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Topic: How to identify a bitcointard - page 2. (Read 4049 times)

legendary
Activity: 1568
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November 06, 2014, 01:00:02 PM
#49
as for the tech, well il have to let you read up on that.. dont want to turn this into an essay. all i will say is that its going to have massive implications for other coins.
Phew, for a moment there I was afraid you might actually try to back up your claims this time!

its still not open source so no matter what i say, it will be argued that what i say is not correct or i will be smeared in some way because of it.. much like what you just said..
hero member
Activity: 784
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November 06, 2014, 12:54:43 PM
#48
as for the tech, well il have to let you read up on that.. dont want to turn this into an essay. all i will say is that its going to have massive implications for other coins.
Phew, for a moment there I was afraid you might actually try to back up your claims this time! Seriously though, two years from now no one will know what NEM is, no one will know it ever existed (if this theoretical coin ever even does!)

By the way, calling a protocol (a knockoff protocol at that) a "movement" is full retard.
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1002
November 06, 2014, 12:49:06 PM
#47
thats pretty much impossible to know unless you wana go through all the history of trading and work it out.. what i can say is that during the day or two prior to nems launch of trading on the asset exchange, nxt saw a 6m dollar increase in market cap and nem, on the first day of trading, did > 3/4 of the trading volume in dollars than nxt did on the same day.

So this is completely inaccurate?

http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/nemstake/

So you are suggesting that there are up to 4k people interested in NEM and you are boasting about this? This doesn't mean that NEM is worth 3 million or anything close to 3 million has been invested in NEM. Market cap is very inaccurate figure to judge the true value of the currency or its future potential. Do you understand this point?

Market Adoption by users and merchants, the amount of developers, Amount of investments, and brand recognition all are better indicators of the value in a currency.

i agree its inaccurate but people have a tendency to ignore what gives a coin value.. like distribution.. like teck.. like network effect.. like innovation.. like pace of development.. all things that nem is excelling in at such an early stage. price is TOTALLY unrelated to future potential.. the point i was making by bringing up the cap is that if no one gave a crap about nem it would be nearly worthless if not totally worthless which it is not.

As for your second point, i agree also but at such an early stage its difficult to judge a platform on such factors. there are certain things that have not been announced yet that i know would send the price flying up but those announcements are being withheld for now because it would be too soon to announce them.

as for developers their are 5 core developers all extremely tallented and a long list of other developers who wanted to join the core team, 6 marketing/promo team member and a lot of other people coding up network spamming bots for testing, others working on block explorers and various other things. the majority of alt coins are lucky to have more than one dev and maybe one promo guy. i know this isnt even comparable to the amount of people working on bitcoin but nem hasnt even launched yet never mind had 5 years of development.

its impossible for nem to have any merchant adoption yet for obvious reason but that does not mean that nem is not working on that already. also stuff that hasnt been announced so wont go into that.

as for the tech, well il have to let you read up on that.. dont want to turn this into an essay. all i will say is that its going to have massive implications for other coins. PoS coins have already put forward technical plans/ideas to "compete" with or mimic proof of importance much like the way bitcoin has come up with side chains to compete or devour "app" coins.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 501
November 06, 2014, 12:29:44 PM
#46
thats pretty much impossible to know unless you wana go through all the history of trading and work it out.. what i can say is that during the day or two prior to nems launch of trading on the asset exchange, nxt saw a 6m dollar increase in market cap and nem, on the first day of trading, did > 3/4 of the trading volume in dollars than nxt did on the same day.

So this is completely inaccurate?

http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/nemstake/

So you are suggesting that there are up to 4k people interested in NEM and you are boasting about this? This doesn't mean that NEM is worth 3 million or anything close to 3 million has been invested in NEM. Market cap is very inaccurate figure to judge the true value of the currency or its future potential. Do you understand this point?

Market Adoption by users and merchants, the amount of developers, Amount of investments, and brand recognition all are better indicators of the value in a currency.
legendary
Activity: 4228
Merit: 1313
November 06, 2014, 12:14:47 PM
#45
Feel free to continue the list.

