How to buy Tons of Bitcoins and Drop the Price

DPoS

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Quote from: Peter R on March 29, 2014, 09:56:48 PM

Quote from: Elwar on March 29, 2014, 08:24:08 PM

That is the opposite of what I do.

Go to Walmart and buy a high priced item using my gyft gift card (paid for with bitcoins) which gives me a 3% discount.

Return the item and get 100% cash back.

Then use that cash to buy bitcoins on Bitstamp driving the price UP!

rinse and repeat

Wait a second. Does that actually work? You can arbitrage using the Gyft loyalty discount? That's pretty funny.

a lot of high price items have restocking fees.. you can get by a few times but this idea isn't going to make my much hay

and many times they will just make you keep store credit

even still.. 3% on a $2000 item is a whole $60.. unless you know someone who works there, or work there yourself, you won't be able to grind that many times

nidhogg1

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Quote from: durrrr on March 29, 2014, 10:31:36 PM

100,000 bitcoins would be 5million dollars do you think people really put that much on an exchange if they do they r foolish and we'll shouldn't have 5m

nice math

phelix

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Quote from: anu on March 29, 2014, 06:28:51 AM

Quote from: phelix on March 29, 2014, 03:03:25 AM

1. Buy lots of BTC from a large holders via a broker a price of "Bitstamp + 10"
2. Dump 10% of it on Bitstamp --> Price goes down
3. Rinse and repeat

I have a feeling it is happening right now.

Sounds like a viable strategy to make use of the fact that there are some early adopters with large stashes. Any evidence that this is happening?

I am pretty sure that Bitcoin brokers exist. "Bitstamp + 10" and "only orders larger than $100k" is rumor.

Quote from: Peter R on March 29, 2014, 02:18:41 PM

I think this would work until the large holders (EAs) selling at "Bitstamp + 10" get wise. If this is true, I expect we should see some very large market buys by the current dumpers once they've accumulated their hoard. With mark-to-market accounting, these large holders can possibly increase their mark-to-market net worth by more than the number of dollars used to later pump the price. In other words, once they've accumulated their hoard, they want slippage.

Rinse and repeat and the price keeps ratcheting up like a staircase.

Probably we have seen that before.

Quote from: ?? on ??

If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Yup. Probably nothing else to do about it. Still important for the whales considering to sell to know about this strategy.

Sawadekub

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very easy.. use reverse psychology.. i encourage people not to sell.. but i know most people will sell cuz they think i am bag holder i wanna be rich... but nope.. i short my bitcoins.. and earning like 8 times already this week LOL!

thanks guys!! free around 7+ btcs/// muakzzz i love u guys..

i still shorting till 455 LOL!.. but tomorrow onwards i gona long 500 =)

lemfuture

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question about 1. how to buy tons of bitcoins? im poor

durrrr

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100,000 bitcoins would be 5million dollars do you think people really put that much on an exchange if they do they r foolish and we'll shouldn't have 5m

seleme

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Quote from: Bit_Happy on March 29, 2014, 09:53:36 PM

Quote from: seleme on March 29, 2014, 09:20:52 PM

Quote from: Bit_Happy on March 29, 2014, 09:12:14 PM

Why blame unproven "manipulation" for natural human cycles of emotion?

Quote from: seleme on March 29, 2014, 06:18:55 PM

...No bear market could provide you with the amounts mentioned in this thread....

Yes, some Bear markets certainly can.
On high volume Bear market days Gox used to do a 24 hour volume of 125,000 BTC to even 250,000+ .
Just place various orders at low prices and watch the market fall.*
*Of course trading can be difficult and it's dangerous to keep huge amounts of money on exchanges, but that is a different subject.

Yes, but those 150-200 000 BTC were bought by hundreds of people, not one, two or 3 entities.

Someone here mentioned potential 100k BTC deal, you can't buy that easy on the exchange.

Agreed.
Many things are not easy.
1) In a down trend you do not need "excess manipulation" to get good prices.
2) On a dramatic day with 250,000+ volume one person (with orders at several prices) could buy 100,000+ as the market falls.

I know there are many bots, whales and attempts at market manipulation.
~~Sometimes~~ Usually the real explanation is Greed vs Fear.

But it's much better on the way OP suggests. You get them easy at one price, usually better than current exchange price for such quantity. then you sell some at current exchange rate and rebuy lower, than buy the another bunch of the exchange.

