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Topic: How the Ripple payment network and XRP are different from Bitcoin (Read 11076 times)

member
Activity: 102
Merit: 10
Two Kinds of Money

1.The Scarcity Model: A single uniform quantity in limited supply made valuable by its own scarcity.
In other words, the value of this type of money depends on the supply of, and demand for, the money commodity itself. Conventional definitions of money define money only in terms of this model, a "medium of exchange". Examples are: cowries, gold and silver, fiat cash and coins, bank credit, and now, in the model's purest and most spectacularly speculative form, Bitcoin.

2. The Abundance Model. A promise of something specific from someone specific made valuable by its redemption in real production. The value of this type of money is defined by the promised redemption in goods and/or services. As such, this type of money is promises of an indefinite number of non-uniform commodities in indefinite supply and, unlike the limited quantity "coin" concept of money, the total quantity of these credits in circulation does not affect their value, because the value of a credit is defined by what its issuer will redeem it for in real goods and/or services. Examples are: business-to-business barter credits, customer rewards, travel points, discount coupons, mutual credit systems.

The second type you called abundance, but goods and services are scarce. This is why they are traded by scarcity-based commodities. You cant have 1 billion hours of quality devs as a redeemable promise.
Also, i disgaree that fiat money is under a scarcity model (look at QEs).

But in ripple both worlds are possible. People can create both kinds of tokens in there.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
Ripple requires trust
Bitcoin requires no trust
Every system requires trust. The most obvious trust required with Bitcoin is that you trust that 51% of the mining power won't get together and agree to refuse to build on any blocks that include your transactions.


+1 every trade requires trust of some level without exception, but you can not trust the scarcity model it always leads to centralization and control.   

http://www.veooz.com/photos/rH7iMre.html


Two Kinds of Money

1.The Scarcity Model: A single uniform quantity in limited supply made valuable by its own scarcity.
In other words, the value of this type of money depends on the supply of, and demand for, the money commodity itself. Conventional definitions of money define money only in terms of this model, a "medium of exchange". Examples are: cowries, gold and silver, fiat cash and coins, bank credit, and now, in the model's purest and most spectacularly speculative form, Bitcoin.

2. The Abundance Model. A promise of something specific from someone specific made valuable by its redemption in real production. The value of this type of money is defined by the promised redemption in goods and/or services. As such, this type of money is promises of an indefinite number of non-uniform commodities in indefinite supply and, unlike the limited quantity "coin" concept of money, the total quantity of these credits in circulation does not affect their value, because the value of a credit is defined by what its issuer will redeem it for in real goods and/or services. Examples are: business-to-business barter credits, customer rewards, travel points, discount coupons, mutual credit systems.
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
Ripple requires trust
Bitcoin requires no trust
Every system requires trust. The most obvious trust required with Bitcoin is that you trust that 51% of the mining power won't get together and agree to refuse to build on any blocks that include your transactions.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Martijn Meijering
the problem with ripple is you have to make it onto the UNL list, to be part of the consensus.

There's no such thing as the UNL, every node chooses its own UNL.

Quote
You can't just join.

More precisely, you can't force others to put you on their UNL, since they like you are free to choose their own.
legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1023
the problem with ripple is you have to make it onto the UNL list, to be part of the consensus.

You can't just join.

Who decides who get on the UNL list that is the question.

If you are talking about being a validator server, you are right. If you are talking about using ripple network, you are wrong.

I am talking about being a validator server.
newbie
Activity: 37
Merit: 0
Ripple requires trust
Bitcoin requires no trust
newbie
Activity: 9
Merit: 0
the problem with ripple is you have to make it onto the UNL list, to be part of the consensus.

You can't just join.

Who decides who get on the UNL list that is the question.

If you are talking about being a validator server, you are right. If you are talking about using ripple network, you are wrong.
legendary
Activity: 2632
Merit: 1023
the problem with ripple is you have to make it onto the UNL list, to be part of the consensus.

You can't just join.

Who decides who get on the UNL list that is the question.
member
Activity: 102
Merit: 10
I would use the fuck out of ripple for self issued credit, but ripples work on the scarcity model. If ripples where free and unlimited it work well for me.
XRP is the only asset on Ripple that works this way, and it has to because it's used to pay transaction fees and there's no known way to support unlimited transactions.

Quote
Of course that destroys their business model. The ripple team thinks they will get paid by the valuation going up for ripple. How about getting paid by providing a valuable service?
If we followed that model, we'd either have a lot less money to spend on development and integration or we'd have to charge for lots of things we can do for free using the model we've chosen. We set things up the way we did because that was what we believed was best. The market will decide whether we made good decisions or not. If we chose wrong, we will lose to those who make better choices. Worst case, the world gets a payment system that's even better than Ripple. I can live with that.


Well I will wait on that better system then.. good luck.

Define a ripple, take the hard limit off, allow people to create them when they issue and asset, require that they be redeemable, fixed.

Actually, you can create such yourself in ripple as it is now.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
I would use the fuck out of ripple for self issued credit, but ripples work on the scarcity model. If ripples where free and unlimited it work well for me.
XRP is the only asset on Ripple that works this way, and it has to because it's used to pay transaction fees and there's no known way to support unlimited transactions.