Comes up with terms like bitcointard.

This. And,

Starts a thread like this.
legendary
Activity: 3556
Merit: 9709
#1 VIP Crypto Casino
November 06, 2014, 12:07:26 PM
#44
Somebody who bought in as a very early investor & cashed out way too early (missing a huge chance to make some serious cash).
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1002
November 06, 2014, 12:04:04 PM
#43
if no one cared why the hell does it have a 3m+ market cap prior to launch.. if you opened your eyes for even 5 mins you would know.

Marketcap is a misleading valuation on a currency and the same could be said about Bitcoin. Let's be honest. If 100 million of BTC hit the exchanges at once the price of bitcoin would crash to almost nothing. All other alts should equally be humbled by this fact as they represent a fraction of Bitcoins marketcap.

I could fork bitcoin, get a few friend together to buy some stake in a new alt and instantly have a marketcap higher than BTC if I was calculating the unsold stake at the same rate as the sold stake.

Are you suggesting people have actually invested 3 million usd into NEM?

Why do I see $ 303,484 ?

http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/nemstake/

no im not suggesting that.

3000 stake holders signed up for stakes, sock puppet removal using taint analysis removed a huge amount of socks and then sock stakes were given to people on a waiting list (after thay paid a trivial fee). it was requested that stakes be issued to stake holders on the nxt asset exchange months ago so that people could trade their stakes.. 1000 stakes were issued and only around 775 claimed their stake.. trading has been based on the knowledge that there will be 4000 stakes released(4 billion nem) so the fact that there is 4000 stakes has been, for the most part, priced in.. this can be proven too because as people are redeeming their stakes the sever and rapid drop in the number of stakes available for trading the price has not had any drastic change along with the drop. 1 stake is worth 39k nxt or ~2.29 btc..  ((39000*0.000058)*4000)*350 = $3,166,800

its not manipulation of price either because those 775 assets(stakes) that were issued were sent to 775 (mostly) unique users.

as for how much has been invested into nem, thats pretty much impossible to know unless you wana go through all the history of trading and work it out.. what i can say is that during the day or two prior to nems launch of trading on the asset exchange, nxt saw a 6m dollar increase in market cap and nem, on the first day of trading, did > 3/4 of the trading volume in dollars than nxt did on the same day.

try the tech.. look at the distribution stats and look at them with unbiased eyes and you will see why nem blows every other alt coin out of the water for so many different reasons.  if it wasnt for nem i too would probably be entirely invested in only bitcoin as i do not see any long term potential in any other alts but there comes a point when you must realise that better things can and will come.

before you bring up the 3000 stake holders 4000 stakes.. 10% is going to be split between 5 devs, possibly more people.. idk..  5% to fund ecosystem projects and 5% marketing costs and 5% something else or something like that..

distribution stats can be seen here: https://forum.nemcoin.com/index.php?topic=2518.msg6464#msg6464

that was done just prior to the start of AE stake redemption.
hero member
Activity: 658
Merit: 501
November 06, 2014, 11:37:46 AM
#42
if no one cared why the hell does it have a 3m+ market cap prior to launch.. if you opened your eyes for even 5 mins you would know.

Marketcap is a misleading valuation on a currency and the same could be said about Bitcoin. Let's be honest. If 100 million of BTC hit the exchanges at once the price of bitcoin would crash to almost nothing. All other alts should equally be humbled by this fact as they represent a fraction of Bitcoins marketcap.

I could fork bitcoin, get a few friend together to buy some stake in a new alt and instantly have a marketcap higher than BTC if I was calculating the unsold stake at the same rate as the sold stake.

Are you suggesting people have actually invested 3 million usd into NEM?