Yeah, this is probably fantasy as I doubt anyone is buying that amounts at this point but if it would be required to buy let's say million coins than it's nice way to make better average in faster frame of time.

Peter R

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Quote from: Elwar on March 29, 2014, 08:24:08 PM

That is the opposite of what I do.

Go to Walmart and buy a high priced item using my gyft gift card (paid for with bitcoins) which gives me a 3% discount.

Return the item and get 100% cash back.

Then use that cash to buy bitcoins on Bitstamp driving the price UP!

rinse and repeat

Wait a second. Does that actually work? You can arbitrage using the Gyft loyalty discount? That's pretty funny.

Bit_Happy

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A Great Time to Start Something!

Quote from: seleme on March 29, 2014, 09:20:52 PM

Quote from: Bit_Happy on March 29, 2014, 09:12:14 PM

Why blame unproven "manipulation" for natural human cycles of emotion?

Quote from: seleme on March 29, 2014, 06:18:55 PM

...No bear market could provide you with the amounts mentioned in this thread....

Yes, some Bear markets certainly can.
On high volume Bear market days Gox used to do a 24 hour volume of 125,000 BTC to even 250,000+ .
Just place various orders at low prices and watch the market fall.*
*Of course trading can be difficult and it's dangerous to keep huge amounts of money on exchanges, but that is a different subject.

Yes, but those 150-200 000 BTC were bought by hundreds of people, not one, two or 3 entities.

Someone here mentioned potential 100k BTC deal, you can't buy that easy on the exchange.

Agreed.
Many things are not easy.
1) In a down trend you do not need "excess manipulation" to get good prices.
2) On a dramatic day with 250,000+ volume one person (with orders at several prices) could buy 100,000+ as the market falls.

I know there are many bots, whales and attempts at market manipulation.
~~Sometimes~~ Usually the real explanation is Greed vs Fear.

seleme

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Quote from: Bit_Happy on March 29, 2014, 09:12:14 PM

Why blame unproven "manipulation" for natural human cycles of emotion?

Quote from: seleme on March 29, 2014, 06:18:55 PM

...No bear market could provide you with the amounts mentioned in this thread....

Yes, some Bear markets certainly can.
On high volume Bear market days Gox used to do a 24 hour volume of 125,000 BTC to even 250,000+ .
Just place various orders at low prices and watch the market fall.*
*Of course trading can be difficult and it's dangerous to keep huge amounts of money on exchanges, but that is a different subject.

Yes, but those 150-200 000 BTC were bought by hundreds of people, not one, two or 3 entities.

Someone here mentioned potential 100k BTC deal, you can't buy that easy on the exchange.

Bit_Happy

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A Great Time to Start Something!

Why blame unproven "manipulation" for natural human cycles of emotion?

Quote from: seleme on March 29, 2014, 06:18:55 PM

...No bear market could provide you with the amounts mentioned in this thread....

Yes, some Bear markets certainly can.
On high volume Bear market days Gox used to do a 24 hour volume of 125,000 BTC to even 250,000+ .
Just place various orders at low prices and watch the market fall.*
*Of course trading can be difficult and it's dangerous to keep huge amounts of money on exchanges, but that is a different subject.

Elwar

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Viva Ut Vivas

That is the opposite of what I do.

Go to Walmart and buy a high priced item using my gyft gift card (paid for with bitcoins) which gives me a 3% discount.

Return the item and get 100% cash back.

Then use that cash to buy bitcoins on Bitstamp driving the price UP!

rinse and repeat

seleme

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Activity: 2772

Merit: 1028

Duelbits.com

Quote from: Bit_Happy on March 29, 2014, 05:53:52 PM

We are in a Bear cycle, so this type of stunt isn't needed.
Hopefully soon the bottom will be set.

It is if you want huge number of coins. No bear market could provide you with the amounts mentioned in this thread.

I don't know if this is being done but it's interesting theory and idea.

Bit_Happy

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A Great Time to Start Something!

We are in a Bear cycle, so this type of stunt isn't needed.
Hopefully soon the bottom will be set.

oda.krell

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Quote from: aminorex on March 29, 2014, 04:14:59 PM

Quote from: dropt on March 29, 2014, 02:48:36 PM

Quote from: billyjoeallen on March 29, 2014, 06:38:22 AM

Small problem. Large holders know that market price is currently under the cost of mining. Miners, old holders don't sell under those conditions.

