Topic: How to create bills on the cheap (Read 3108 times)
Yes, "double spend" by physical duplication is impossible to detect reliably in physical transactions with no corresponding block chain record.
You could use 100s of the failed currencies of the world and get them for less than a penny each. Zambia has some beautiful currency. They even sell them on ebay.
But this doesn't solve the problem of the BTC bills being easy to forge - if you can buy these old notes cheap - so can someone who wants to copy your note and issue it without any value inside.
You could use 100s of the failed currencies of the world and get them for less than a penny each. Zambia has some beautiful currency. They even sell them on ebay.
Don't you guys have the polomomer based paper?
Here's an experiment to try. Print key codes on fiat currency and release it back into the wild. Wait and see how long it takes before the amount is redeemed. This may help spread awareness.
THat is actually freaking brilliant. And you could take back the money if too much time went by.
A lot of people would need to be doing it for anyone to notice...there are a lot of pieces of paper out there.
And it would be somewhat difficult to print a unique code on each bill, for most people.
I thought the same thing, but WheresGeorge.com does it. However, after looking into it still illegal.
"Defacement of currency is a violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code. Under this provision, currency defacement is generally defined as follows: Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both. "
http://www.moneyfactory.gov/historicallegislation.html
Take this idea and run with it. Rip a bill in half and print bitcoin on them.
Would printing BTC on them be 'mutilating'?
Defacing, yes... illegal
Unfit to be reissued? If you use holograms I'd think yes. Otherwise?
Doubtful they would get destroyed immediatly, here in canada, they get taped (poorly) and stappled back together and still go through the ringer and get spit out of a bank machine.. I work with the banks and their cash, its amazing how horrible they get before being set aside to be destroyed..
Here's an experiment to try. Print key codes on fiat currency and release it back into the wild. Wait and see how long it takes before the amount is redeemed. This may help spread awareness.
THat is actually freaking brilliant. And you could take back the money if too much time went by.
A lot of people would need to be doing it for anyone to notice...there are a lot of pieces of paper out there.
And it would be somewhat difficult to print a unique code on each bill, for most people.
I thought the same thing, but WheresGeorge.com does it. However, after looking into it still illegal.
"Defacement of currency is a violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code. Under this provision, currency defacement is generally defined as follows: Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both. "
http://www.moneyfactory.gov/historicallegislation.html
Take this idea and run with it. Rip a bill in half and print bitcoin on them.
Would printing BTC on them be 'mutilating'?
Defacing, yes... illegal
Unfit to be reissued? If you use holograms I'd think yes. Otherwise?
Here's an experiment to try. Print key codes on fiat currency and release it back into the wild. Wait and see how long it takes before the amount is redeemed. This may help spread awareness.
THat is actually freaking brilliant. And you could take back the money if too much time went by.
A lot of people would need to be doing it for anyone to notice...there are a lot of pieces of paper out there.
And it would be somewhat difficult to print a unique code on each bill, for most people.
I thought the same thing, but WheresGeorge.com does it. However, after looking into it still illegal.
"Defacement of currency is a violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code. Under this provision, currency defacement is generally defined as follows: Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both. "
http://www.moneyfactory.gov/historicallegislation.html
Take this idea and run with it. Rip a bill in half and print bitcoin on them.
Would printing BTC on them be 'mutilating'?
Defacing, yes... illegal
Here's an experiment to try. Print key codes on fiat currency and release it back into the wild. Wait and see how long it takes before the amount is redeemed. This may help spread awareness.
THat is actually freaking brilliant. And you could take back the money if too much time went by.
A lot of people would need to be doing it for anyone to notice...there are a lot of pieces of paper out there.
And it would be somewhat difficult to print a unique code on each bill, for most people.
I thought the same thing, but WheresGeorge.com does it. However, after looking into it still illegal.
"Defacement of currency is a violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code. Under this provision, currency defacement is generally defined as follows: Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both. "
http://www.moneyfactory.gov/historicallegislation.html
Take this idea and run with it. Rip a bill in half and print bitcoin on them.
Would printing BTC on them be 'mutilating'?