Why do I see $ 303,484 ?

http://coinmarketcap.com/assets/nemstake/
legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1002
November 06, 2014, 11:33:16 AM
#41
we will see who is right after nem launches..
Looking forward to it. Must be some really outstanding technology you've got there, wonder why virtually no one cares?

if no one cared why the hell does it have a 3m+ market cap prior to launch.. if you opened your eyes for even 5 mins you would know.
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1000
Bitcoin
November 06, 2014, 11:29:15 AM
#40
Feel free to continue the list.

Comes up with terms like bitcointard.

basically this ^^ .
hero member
Activity: 784
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November 06, 2014, 11:26:31 AM
#39
we will see who is right after nem launches..
We will see 6 months after it launches, that much is certain. Looking forward to it. Must be some really outstanding technology you've got there, wonder why virtually no one cares?

Liquidity Cannot Be Designed

Liquidity, which is required for anything to be used as a currency, cannot be built into a protocol. It does not matter how brilliantly designed an altcoin is and what cool features it has. Its value depends on a factor that is outside its designer’s control, something more characteristic of the “spontaneous order” of the market than an intrinsic property of the currency.

Bitcoin and the dollar have very different properties, so it is possible to explain Bitcoin’s success in competition with the dollar despite the network effect of the dollar in light of those different properties. However, cryptocurrencies do not have very different properties from one another, so there is very little basis to predict that an altcoin can successfully compete with Bitcoin. In the case of, for example, as Bitcoin and Litecoin, I see no evidence in reality or in my understanding of human psychology that investors should see the difference in their mining algorithms or confirmation times as remotely important. The factor of roughly twenty by which Bitcoin’s market cap outweighs Litecoin’s is by far the biggest difference between them. Right now Bitcoin is growing by supplanting the national currencies, but eventually will absorb the altcoins as well. Bitcoin will gobble up Litecoin at some point, but I do not know if it will be the appetizer or the dessert.

A new altcoin cannot survive with only a fraction of the cryptocurrency pie. It must defeat everything else to succeed, including Bitcoin. Since it begins at an extreme disadvantage with respect to Bitcoin, it cannot succeed with technology that is marginally superior to Bitcoin. It must be as significant an advance over Bitcoin as Bitcoin is over the dollar.

Analogy to Social Networks

For currency investors, the network effect is absolute because it is impossible to buy bitcoins and some altcoin with the same money. This is why analogies to other network effects, such as that between social networks like Facebook and G+, are spurious. It is possible to leverage the benefit of Facebook and G+ at the same time. I can, for example, write a single status update and then post it to both social networks at almost no additional cost.

Furthermore, there is very little long-term investment in the use of a social network. New status updates lose all value in hours. Message boards come and go. All it takes is to ignore Facebook for a few weeks before there is little to draw one back to it. The network effect for social networks is therefore tiny compared to that of currencies.

Intellectually Barren

So far, altcoiners have been able to continue creating and mining altcoins without having to justify themselves very clearly. The responses I have heard to my arguments against them have been terribly inadequate: I get either a non sequitur (“Scrypt is ASIC-resistant”) a misunderstanding of the network effect (as with Vitalik’s piece) or a vapid, inappropriate skepticism (“How can you be absolutely certain that Bitcoin will win?”3).

I have never even heard any positive argument for any altcoin that explains why a majority of Bitcoin investors should sell and buy the new coin, or why enough new investors should reject Bitcoin and invest in the new one, in spite of the enormous advantage that Bitcoin already has.

Altcoin Investment Psychology

The present popularity of altcoins should be explained in terms of foolishness and hubris because it cannot be explained rationally.

As investors look at a new altcoin that has come out, they might think to themselves, “This cryptocurrency network is innovative, perhaps this means it will do well.” They might buy in at that point, or they might think a little harder and continue, “But wait. Bitcoin has the much larger network and is therefore objectively more useful as a currency than this new altcoin, despite its innovative features. If I decide to buy some, I would have to sell some of my bitcoins for it, so there is a real opportunity cost. Furthermore, the only way it can win is if all the other investors also switch. Will they or won’t they?”

