Topic: How to buy large volumes of Bitcoins anonymously? (Read 1854 times)
Or, it looks like this [https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=90192.0] might be an option. They mention five figure purchases of BTC. At that point, "anonymously" would be limited to the payment method used to purchase the BTC.
You can't travel internationally with that much cash and remain anonymous. It's a huge risk - everyone has lost a bag or something in an airport and it will get confiscated if you don't declare it.
I find it interesting that in the US, the limit is still set to $10,000 when entering the country. It's been this way for as far as I can remember, yet inflation has driven prices up, so in a way, the limit has actually gone down.
I know some people purchase cars on eBay (someone I know bought an exotic car without even looking at it, and had it shipped over.... let's just say he won't be doing this again) without so much as seeing them... but these people are fools.
A few years ago I sold an M5 on Craigslist. The buyer lived 1000 miles away, and I found out after the fact, was worth hundreds of millions (hard to tell for sure, but the guy had his own private mutual funds with bear stearns IIRC) and the guy flew down, inspected the vehicle, and drove it back up.
My point is that the issue of buying BTC, or anything really, anonymously, is not specific to BTC, and I don't see an attribute of BTC that makes it different than trading cash, or selling a car. It's probably even worse, since there is no recourse. Not to mention, looking at BTC trading, transactions this large would probably stand out, as BTC's market cap is nowhere near as large as USD (USD is so large, they stopped publishing the M3 indicator ;-))
I bought some BTC using Bitme. The max was USD500, which I deposited in cash at a local Chase branch. The whole experience was quick, painless, and easy. Since BitMe publishes the list of open buy/sell calls on their system, I noticed that it would have been impossible to purchase even USD5000 worth of BTC that day - there simply wasn't enough of it for sale. To acquire just USD5000 worth, someone would have to place a buy order at a much higher price than what BTC is "listed" as, and then perhaps sell orders at that price would come in.
This supports the argument that buying large amounts of BTC without being noticed is very hard, as I'm sure even a USD100k purchase of BTC would not go un noticed.
The only solution goes back to what was posted early on in this thread.... multiple small transactions.
I find it interesting that in the US, the limit is still set to $10,000 when entering the country. It's been this way for as far as I can remember, yet inflation has driven prices up, so in a way, the limit has actually gone down.
I know some people purchase cars on eBay (someone I know bought an exotic car without even looking at it, and had it shipped over.... let's just say he won't be doing this again) without so much as seeing them... but these people are fools.
A few years ago I sold an M5 on Craigslist. The buyer lived 1000 miles away, and I found out after the fact, was worth hundreds of millions (hard to tell for sure, but the guy had his own private mutual funds with bear stearns IIRC) and the guy flew down, inspected the vehicle, and drove it back up.
My point is that the issue of buying BTC, or anything really, anonymously, is not specific to BTC, and I don't see an attribute of BTC that makes it different than trading cash, or selling a car. It's probably even worse, since there is no recourse. Not to mention, looking at BTC trading, transactions this large would probably stand out, as BTC's market cap is nowhere near as large as USD (USD is so large, they stopped publishing the M3 indicator ;-))
I bought some BTC using Bitme. The max was USD500, which I deposited in cash at a local Chase branch. The whole experience was quick, painless, and easy. Since BitMe publishes the list of open buy/sell calls on their system, I noticed that it would have been impossible to purchase even USD5000 worth of BTC that day - there simply wasn't enough of it for sale. To acquire just USD5000 worth, someone would have to place a buy order at a much higher price than what BTC is "listed" as, and then perhaps sell orders at that price would come in.
This supports the argument that buying large amounts of BTC without being noticed is very hard, as I'm sure even a USD100k purchase of BTC would not go un noticed.
The only solution goes back to what was posted early on in this thread.... multiple small transactions.
i mean, if you had an opportunity to do a good $100,000 deal, it might be worth jumping on a plane and flying to the other side of the world for
You're not going to be able to carry $100,000 worth of currency out of the country/into the country with you and other methods of transferring currency aren't anonymous.
Mike Caldwell is always interested in promoting ways of buying and selling BTC which by-pass the exchanges.
You need to remember that there's a massive amount of gift card fraud going on and it's a common means of money laundering so it's being monitored more and more often now.
