Topic: How to avoid transaction fees - page 2. (Read 1811 times)

A free exchange.  Peer-to-peer.  It remembers what was exchanged/traded and an ID representing the person (can be anonymous).

Example:

Initiating promise:  patio furniture
Notice - accept:    0.1 BTC
Promise:              0.1 BTC
Deliver:               0.1 BTC
Deliver:               patio furniture
End transaction

It is a standard structure of messages showing every stage of the transaction.  It is also a "Promise Reporting" system.  It allows "Promise Assurance" companies to guarantee transactions between anonymous people and "Wealth Translation" to occur if the "initiating promise" and "notice - accept" values are incompatible (IE. barter-intermediaries).

but instead of making bitcoin more useful or user friendly for everything, by people demanding that mining pools and the protocol should lower the fee's. instead your advice is to tell people to move away from bitcoin and use something else.. so yes i call you a dogecoin fanboy

"Doge or some other alt" does not equal "you doge fan boys want bitcoin to fail"
Wow...   

Well personally I would pay coffee with cash. But I understand what you are saying.

In the Netherlands we don't use much creditcards but Maestro debitcards instead, and I had a quick look and paying with that costs € 0,07 - € 0,31 per transaction* for the merchant. I guess the difference is that the merchant pays it and the customer doesn't notice any costs directly. (obviously it is calculated in the merchant's cost so the product price would be higher and the customer does notice it indirectly.)

I also know that online payments in the Netherlands mostly go through iDeal (connected with all banks) and the costs for that are around € 0,45 per transaction. Creditcards 2,25% + €0,25 per transaction. PayPal 3,4% + €0,35 per transaction.



So yeh, in the end "even" with small transactions I guess bitcoin is much cheaper. For online transactions always much much cheaper. It's probably just the idea that you pay it directly as the customer and not the merchant (and you indirectly.)

Also if the merchant charges €2,00 for coffee for people who pay with debitcard and €2,00 in bitcoins + your bitcoin transaction costs, it is still more expensive with bitcoin since you are indirectly paying for the debitcard costs of the merchant already too.

I do think bitcoin is still in the beginning of acceptance so perhaps this will change. Like merchants can specifically say that they charge you 0.0001 less for transactions fees (obviously only relevant for the smaller payments) or even some discount if accepting bitcoin is cheaper for them.


EDIT: there are also examples of websites who do implicitly charge transaction fee. Best example in NL would be the biggest Dutch website to order food online: thuisbezorgd.nl, they say:
iDEAL: € 1,00
Creditcard: 6% of total
PayPal: 6% of total
Bitcoin: no transaction costs.
That's great I guess. In that perspective that €0,032 euro transaction fee looks really cheap, even on a small food order.


* With 1000+ transactions it's € 0,07 - minimum of 100 transactions which is € 0,31 per transaction. Excluding any "normal" monthly/yearly bank account fees.

You CAN avoid fees if you wait long enough for your coins to mature. It's no secret. You can't send less than 0.01 though. But is 0.0001 btc so horrible?

no why dont we realise that the protocol is meant to give freedoms to transmit wealth. and not to make people wealthy. its the exchanges and product sales (layers above the protocol) which is where the wealth is made and measured.

the reward for mining .. THE BLOCK REWARD .. is more then enough.. imagine that as the salary for doing your job (confirming transactions) and stop thinking you need a bonus (the fee) just for doing your job.

think about your salary as your sole income.. and stop selling your pay cheque below your cost of living.. hold onto your pay check and create a demand to get a better value for your pay check.

those that cash out below cost of living are losers. they then cry that they want a bonus.. they are personally shooting themselves in the foot in 2 ways
1) causing a pric drop by selling out at a loss
2) demanding fee's which causes bitcoin to be less appealing, causing demand to drop. which again causes the price to drop because large numbers of people are not buying it.

please get your greedy mindsets of this weeks profiteering out of your brains.. and think of the long picture...

and as i said before those that dont care about bitcoin, understand bitcoin or want to think about the big picture. that are only in it for a quick fiat bonus.. please go back to your fiat world, you greedy dumb, people  

How much do you think paying for that coffee today with a cc costs?  A lot more than 4 cents.

Mining doesn't work that way.  Miners are always working on the next block.  If they have no tx to include it will simply be an "empty" (only the coinbase tx) block.

Yeh, you can make internally fee-free transactions on inputs.io.

Oh wait.

Seriously tho, it would be decentralized and you (and the receiver?) would need to trust that service, which you shouldn't.

TBH 4,6 cents on a small transaction can be relatively much. Of course on a million dollar transaction it's nothing. Even on a couple hundred dollar I guess it's no big deal. But if you want to buy coffee every day with bitcoin IMO 4,6 cents is too much. Solution? IDK (I assume the solution now is to buy a $50 giftgard for your coffee or something so you only have to pay transaction fee once.)

Ok, got it, we're all really greedy.

Why not give us a big middle finger by doing exactly as you suggested and setting up a Bitcoin bank that lumps transactions into one?

says the greedy mindset of a person that does not understand bitcoins vision..

the 25btc is more then enough per block for miners.. if these same miners think that 25btc is not enough and they want extra subsidy bonus. then they need to go back to fiat,

these greedy miners that think 25BTC reward does not cover the costs, are the stupid neanderthals that sell there bitcoins below their costs.. and i facepalm all of them for doing so. as all they care about is FIAT profits.

fee's shouldnt be a "requirement" until 2140 not 2014.. so please swap the numbers around as you must be dyslexic to get the 1,0,4 in the wrong order and think of now 2014. and then when you get your block reward. dont be in a hurry to convert it into FIAT.

If you want to run a bank primarily dealing with the kind of people who are too cheap to pay $0.04 a transaction, and making $0.50 per customer per year, go ahead.

find a pool that does not care about fee's (basically ignore eligius as they are greedy fee grabbers) and ensure that your bitcoin client AddNodes only the supernodes belonging to fair/cheap fee pools. if everyone done the same then the greedy pools wont get the transactions relayed to them before the fair/cheap miners are already calculating their block ( which hopefully if they have enough hashpower, they would also solve the block with that nice few miliseconds head start)

if only everyone deleted nodes that link to greedy miners. then those gready miners wont receive transactions to process (Utopian dream i know)



nah we want bitcoin to succeed. i know you doge fan boys want bitcoin to fail, by demanding bitcoin pools to be greedier and thus less appealing. but i would truly love to only need bitcoin to buy a 1day pass to read an article in a newspaper or magazine for a few pennies.. without being charged the same or more few pennies for the privilege.

Maybe this thread is a parody of "stupid threads?"

You must have high priority transaction. Check Bitcoin wikipedia

Hahaha....
I must say LOL!

0.0001BTC so "horrible" hehe.... it is 4 cents? or ~   am I right?

And you can always install Bitcoin-qt and pay 0 fee. And with a bit of determination you can pay no fee and wait similar time as when sending money via bank accounts...

And when you pay "horrible" 0.0001 BTC you are 99,99999% sure that your transacion will be confirmed within xx minutes where xx is a number from 1 - ~60 (in most cases it is MUCH less than 60min)

And you say

Come on man this is a joke.

Open a server for pool of mining.
You can emit transaction freely ...

Less than 5 cents?
Those fees are virtually free for large transactions.
For small amounts you can use Doge or some other alt and the fees are under a penny.

How can we avoid transaction fees?  Could we have an electronic bank that lets us place transactions with the mony, but only make one transaction a month of all of them at once, then we just pay the horrible 0.0001 fee one time a month, like a credit card or something..