At the same time, many of the other investors will be thinking the same thing. They will think about the fact that the rest are thinking it too. They will think, “No reasonable person would expect this coin to have any but a small chance of success. But since it can only succeed if lots of people really believe in it, this ensures that it cannot be successful because if no one buys more than a small gamble, then its failure is virtually guaranteed.” If they stop thinking there, they will stick with Bitcoin.

However, they might also think something along the lines of, “It’s quite possible that this altcoin will have an extra jolt in price during the next Bitcoin mania because some people may buy it either because they were not intelligent enough to follow the same train of thought as me or because they too, like me, realize that it may attract people who can be preyed upon. However, that is a risky proposition because it will be hard to know if I am the one preying upon suckers or if I am a sucker myself.” They will then either buy it or not depending on their own confidence in their ability to predict the behavior of foolish people.

Thus, altcoin investment ends up as a dynamic interplay between people who have not thought very far ahead, and people who think they are taking advantage of other people.

The Bursting of the Bubble

The more that altcoiners are asked for valid self-justifications, and the more they are asked how their new coin will achieve liquidity, the less effective their arguments will become, the less hype they will be able to generate, and the less that people will buy them. To defeat the altcoin movement, keep warning newbies against them and insist upon relevant arguments every time an altcoiner tries to change the subject.

The irrationality that props up the prices of altcoins cannot continue indefinitely. As soon as enough investors learn to think far enough ahead to wonder who the sucker is, the prices of the altcoins will begin to drop inexorably. We can make this happen sooner than later. I would like to see a more concerted effort within the Bitcoin movement to demand valid answers and to denounce as charlatans those who cannot give them.

I don’t think it is right to let the altcoin bubble continue without trying to stop it. Altcoins will cause a lot of people to lose money and for a lot of people to make money who are not adding value. Many who are already invested will lose, but I would prefer at least that there will be no more.

Although I cannot be certain, and I am, like everyone, prone to wishful thinking, I think that there is some indication that the altcoin movement is playing itself out: it is no longer possible to generate any interest in a straight Bitcoin clone like Litecoin. It is now necessary to add either a lot of extra features, as is the case with Mastercoin and Ethereum, or simply to act outrageous, as with Dogecoin. Furthermore, it is ridiculously easy to create altcoins now: Coingen is a service that automatically creates altcoins to any specification, and which, amusingly, only accepts payments in Bitcoin. It was apparently created especially for the purpose of helping to discredit altcoins.

Legitimate Reasons for Altcoins

I don’t object to altcoins in themselves. What I object to are the lies. There are legitimate reasons for altcoins, but none of them allow for real money to be made off of them. Altcoins should have little or no market value, but the distributed system as a whole can have value as an experiment or test of a possible upgrade to Bitcoin.

If you tell me this altcoin implements some cool new idea, then very well. But if you tell me it’s going to be the next big thing and that it’s a great investment, you’re lying. And if you believe it yourself, you’re lying to yourself.

The only reason that an altcoin should have any value at all is as an extreme speculation on the death of Bitcoin. Although it is impossible for an altcoin to beat Bitcoin on its own merits, it is theoretically possible that the Bitcoin community could destroy Bitcoin through its own foolishness. If that possibility should loom, then altcoins can do a valuable service by going up in value, thus alerting the Bitcoin community to reverse whatever it is doing.

Read more here: http://themisescircle.org/blog/2014/03/14/the-coming-demise-of-the-altcoins/
legendary
Activity: 1568
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November 06, 2014, 11:25:35 AM
#38
15) bitcointards get more and more vicious as altcoin technology gets more and more advanced
legendary
Activity: 1568
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November 06, 2014, 11:24:51 AM
#37
they both must have bum fucked you at the same time for you to turn out like such a dick. i bet your daddy is proud.. of the 10 stitches he gave you.
Thank you for demonstrating the limitations of your intellectual endurance, this speaks volumes about your chosen trashcoin.

i could say the same about you talking shit about something i did not even mention in my posts.
It's in every post you make, because you foolishly left it in your signature.

