Quote from: TrueCryptonaire on July 19, 2015, 04:18:56 PM

Please stay on topic; Where is your stuff? Development, testing, marketing, something?

You are telling me you have only your "we are superior" thread:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/xmr-monero-a-secure-private-untraceable-cryptocurrency-583449

And the speculation thread here:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/xmr-monero-speculation-753252

That's it? All the rest is fudding and spam?

My God.

Cheesy

Do not believe the Monero hype. Do your own research.

For more info please visit: http://forum.getmonero.org

newb4now

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Activity: 686

Merit: 500

Coinmarketcap (ask them to filter DASH as instamine)
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/coinmarketcapcom-market-cap-rankings-of-all-cryptocurrencies-199685

Instamine
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/why-the-darkcoindashdashpay-instamine-matters-999886

Monero Development goals (use to help choose date in poll)
https://getmonero.org/design-goals/

Here are a few example coins with a huge premine (arguably similar impact to an instamine):

Ripple (still kicking despite lots of drama)
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/ripple/

Auroracoin (huge market cap early before crash and burn)
http://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/auroracoin/

Topic: How soon will Monero market cap pass XCoin/DarkCoin/DASH? (Read 920 times)