Your strategy loses money unless you know you can buy back in lower. That is less certain the lower market price goes. Also, you could drive the whole market into a prolongued downtrend that would take years to break even. You can sheer a sheep many times, but skin him only once.

Slight problem with your assumption. Cost per coin when mining is nowhere near the current market rate.

You keep saying that, but I am disbelieving you. Existing miners don't really matter. What matters is marginal supply, and that is determined by a miner starting today. They face exponential difficulty raises. It costs 3500 USD to generate 1 btc/wk at retail pricing, and the output degrades by a factor of 1.016 every day. If you've already paid for your hardware, yes, you can sell for the cost of electricity. But that's (1) foolish and (2) not a significant fraction of the mined supply. Most hashing power is new hashing power, which has not paid for itself, and may never pay for itself unless the price is over $1000/coin.

Bottom line: Most of the mined coins each day are being awarded to people who cannot sell without a loss below $1000.

I think it's safe to say that big mining operations (> 1 petahash) operate on a substantially lower cost basis per coin than your quote.

aminorex

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Quote from: dropt on March 29, 2014, 02:48:36 PM

Quote from: billyjoeallen on March 29, 2014, 06:38:22 AM

Small problem. Large holders know that market price is currently under the cost of mining. Miners, old holders don't sell under those conditions.

Your strategy loses money unless you know you can buy back in lower. That is less certain the lower market price goes. Also, you could drive the whole market into a prolongued downtrend that would take years to break even. You can sheer a sheep many times, but skin him only once.

Slight problem with your assumption. Cost per coin when mining is nowhere near the current market rate.

You keep saying that, but I am disbelieving you. Existing miners don't really matter. What matters is marginal supply, and that is determined by a miner starting today. They face exponential difficulty raises. It costs 3500 USD to generate 1 btc/wk at retail pricing, and the output degrades by a factor of 1.016 every day. If you've already paid for your hardware, yes, you can sell for the cost of electricity. But that's (1) foolish and (2) not a significant fraction of the mined supply. Most hashing power is new hashing power, which has not paid for itself, and may never pay for itself unless the price is over $1000/coin.

Bottom line: Most of the mined coins each day are being awarded to people who cannot sell without a loss below $1000.

dropt

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Quote from: billyjoeallen on March 29, 2014, 06:38:22 AM

Small problem. Large holders know that market price is currently under the cost of mining. Miners, old holders don't sell under those conditions.

Your strategy loses money unless you know you can buy back in lower. That is less certain the lower market price goes. Also, you could drive the whole market into a prolongued downtrend that would take years to break even. You can sheer a sheep many times, but skin him only once.

Slight problem with your assumption. Cost per coin when mining is nowhere near the current market rate.

Peter R

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Quote from: phelix on March 29, 2014, 03:03:25 AM

1. Buy lots of BTC from a large holders via a broker a price of "Bitstamp + 10"
2. Dump 10% of it on Bitstamp --> Price goes down
3. Rinse and repeat

I have a feeling it is happening right now.

I think this would work until the large holders (EAs) selling at "Bitstamp + 10" get wise. If this is true, I expect we should see some very large market buys by the current dumpers once they've accumulated their hoard. With mark-to-market accounting, these large holders can possibly increase their mark-to-market net worth by more than the number of dollars used to later pump the price. In other words, once they've accumulated their hoard, they want slippage.

Rinse and repeat and the price keeps ratcheting up like a staircase.

anu

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Quote from: billyjoeallen on March 29, 2014, 06:38:22 AM

Small problem. Large holders know that market price is currently under the cost of mining. Miners, old holders don't sell under those conditions.

Your strategy loses money unless you know you can buy back in lower. That is less certain the lower market price goes. Also, you could drive the whole market into a prolongued downtrend that would take years to break even. You can sheer a sheep many times, but skin him only once.

I think you misunderstand the idea. This is about how to buy very large sums (BTC 100,000+) without driving the price up, in fact, driving the price down. For example someone selling 5000 Bitcoin @ 550 OTC thinks he gets a good deal. 500 of these coins can then be used to drive the price to 480 so the next seller of 5000 would get a price of only $528. OTOH if you would buy 100,000 at Bitstamp, the price would go to $800 or higher.

podyx

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Topic: How to buy Tons of Bitcoins and Drop the Price (Read 2721 times)