Here's an experiment to try. Print key codes on fiat currency and release it back into the wild. Wait and see how long it takes before the amount is redeemed. This may help spread awareness.
THat is actually freaking brilliant. And you could take back the money if too much time went by.
A lot of people would need to be doing it for anyone to notice...there are a lot of pieces of paper out there.
And it would be somewhat difficult to print a unique code on each bill, for most people.
I thought the same thing, but WheresGeorge.com does it. However, after looking into it still illegal.
"Defacement of currency is a violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code. Under this provision, currency defacement is generally defined as follows: Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both. "
http://www.moneyfactory.gov/historicallegislation.html
Take this idea and run with it. Rip a bill in half and print bitcoin on them.
I'm still trying to figure out how to make it so that it can't be copied to look exactly the same, numbers and all, so two physical 1BTC bills exist for one digital one. That part actually worries me, that we may end up with 21M Bitcoins, and maybe 40M total Bitcoins including physical ones in circulation.
create a bitbill for 1.00 btc. Have a DB at trusted central server.
on bill, have 12 scratchoffs. This particular bill has 12 A-z on the scratchoff, while under the scratchoff has A-z as well.
You hand the bill to someone, he puts in the 12 char code at central server to confirm 1.00 btc. In this case, it is:
A B C D E F G H I 5 4 3
He then secretly scratches off 1-12 boxes (his choice), which reveal a new code. In this case he scratches off 2 to make the new code, and tells the server what he did:
A B Q D E F G 8 I 5 4 3
The central server now needs this new code to redeem. Even if the bill was compromised, the first person wouldn't know what was scratched off.
W/O scratchoffs, you can just keep appending a prior code. Maybe each new merchant could attach a new QR code (sticker/print) w/20 random chars.
on bill, have 12 scratchoffs. This particular bill has 12 A-z on the scratchoff, while under the scratchoff has A-z as well.
You hand the bill to someone, he puts in the 12 char code at central server to confirm 1.00 btc. In this case, it is:
A B C D E F G H I 5 4 3
He then secretly scratches off 1-12 boxes (his choice), which reveal a new code. In this case he scratches off 2 to make the new code, and tells the server what he did:
A B Q D E F G 8 I 5 4 3
The central server now needs this new code to redeem. Even if the bill was compromised, the first person wouldn't know what was scratched off.
W/O scratchoffs, you can just keep appending a prior code. Maybe each new merchant could attach a new QR code (sticker/print) w/20 random chars.
I love what you are trying to do. I will add this into the equation.
If talking about US currency as a fiat currency, it is only illegal if you edit the money with a fraudulent intent, or use the modified money fraudulently. Like adding two zeros after a one (making it 100) and using it as a 100$ bill. That's how the 'where's geroge' thing isn't illegal.
If talking about US currency as a fiat currency, it is only illegal if you edit the money with a fraudulent intent, or use the modified money fraudulently. Like adding two zeros after a one (making it 100) and using it as a 100$ bill. That's how the 'where's geroge' thing isn't illegal.
Don't ever mess with the us dollar or create any that can be confused with it. It's the fed's product and they don't take kindly to people messing with. The laws are vague enough that anything you do to the dollar is risky.
Don't get bitcoin involved either.
Don't get bitcoin involved either.
Here's an experiment to try. Print key codes on fiat currency and release it back into the wild. Wait and see how long it takes before the amount is redeemed. This may help spread awareness.
THat is actually freaking brilliant. And you could take back the money if too much time went by.
A lot of people would need to be doing it for anyone to notice...there are a lot of pieces of paper out there.
And it would be somewhat difficult to print a unique code on each bill, for most people.
I thought the same thing, but WheresGeorge.com does it. However, after looking into it still illegal.
"Defacement of currency is a violation of Title 18, Section 333 of the United States Code. Under this provision, currency defacement is generally defined as follows: Whoever mutilates, cuts, disfigures, perforates, unites or cements together, or does any other thing to any bank bill, draft, note, or other evidence of debt issued by any national banking association, Federal Reserve Bank, or Federal Reserve System, with intent to render such item(s) unfit to be reissued, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than six months, or both. "
http://www.moneyfactory.gov/historicallegislation.html
At bit of searching finds:
Still looking for the original source.