Finally... I am not offended in the least bit, as this is an internet forum, but many people would get angry over being called a scammer, even though your accusations are based on nothing (have I scammed anyone? no)
Tonight I will find all of the codes and put them all in a spreadsheet, then separate the 10k out. At this point I'll be ready to sell them. I will provide the code first, you can call Amazon, verify it, apply it to your account, and send the amount via BTC only once you have verified everything. I will only deal with members that have a high postcount for now, and will only do things in this order. I just need to figure out how much a regular high postcount member would be willing to sacrifice their account for, and set the threshold at something a little lower than that ;-)
I apologise for accusing you of being a scammer, innocent until proven guilty and all that.
I think your solutions sounds the best, you can try selling the lots on the forum here or use bitmit or ebay, Now you have elaborated a little, I think I understand your position, I'm sure you can find someone that would be a regular purchaser if you wanted to go that route. Maybe your associate could sell to someone here and pay you in bitcoin.
I'm sure you probably have a good "creative" accountant but i've noticed one or 2 on this forum looking for work. Anyway wish I could help but sounds like you've got it covered.
now this will seem off-topic because it's not about amazon gift cards...
but i was just going to say that 'localbitcoins' probably don't really have to be local if you're trading in huge amounts
i mean, if you had an opportunity to do a good $100,000 deal, it might be worth jumping on a plane and flying to the other side of the world for
but i was just going to say that 'localbitcoins' probably don't really have to be local if you're trading in huge amounts
i mean, if you had an opportunity to do a good $100,000 deal, it might be worth jumping on a plane and flying to the other side of the world for
I'm sorry but I'm gonna have to call bullshit, For a start any business minded person would not turn down profit, if its too much work then you find some Indian web developer and pay them to set you up and run a website for them or list them on ebay via a friend or proxy in another country.
You made it sound like u had physical cards, even if there just codes you can still easily put them in a company database to be emailed out as part of an incentive programme, u could even have them as prizes for a game / gambling site and make even more money.
Obviously you've come to this forum and seen that there is a demand among bitcoin users for amazon services and youve come up with the old scam, Obviously you want someone to sell these for you easily and in there name then when the payments come in you collect it quickly from the sucker seller before angry buyers start discovering there code is made up bs, thus leaving the seller in the shit and you with the money.
lol, no dude, when you've done business, and you've made enough cash that you have the luxury to sit around and do nothing, you turn down profit.You made it sound like u had physical cards, even if there just codes you can still easily put them in a company database to be emailed out as part of an incentive programme, u could even have them as prizes for a game / gambling site and make even more money.
Obviously you've come to this forum and seen that there is a demand among bitcoin users for amazon services and youve come up with the old scam, Obviously you want someone to sell these for you easily and in there name then when the payments come in you collect it quickly from the sucker seller before angry buyers start discovering there code is made up bs, thus leaving the seller in the shit and you with the money.
Do you pick up used soda cans everywhere you go? Do you see "businessmen" pick up bottles and cans from the trash as they walk around? Would you call that turning down profit?
See, the profit in these cards is actually very little - assuming 5% margin and $50k, there's only $2500 worth of profit assuming no expenses other than time.
I thought about starting a BTC to Amazon service, which would initially be funded via these cards, and I am still thinking about it, but I would be crazy to spend the time to build that kind of business just to make $2500.
Perhaps you are under the assumption that I acquired these cards for free? Not at all, I chose to receive them as form of payment from a business associate. I have used a lot of these, but this grew into an addiction, and daily deliveries of [insert random word here] which, over time, have started to make me feel guilty - guilty because I am buying shit solely for myself with these, guilty because all of the stuff that I've been buying is usually of very little use to me (I have 4 mini projectors....) or at the very least, it depreciates and will be worth nothing in a few years (and I don't like selling stuff, so chances are, I will have to look at these piles of electronics, friendly plastic, DIY things and tools, for ever, and feel more guilt)
After discussing the idea of starting a BTC-to-Amazon service, which would offer a 5% discount on purchases made in BTC on Amazon, with my associate who would be the source of the cards, I don't think that the idea is viable, at least, not worth the effort for me. No that I don't spend an incredible amount of time doing things that benefit me very little financially.... but running that kind of business hardly seems like any FUN... and I have enough financial freedom to pass on $10k/mo income if it's going to involve working 6h/day either dealing with some idiot programmers in Mumbai, Amazon returns (which would sitll have to got hrough me) and the added risk of a tax audit (not to mention the stress, and extra accounting expense due to this oddball business)
Sure, I can have them as prizes for a gambling site, but you see, if I had a gambling site, I would just buy the damn things, either here, or through a gift card broker.
