I know someone who has $1 million waiting to transfer out...
And they don't have some combination of lawyers, debt collectors, Japan FSA investigators, and goons banging on Mt. Gox's door in Shibuya?
Topic: How to apply pressure to Mt. Gox to pay up. (Read 3646 times)
And they don't have some combination of lawyers, debt collectors, Japan FSA investigators, and goons banging on Mt. Gox's door in Shibuya?
Of course, they have the right, definitely. Maybe you all should just take a look at Goxs business conditions:
Quote from: Gox
To the extent permitted by law, Mt. Gox will not be held liable for any damages, loss of profit, loss of revenue, loss of business, loss of opportunity, loss of data, indirect or consequential loss unless the loss suffered is caused by a breach of these Terms by Mt. Gox.
That won't help Mt. Gox. The Japan Consumer Contract Act voids such clauses:
Quote from: Consumer Affairs Agency, Government of Japan
Section 2 Nullity of Consumer Contract Clauses
Article 8 (Nullity of Clauses which Exempt a Business Operator from Liability for Damages)
(1) The following clauses of a consumer contract are void.
(i) Clauses which totally exclude a business operator from liability to compensate damages to a consumer arising from the business operator 's default.
(ii) Clauses which partially exclude a business operator from liability to compensate damages to a consumer arising from the business operator 's default (such default shall be limited to cases where same arises due to the intentional act or gross negligence on the part of the business operator, the business operator's representative or employee).
...
Read the full text at the link. Japan law doesn't allow clauses like the one Mt. Gox uses.Article 8 (Nullity of Clauses which Exempt a Business Operator from Liability for Damages)
(1) The following clauses of a consumer contract are void.
(i) Clauses which totally exclude a business operator from liability to compensate damages to a consumer arising from the business operator 's default.
(ii) Clauses which partially exclude a business operator from liability to compensate damages to a consumer arising from the business operator 's default (such default shall be limited to cases where same arises due to the intentional act or gross negligence on the part of the business operator, the business operator's representative or employee).
...
Note another term in the Mt. Gox agreement:
Quote from: Mt Gox
Mt. Gox represents and warrants that:
...
it will hold all monetary sums and all Bitcoins deposited by each Member in its Account, in that Member's name as registered in their Account details, and on such Member's behalf.
...
it will hold all monetary sums and all Bitcoins deposited by each Member in its Account, in that Member's name as registered in their Account details, and on such Member's behalf.
That's an obligation to segregate customer assets from Mt. Gox's own assets. It's also a requirement of the Japan Payment Services Act, which is enforced by the Japan Financial Services Agency.
So Mt. Gox cannot get off the hook with some disclaimer in their terms of service.
Don't bother with that OhShei persona, he/she is obviously used to conversing with dimwits.
It seems to me that this "hiatus" is long past simple negligence and fast approaching something much worse. I hope I'm wrong because it's going to harm Bitcoin adoption in the short-medium term, but Gox isn't exactly helping Bitcoin's image as it is.
A question for those with money still in limbo... why haven't you canceled your withdrawal, converted to BTC, and got the hell out of there? A class action lawsuit is a pipe dream, and the rest of the options are far more expensive than just moving on while you still can.
It seems to me that this "hiatus" is long past simple negligence and fast approaching something much worse. I hope I'm wrong because it's going to harm Bitcoin adoption in the short-medium term, but Gox isn't exactly helping Bitcoin's image as it is.
A question for those with money still in limbo... why haven't you canceled your withdrawal, converted to BTC, and got the hell out of there? A class action lawsuit is a pipe dream, and the rest of the options are far more expensive than just moving on while you still can.
+1
Don't bother with that OhShei persona, he/she is obviously used to conversing with dimwits.
It seems to me that this "hiatus" is long past simple negligence and fast approaching something much worse. I hope I'm wrong because it's going to harm Bitcoin adoption in the short-medium term, but Gox isn't exactly helping Bitcoin's image as it is.
A question for those with money still in limbo... why haven't you canceled your withdrawal, converted to BTC, and got the hell out of there? A class action lawsuit is a pipe dream, and the rest of the options are far more expensive than just moving on while you still can.
It seems to me that this "hiatus" is long past simple negligence and fast approaching something much worse. I hope I'm wrong because it's going to harm Bitcoin adoption in the short-medium term, but Gox isn't exactly helping Bitcoin's image as it is.
A question for those with money still in limbo... why haven't you canceled your withdrawal, converted to BTC, and got the hell out of there? A class action lawsuit is a pipe dream, and the rest of the options are far more expensive than just moving on while you still can.
I'm actually quite surprised at the backlash in this thread. I'd like to think of the OP's post as an "interest guage" to what could be done not necessarily a definitive answer as to how to handle the current Mt. Gox situation.
The main thing here is doing something. It doesn't matter if you have made astronomical profit or not, Mt. Gox doesn't have the right to be handling things in the way they are.