Quote
"Whoever fraudulently alters, defaces, mutilates, impairs, diminishes, falsifies, scales, or lightens any of the coins coined at the mints of the United States, or any foreign coins which are by law made current or are in actual use or circulation as money within the United States; or whoever fraudulently possesses, passes, utters, publishes, or sells, or attempts to pass, utter, publish, or sell, or brings into the United States, any such coin, knowing the same to be altered, defaced, mutilated, impaired, diminished, falsified, scaled, or lightened- Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both."
This has been interpreted to apply to all moneys. So yes, it is illegal, but it's not enforced unless you are trying to counterfeit money. That's where the word fraudulently applies in the law.
This has been interpreted to apply to all moneys. So yes, it is illegal, but it's not enforced unless you are trying to counterfeit money. That's where the word fraudulently applies in the law.
Still looking for the original source.
Here's an experiment to try. Print key codes on fiat currency and release it back into the wild. Wait and see how long it takes before the amount is redeemed. This may help spread awareness.
THat is actually freaking brilliant. And you could take back the money if too much time went by.
A lot of people would need to be doing it for anyone to notice...there are a lot of pieces of paper out there.
And it would be somewhat difficult to print a unique code on each bill, for most people.
I have an idea, what about sponsored bills?
I would highly subsidize the cost for bills printed with my BitInstant Logo on it, that I can sell, give to friends, or anything like that.
Lets make it happen!!
I would highly subsidize the cost for bills printed with my BitInstant Logo on it, that I can sell, give to friends, or anything like that.
Lets make it happen!!
You are getting warmer. I have a plan similar to this.
LOL warmer to what? I wanna do this now!!
How are they going to spend their paper Bitcoin on your website?
They aren't. I can sell, give to friends, or anything like that.
Heh, I was thinking you were a retailer. It actually makes a lot of sense for exchanges to have printable bills. I'm surprised mtgox hasn't thought of this for their redeemable codes.
I'm sure they have, but think about it. Going from an eCurrency to a 'MtGox Real Currency' that theoretically people can physically buy and sell which can become a legal issue.
Think about if I opened a real store and only took MtGox Dollars, or TradeHill Kroner (Love the sound of that) I think the exchanges could get mixed into some legal issues.
I'm not sure of the EXACT legalities, so if anyone else has more insight...please contribute!
I have an idea, what about sponsored bills?
I would highly subsidize the cost for bills printed with my BitInstant Logo on it, that I can sell, give to friends, or anything like that.
Lets make it happen!!
I would highly subsidize the cost for bills printed with my BitInstant Logo on it, that I can sell, give to friends, or anything like that.
Lets make it happen!!
You are getting warmer. I have a plan similar to this.
LOL warmer to what? I wanna do this now!!
How are they going to spend their paper Bitcoin on your website?
They aren't. I can sell, give to friends, or anything like that.
Heh, I was thinking you were a retailer. It actually makes a lot of sense for exchanges to have printable bills. I'm surprised mtgox hasn't thought of this for their redeemable codes.
I have an idea, what about sponsored bills?
I would highly subsidize the cost for bills printed with my BitInstant Logo on it, that I can sell, give to friends, or anything like that.
Lets make it happen!!
I would highly subsidize the cost for bills printed with my BitInstant Logo on it, that I can sell, give to friends, or anything like that.
Lets make it happen!!
You are getting warmer. I have a plan similar to this.
LOL warmer to what? I wanna do this now!!
How are they going to spend their paper Bitcoin on your website?
They aren't. I can sell, give to friends, or anything like that.
I have an idea, what about sponsored bills?
I would highly subsidize the cost for bills printed with my BitInstant Logo on it, that I can sell, give to friends, or anything like that.
Lets make it happen!!
I would highly subsidize the cost for bills printed with my BitInstant Logo on it, that I can sell, give to friends, or anything like that.
Lets make it happen!!
You are getting warmer. I have a plan similar to this.
LOL warmer to what? I wanna do this now!!
How are they going to spend their paper Bitcoin on your website?
I think he's looking at them as an advertising method
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