Finally... I am not offended in the least bit, as this is an internet forum, but many people would get angry over being called a scammer, even though your accusations are based on nothing (have I scammed anyone? no)
Anyway, someone brought to my attention the fact that Amazon also has a site called AmazonSupply, which is like McMaster Carr. This is great, because we have the need for a bunch of parts to install a new reactor at one of my businesses (chemical reacor, not nuclear
) and it looks like Amazon Gift Cards, and Amazon Prime, carry over to the AmazonSupply site. this is why I have put a little over $10,000 aside and am now only offering $39,0000.Tonight I will find all of the codes and put them all in a spreadsheet, then separate the 10k out. At this point I'll be ready to sell them. I will provide the code first, you can call Amazon, verify it, apply it to your account, and send the amount via BTC only once you have verified everything. I will only deal with members that have a high postcount for now, and will only do things in this order. I just need to figure out how much a regular high postcount member would be willing to sacrifice their account for, and set the threshold at something a little lower than that ;-)
Yeah, true. Except my gift cards are codes you redeem on your account
It's a lot more complex than that, really, because the buyer needs to load up the cards into an amazon account to make sure that they are good. Only then would the transaction be complete... unless the guy is willing to trust that my codes work, or he is willing to call Amazon and verify every single one of them (not my idea of a good time!)
I think I might just end up buying 50k worth of "something" on Amazon, that I can resell easily. Any ideas, anyone?
It's a lot more complex than that, really, because the buyer needs to load up the cards into an amazon account to make sure that they are good. Only then would the transaction be complete... unless the guy is willing to trust that my codes work, or he is willing to call Amazon and verify every single one of them (not my idea of a good time!)
I think I might just end up buying 50k worth of "something" on Amazon, that I can resell easily. Any ideas, anyone?
Have you considered selling the cards on Bitcoinary ? You could create a trade and offer to buy BTC in exchange for the amazon cards. The escrow facility would protect protect the buyer, i.e. he can test the codes redeem before releasing the bitcoins.
Shoot, I forgot to mention -
I am not comfortable dealing with Amazon directly, no. For one, they could just tell me to get lost, and mark the cards, since technically, they cant be xferred. They can't prove that fact if I sell them, but if I tell them that they are all in my possession, I put myself at risk.
I have thought of the employee incentive scheme, and I've already used them at my own business. The thing is, I dont have physical cards, these are codes, so they are a ghetto present. Too much effort to print them.
Also too much effort to build up a site just to sell them. I can get maybe another $50k/worth per month but the amount of work involved depending on the order sizes, is too much, it seems. (I make more than that currently, and I barely have to work, just sayin' before someone comments it's a lot of $$ I'm missing out on etc.)
I am not comfortable dealing with Amazon directly, no. For one, they could just tell me to get lost, and mark the cards, since technically, they cant be xferred. They can't prove that fact if I sell them, but if I tell them that they are all in my possession, I put myself at risk.
I have thought of the employee incentive scheme, and I've already used them at my own business. The thing is, I dont have physical cards, these are codes, so they are a ghetto present. Too much effort to print them.
Also too much effort to build up a site just to sell them. I can get maybe another $50k/worth per month but the amount of work involved depending on the order sizes, is too much, it seems. (I make more than that currently, and I barely have to work, just sayin' before someone comments it's a lot of $$ I'm missing out on etc.)
I'm sorry but I'm gonna have to call bullshit, For a start any business minded person would not turn down profit, if its too much work then you find some Indian web developer and pay them to set you up and run a website for them or list them on ebay via a friend or proxy in another country.
You made it sound like u had physical cards, even if there just codes you can still easily put them in a company database to be emailed out as part of an incentive programme, u could even have them as prizes for a game / gambling site and make even more money.
Obviously you've come to this forum and seen that there is a demand among bitcoin users for amazon services and youve come up with the old scam, Obviously you want someone to sell these for you easily and in there name then when the payments come in you collect it quickly from the sucker seller before angry buyers start discovering there code is made up bs, thus leaving the seller in the shit and you with the money.