The main thing here is doing something. It doesn't matter if you have made astronomical profit or not, Mt. Gox doesn't have the right to be handling things in the way they are.
Of course, they have the right, definitely. Maybe you all should just take a look at Goxs business conditions:
Quote from: Gox
To the extent permitted by law, Mt. Gox will not be held liable for any damages, loss of profit, loss of revenue, loss of business, loss of opportunity, loss of data, indirect or consequential loss unless the loss suffered is caused by a breach of these Terms by Mt. Gox.
You like to apply pressure on Gox as a savings bank. But this is ridiculous and no judge will share this view with you. Is a high risk investment and currently Gox can only transfer 1 Milllion per week. It has taken months to get all the money to Gox, and it will take at least as long to get it out. Deal with it!
I think you are missing the point here. You are free to have your views, but not everyone is in favor of the "sit around and take it" method that you preach.
The situation with Gox is turning into negligence and they are completely masking any obstacles or issues they may have currently run into. As you can see on the boards, no one has a clue as to what is going on with Gox whether good or bad. It sounds like from the responses so far, you may be in the minority here and while you keep screaming "deal with it", others are choosing to take action.
I'm actually quite surprised at the backlash in this thread. I'd like to think of the OP's post as an "interest guage" to what could be done not necessarily a definitive answer as to how to handle the current Mt. Gox situation.
The main thing here is doing something. It doesn't matter if you have made astronomical profit or not, Mt. Gox doesn't have the right to be handling things in the way they are.
The main thing here is doing something. It doesn't matter if you have made astronomical profit or not, Mt. Gox doesn't have the right to be handling things in the way they are.
Of course, they have the right, definitely. Maybe you all should just take a look at Goxs business conditions:
Quote from: Gox
To the extent permitted by law, Mt. Gox will not be held liable for any damages, loss of profit, loss of revenue, loss of business, loss of opportunity, loss of data, indirect or consequential loss unless the loss suffered is caused by a breach of these Terms by Mt. Gox.
You like to apply pressure on Gox as a savings bank. But this is ridiculous and no judge will share this view with you. Is a high risk investment and currently Gox can only transfer 1 Milllion per week. It has taken months to get all the money to Gox, and it will take at least as long to get it out. Deal with it!
all of these options are probably more expensive then paying 5-10% over market for BTC (where market is an exchange other then gox) and selling them on another exchange
Yeah. These options would cost more (in time and money) instead of cancelling the withdrawal, buying BTC and selling it elsewhere.Depends on how much money is stuck up there.
I have $20k trying to transfer out. 10% of that is $2k, that is a lot of money.
I know someone who has $1 million waiting to transfer out...
I'm not sure I would use MtGox either way...
@เสือน้อย: What did you say, why you have been banned from Gox? Was it money laundering? Sorry, I can not remember.
Start calling reporters who have written stories about Bitcoin. Call Forbes, the Wall Street Journal, and Bloomberg BusinessWeek.
Great story. "I have made astronomical profit but must wait three months for my money." Do you expected charity? Such things are common for high-risk investments. But yes, people think about Bitcoin as if it had been invented by Jesus Christ. So maybe it's worth trying.
Are you personally stupid or just ESL-stupid?
I'm actually quite surprised at the backlash in this thread. I'd like to think of the OP's post as an "interest guage" to what could be done not necessarily a definitive answer as to how to handle the current Mt. Gox situation.
The main thing here is doing something. It doesn't matter if you have made astronomical profit or not, Mt. Gox doesn't have the right to be handling things in the way they are. Answers will slowly be demanded and if they aren't given, pressure is going to build to a point where people start doing something. Starting with a small claim where they are based in the US is a good way to get some attention.
(also from what it sounds like, not many people responding have 10's of thousands stuck in withdrawal)
The main thing here is doing something. It doesn't matter if you have made astronomical profit or not, Mt. Gox doesn't have the right to be handling things in the way they are. Answers will slowly be demanded and if they aren't given, pressure is going to build to a point where people start doing something. Starting with a small claim where they are based in the US is a good way to get some attention.
(also from what it sounds like, not many people responding have 10's of thousands stuck in withdrawal)
You're new. Take the time to search this forum for "doing something".
Also there's a reason no major player is dumb enough to have 10s of k's stuck in withdrawal. That reason is more of the history you don't know.
The main thing here is doing something. It doesn't matter if you have made astronomical profit or not, Mt. Gox doesn't have the right to be handling things in the way they are. Answers will slowly be demanded and if they aren't given, pressure is going to build to a point where people start doing something. Starting with a small claim where they are based in the US is a good way to get some attention.
That was my point. It's past time to do something. There are things that can be done.The actual location of Mt. Gox, according to a filing in the Coinlab lawsuit, is Tōkyō-to, Shibuya-ku, Shibuya, ２丁目１１−６. 5th floor. About 300 meters east of Shibuya station.