Quote
Of course that destroys their business model. The ripple team thinks they will get paid by the valuation going up for ripple. How about getting paid by providing a valuable service?
If we followed that model, we'd either have a lot less money to spend on development and integration or we'd have to charge for lots of things we can do for free using the model we've chosen. We set things up the way we did because that was what we believed was best. The market will decide whether we made good decisions or not. If we chose wrong, we will lose to those who make better choices. Worst case, the world gets a payment system that's even better than Ripple. I can live with that.


Well I will wait on that better system then.. good luck.

Define a ripple, take the hard limit off, allow people to create them when they issue and asset, require that they be redeemable, fixed.

 

legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
I would use the fuck out of ripple for self issued credit, but ripples work on the scarcity model. If ripples where free and unlimited it work well for me.
XRP is the only asset on Ripple that works this way, and it has to because it's used to pay transaction fees and there's no known way to support unlimited transactions.

Quote
Of course that destroys their business model. The ripple team thinks they will get paid by the valuation going up for ripple. How about getting paid by providing a valuable service?
If we followed that model, we'd either have a lot less money to spend on development and integration or we'd have to charge for lots of things we can do for free using the model we've chosen. We set things up the way we did because that was what we believed was best. The market will decide whether we made good decisions or not. If we chose wrong, we will lose to those who make better choices. Worst case, the world gets a payment system that's even better than Ripple. I can live with that.
legendary
Activity: 966
Merit: 1000
I would use the fuck out of ripple for self issued credit, but ripples work on the scarcity model. If ripples where free and unlimited it work well for me.

Of course that destroys their business model. The ripple team thinks they will get paid by the valuation going up for ripple. How about getting paid by providing a valuable service?
legendary
Activity: 3976
Merit: 1421
Life, Love and Laughter...
All about it was already said here:
http://ripplescam.org/

Ripple will fall when real crisis will start or even faster when people get to know what it really is. 
Because of mainstream/banksters help handicap this scamcoin got high valuation but people have no knowledge about how this system work, how closed and centralised it is and how easily can be controlled by government and how fast can bring losses for users while original owners have majority owneship being risk-free at least temporarily.

Bitcoin has ripple-headache right now what is a real massive attack on all freedom, humanitarian ideas and principles standing behind it. But soon ripple will have similar headache because of what it is and true bitcoin alternatives which are coming. Scam stays scam in the end and people start to open eyes.

that site doesn't give much info.  please try going to it and read for yourself.
legendary
Activity: 3976
Merit: 1421
Life, Love and Laughter...
But you do intend XRP to become a real currency, not just as some sort of stamps, don't you?

I think it is mostly just a very clever experiment in social engineering - they stated that XRP are "postage stamps" yet people are now buying them for large amounts of BTC and when they finally open source and show they are "postage stamps" after all they will have made millions in selling them plus not being able to be shown as liars.

Although I can't respect it I can certainly take my hat off to the cleverness of it.


cynical.  but you have the right to your own opinion, and everyone can respect that. 
legendary
Activity: 3976
Merit: 1421
Life, Love and Laughter...
I think that the speculation in XRP might actually be the biggest *problem* for Ripple.

Right now the Open Coiners can "sell" their self-printed currency for 1 BTC per 10K (and they have billions of them).

Once Ripple actually is *working* then IF the XRP are used as what we were all told their purpose is (i.e. postage stamps) then they will be worth very little (i.e. expect a *huge crash*).

This will hurt many of the speculators (who for sure have been rather silly to gamble on it) but I wonder if the backlash will actually *kill* the project (i.e. is this gamble going to actually pay off?).


yes that's true.  but that remains to be seen. 

legendary
Activity: 1064
Merit: 1001
This topic title should be changed, i agree that its not a matter of superiority, but to understand the differences and evaluate ripple protocol without passion

I agree with this statement.
member
Activity: 102
Merit: 10
This topic title should be changed, i agree that its not a matter of superiority, but to understand the differences and evaluate ripple protocol without passion
legendary
Activity: 1596
Merit: 1012
Democracy is vulnerable to a 51% attack.
I was confused by this. I thought the consensus mechanism was only based on the nodes on your UNL, all of whom may have different UNLs themselves.
From the point of view of one server, all that matters is what the nodes on its UNL say.
hero member
Activity: 714
Merit: 500
Martijn Meijering
I wish more people had exposure to this lower level discussion of the Ripple network and consensus:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6867324

I was confused by this. I thought the consensus mechanism was only based on the nodes on your UNL, all of whom may have different UNLs themselves.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
All about it was already said here:
http://ripplescam.org/

At best, that site has become a dishonest joke. It is outdated and inaccurate.

Ripple source code:

https://github.com/ripple

Check out the ongoing work on Contracts: https://ripple.com/wiki/Contracts

If you are interested in the technical future, Ripple Labs recently hired a co-founder of nodejitsu: https://www.nodejitsu.com/

They are backed by Google Ventures (who also backs a Bitcoin exchange startup)---among other serious investors.

It has a more impressive dedicated team than most coins, from Dev through Business Development: https://www.ripplelabs.com/

Nothing about Ripple points to a scam.
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