Shoot, I forgot to mention -
I am not comfortable dealing with Amazon directly, no. For one, they could just tell me to get lost, and mark the cards, since technically, they cant be xferred. They can't prove that fact if I sell them, but if I tell them that they are all in my possession, I put myself at risk.
I have thought of the employee incentive scheme, and I've already used them at my own business. The thing is, I dont have physical cards, these are codes, so they are a ghetto present. Too much effort to print them.
Also too much effort to build up a site just to sell them. I can get maybe another $50k/worth per month but the amount of work involved depending on the order sizes, is too much, it seems. (I make more than that currently, and I barely have to work, just sayin' before someone comments it's a lot of $$ I'm missing out on etc.)
I am not comfortable dealing with Amazon directly, no. For one, they could just tell me to get lost, and mark the cards, since technically, they cant be xferred. They can't prove that fact if I sell them, but if I tell them that they are all in my possession, I put myself at risk.
I have thought of the employee incentive scheme, and I've already used them at my own business. The thing is, I dont have physical cards, these are codes, so they are a ghetto present. Too much effort to print them.
Also too much effort to build up a site just to sell them. I can get maybe another $50k/worth per month but the amount of work involved depending on the order sizes, is too much, it seems. (I make more than that currently, and I barely have to work, just sayin' before someone comments it's a lot of $$ I'm missing out on etc.)
Well, I have $39k worth left now, and $22k in Walmart. I might get my lazy brother in law to sell them on Craigslist for cash... they'll go faster that way. Then use the cash and buy BTC, I guess.
Thanks for all the replies, guys. I think we should stay on topic out of respect for the OP - this is his post. Yes, I'm looking to acquire a large amount of BTC. I am going to run out of the bank now and deposit the max amount BitMe will allow me to deposit (USD500) as I have a purchase that can only be done in BTC that I need to have done today.
I'm not going to acquire all that BitCoin using my US dollars though.
Yes, I would offer a BTC-to-Amazon discount. Ultimately after much thinking and calling a couple people I know that are unemployed and wouldnt mind coming into work every day to place Amazon orders (they aint doing it from home) I think I might just sell them in bulk to someone who already has a BTC to Amazon business.
I will contact the place mentioned above, there is also a place I saw listed in the bitcoin.it directory. I will also respond to some offers I received by email.
I'd like to meet the buyer in person if possible, at my house (this will erase any doubt that I am not legit) but that isnt required I guess.
Anyway, running out to the bank now
I'm not going to acquire all that BitCoin using my US dollars though.
Yes, I would offer a BTC-to-Amazon discount. Ultimately after much thinking and calling a couple people I know that are unemployed and wouldnt mind coming into work every day to place Amazon orders (they aint doing it from home) I think I might just sell them in bulk to someone who already has a BTC to Amazon business.
I will contact the place mentioned above, there is also a place I saw listed in the bitcoin.it directory. I will also respond to some offers I received by email.
I'd like to meet the buyer in person if possible, at my house (this will erase any doubt that I am not legit) but that isnt required I guess.
Anyway, running out to the bank now
I'm sure you've probably considered this but is it not possible for you to sell / redeem these vouchers with Amazon itself as it's coming up on end of year and depending on there accounting methods they may want to turn liabilities into assets or visa versa.
Have you considered selling these to a mid sized company as an employee or customer incentive scheme?
You can buy bullion on amazon but it is overpriced (as are many things as amazon take around a 17% cut in sales)
What about listing them on ebay or wholesalers forums as a few joblots or do you need more anonymity?
Anyway I'm unemployed drop me a line if you think I could help.
Why not just sell the cards/codes on bitmit with escrow?
you're not going to reach large enough volume, I guess. You'd have to sell at quite a discount to sell the kind of amount needed.
Thanks for all the replies, guys. I think we should stay on topic out of respect for the OP - this is his post. Yes, I'm looking to acquire a large amount of BTC. I am going to run out of the bank now and deposit the max amount BitMe will allow me to deposit (USD500) as I have a purchase that can only be done in BTC that I need to have done today.
I'm not going to acquire all that BitCoin using my US dollars though.