I'm actually quite surprised at the backlash in this thread. I'd like to think of the OP's post as an "interest guage" to what could be done not necessarily a definitive answer as to how to handle the current Mt. Gox situation.
The main thing here is doing something. It doesn't matter if you have made astronomical profit or not, Mt. Gox doesn't have the right to be handling things in the way they are. Answers will slowly be demanded and if they aren't given, pressure is going to build to a point where people start doing something. Starting with a small claim where they are based in the US is a good way to get some attention.
(also from what it sounds like, not many people responding have 10's of thousands stuck in withdrawal)
The main thing here is doing something. It doesn't matter if you have made astronomical profit or not, Mt. Gox doesn't have the right to be handling things in the way they are. Answers will slowly be demanded and if they aren't given, pressure is going to build to a point where people start doing something. Starting with a small claim where they are based in the US is a good way to get some attention.
(also from what it sounds like, not many people responding have 10's of thousands stuck in withdrawal)
How about flying over and running naked through their office wearing only an ammunition belt, a plethora of guns taped to several limbs, an RPG slung across the back and a raging hardon? That should work.
The last one is probably the important one. The armament pales in importance to the erection and can be done without.
If someone does this you'll be a NPC in S.MG's GTA too.
It probably won't be long until one of the e-Lolyers or shills here who can't stop loving the Gox breaks down and does it anyway. It will probably happen when they found out the Feds gave their seized Gox dollars to one of the lending scammers on welfare, probably this one.
Start calling reporters who have written stories about Bitcoin. Call Forbes, the Wall Street Journal, and Bloomberg BusinessWeek.
Great story. "I have made astronomical profit but must wait three months for my money." Do you expected charity? Such things are common for high-risk investments. But yes, people think about Bitcoin as if it had been invented by Jesus Christ. So maybe it's worth trying.
How about flying over and running naked through their office wearing only an ammunition belt, a plethora of guns taped to several limbs, an RPG slung across the back and a raging hardon? That should work.
The last one is probably the important one. The armament pales in importance to the erection and can be done without.
If someone does this you'll be a NPC in S.MG's GTA too.
With them under oath, under penalty of perjury. "We have a backlog processing withdrawals" has zero value as a defense in court.
Yeah, because you'd know what has and hasn't value in court and how much of it. Because this is the lolcourt of lolpublic lolpinion.
hahah true that.
How about flying over and running naked through their office wearing only an ammunition belt, a plethora of guns taped to several limbs, an RPG slung across the back and a raging hardon? That should work.
The last one is probably the important one. The armament pales in importance to the erection and can be done without.
If someone does this you'll be a NPC in S.MG's GTA too.
With them under oath, under penalty of perjury. "We have a backlog processing withdrawals" has zero value as a defense in court.
Yeah, because you'd know what has and hasn't value in court and how much of it. Because this is the lolcourt of lolpublic lolpinion.
The Delaware option is not that expensive at all, especially if you are on the East Coast already. $15k is a great limit as well, we don't get that high of a ruling amount in CA.
It would cost the trip to Delaware and about $40 for the filing fee (give or take a few extra $10 fees im sure). Here's the link to the courts: http://courts.delaware.gov/JPCourt/index.stm
All the filing could be done online and all you would have to do is show up, hardly an effort if you have $15k waiting in Mt. Gox withdrawal land.
Good point. If Mt. Gox sends someone, you get to ask questions about where your money is. With them under oath, under penalty of perjury. "We have a backlog processing withdrawals" has zero value as a defense in court. It would cost the trip to Delaware and about $40 for the filing fee (give or take a few extra $10 fees im sure). Here's the link to the courts: http://courts.delaware.gov/JPCourt/index.stm
All the filing could be done online and all you would have to do is show up, hardly an effort if you have $15k waiting in Mt. Gox withdrawal land.
My guess is that if you file suit, you will get paid before it goes to court. Mt. Gox doesn't want to answer hard questions under oath. Nor do they want a default judgement against them, which is what happens if they don't send someone.
(I once had a disagreement with Freelancer.com, which is in New South Wales, Australia. The small claims court there accepts online filings. I filled out the appropriate forms and sent a copy to Freelancer.com. I had an answer from them within hours and a wire transfer in my bank account the next day. That's what usually happens when you sue and the other side knows they have a losing case.)
How about flying over and running naked through their office wearing only an ammunition belt, a plethora of guns taped to several limbs, an RPG slung across the back and a raging hardon? That should work.
The last one is probably the important one. The armament pales in importance to the erection and can be done without.
Thank you for your 2 mBTC I'll be sure to gamble it away on something other than being able to withdraw it from Gox.
How about flying over and running naked through their office wearing only an ammunition belt, a plethora of guns taped to several limbs, an RPG slung across the back and a raging hardon? That should work.
The last one is probably the important one. The armament pales in importance to the erection and can be done without.
If you think you're going to "apply pressure" to gox you're crazy. If the US govt can't push them around, I doubt your going to have much more luck.
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