Yes, I would offer a BTC-to-Amazon discount. Ultimately after much thinking and calling a couple people I know that are unemployed and wouldnt mind coming into work every day to place Amazon orders (they aint doing it from home) I think I might just sell them in bulk to someone who already has a BTC to Amazon business.
I will contact the place mentioned above, there is also a place I saw listed in the bitcoin.it directory. I will also respond to some offers I received by email.
I'd like to meet the buyer in person if possible, at my house (this will erase any doubt that I am not legit) but that isnt required I guess.
Anyway, running out to the bank now
I'm not going to acquire all that BitCoin using my US dollars though.
Yes, I would offer a BTC-to-Amazon discount. Ultimately after much thinking and calling a couple people I know that are unemployed and wouldnt mind coming into work every day to place Amazon orders (they aint doing it from home) I think I might just sell them in bulk to someone who already has a BTC to Amazon business.
I will contact the place mentioned above, there is also a place I saw listed in the bitcoin.it directory. I will also respond to some offers I received by email.
I'd like to meet the buyer in person if possible, at my house (this will erase any doubt that I am not legit) but that isnt required I guess.
Anyway, running out to the bank now
Why not just sell the cards/codes on bitmit with escrow?
Yeah, true. Except my gift cards are codes you redeem on your account
It's a lot more complex than that, really, because the buyer needs to load up the cards into an amazon account to make sure that they are good. Only then would the transaction be complete... unless the guy is willing to trust that my codes work, or he is willing to call Amazon and verify every single one of them (not my idea of a good time!)
I think I might just end up buying 50k worth of "something" on Amazon, that I can resell easily. Any ideas, anyone?
It's a lot more complex than that, really, because the buyer needs to load up the cards into an amazon account to make sure that they are good. Only then would the transaction be complete... unless the guy is willing to trust that my codes work, or he is willing to call Amazon and verify every single one of them (not my idea of a good time!)
I think I might just end up buying 50k worth of "something" on Amazon, that I can resell easily. Any ideas, anyone?
Hadn't you talked about the idea of making a site with amazon products with bitcoin prices and order them for people?
I kinda like that idea. If you would be willing to give a discount ("amazon now cheaper in bitcoins") it could work well, I think... lots of work for you, though.
Frenchfries, have you contacted any services like btcbuy.info that sell giftcards for BTC to see if they want to buy your giftcards at some reasonable discount? Or you could set up your own similar business.
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I think I might just end up buying 50k worth of "something" on Amazon, that I can resell easily.
This works too.
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the buyer needs to load up the cards into an amazon account to make sure that they are good. Only then would the transaction be complete
Sure. That seems even easier than having to physically ship the cards.
- seller sends BTC to intermediary
- intermediary gives you the go ahead to email GC codes to seller
- seller verifies GC codes to satisfaction
- intermediary sends you the BTC
Do you not think a trustworthy intermediary would be a viable solution? Why not? I admit it may be extremely difficult to find a trustworthy intermediary, but I think a service like LocalBitcoins.com could make that easier and easier.
I have seen mentions of places that will give you BTC if you deposit cash into an account at Chase, BofA, etc.
Can someone recommend one that is proven to work? I'll bite the bullet and deposit $1000.00 today to give it a shot. I might need the BTC later as "guarantee" to be deposited with a high-postcount member to offer some kind of guarantee for the GC trade
Can someone recommend one that is proven to work? I'll bite the bullet and deposit $1000.00 today to give it a shot. I might need the BTC later as "guarantee" to be deposited with a high-postcount member to offer some kind of guarantee for the GC trade
Yeah, true. Except my gift cards are codes you redeem on your account
It's a lot more complex than that, really, because the buyer needs to load up the cards into an amazon account to make sure that they are good. Only then would the transaction be complete... unless the guy is willing to trust that my codes work, or he is willing to call Amazon and verify every single one of them (not my idea of a good time!)
I think I might just end up buying 50k worth of "something" on Amazon, that I can resell easily. Any ideas, anyone?
It's a lot more complex than that, really, because the buyer needs to load up the cards into an amazon account to make sure that they are good. Only then would the transaction be complete... unless the guy is willing to trust that my codes work, or he is willing to call Amazon and verify every single one of them (not my idea of a good time!)
I think I might just end up buying 50k worth of "something" on Amazon, that I can resell easily. Any ideas, anyone?
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