Smarter trashcoin pushers than you make some effort to hide their affiliations, much like modern christian-recruitment groups do on college campuses.

we will see who is right after nem launches..
hero member
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November 06, 2014, 11:21:06 AM
#36
they both must have bum fucked you at the same time for you to turn out like such a dick. i bet your daddy is proud.. of the 10 stitches he gave you.
Thank you for demonstrating the limitations of your intellectual endurance, this speaks volumes about your chosen trashcoin.

i could say the same about you talking shit about something i did not even mention in my posts.
It's in every post you make, because you foolishly left it in your signature.

Smarter trashcoin pushers than you make some effort to hide their affiliations, much like modern christian-recruitment groups do on college campuses.
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
November 06, 2014, 11:07:49 AM
#35
Well basically a troll ?
hero member
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November 06, 2014, 11:04:32 AM
#34
like i said.. i dont give two fucks what you say.. laugh all you like and take the piss out of me all you like.. you dont even know anything about nem and your calling it a scam..
That's not true! I know it has a stupid name and at least one total moron pushing it. And I know you think this sophomoric philosophical bullshit actually matters when it comes to the survival of a protocol:
 
"with Philosophies of Financial Freedom, Decentralization, and Equality of Opportunity."

Which by the way is no different from bitcoin or really any other crypto.

legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1002
November 06, 2014, 11:03:13 AM
#33
5 devs and 5-6 other team members have put in nearly 11 months of solid work many of them 20-30+ hours a week and have not been paid a single penny.
Satoshi Nakamoto watch out! Sounds like a room full of geniuses to me - where do  i sign up for this speculatory-sweatshop?

network effect is probably one of the most important things and thats why sreading nem equally to 3000 initial stake holders was the goal and the effects of that are already being seen
IT HAS ALREADY BEGUN! We've captured 0.00005% of the world's population in our trashcoin scam!

like i said.. i dont give two fucks what you say.. laugh all you like and take the piss out of me all you like.. you dont even know anything about nem and your calling it a scam..

TYPICAL BITCOINTARD
hero member
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November 06, 2014, 10:58:16 AM
#32
wana make a bet?
No thank you, gambling is for morons who lack strong pattern recognition ability. I went all in on bitcoin when it was in the 100s, so I don't need to gamble to survive (or work for free with the desperate hope my trashcoin get-rich-quick scheme will succeed).
hero member
Activity: 784
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November 06, 2014, 10:53:36 AM
#31
5 devs and 5-6 other team members have put in nearly 11 months of solid work many of them 20-30+ hours a week and have not been paid a single penny.
Satoshi Nakamoto watch out! Sounds like a room full of geniuses to me - where do I sign up for this speculatory-sweatshop?

network effect is probably one of the most important things and thats why sreading nem equally to 3000 initial stake holders was the goal and the effects of that are already being seen
IT HAS ALREADY BEGUN! We've captured 0.00005% of the world's population in our trashcoin scam! The world is ours!

legendary
Activity: 1568
Merit: 1002
November 06, 2014, 10:51:22 AM
#30
3m+ puts it in around 11th place.. AND ITS UNHEARD OF.. for a coin that has not even had its genesis block, has not released a white paper, is only trading stakes(1m nem per stake) on the nxt asset exchange with a minimum buy in currently of 0.1 stake/0.2+ btc
So you admit this non-coin is one big confidence scam? Great, thank you. Saves us a lot of time debating.

You know what the difference between being in "11th place" (lol, because it's a race?) and 1,111th place is in the altcoin world? Nothing. 3 million is as irrelevant as 3 dollars when you're comparing yourself to currencies with market caps measured in the billions.

the software is released you can test the beta all you like and see how PoI works.. i dont see how it is a scam either.. 5 devs and 5-6 other team members have put in nearly 11 months of solid work many of them 20-30+ hours a week and have not been paid a single penny.

again say what you like.. it only serves to prove how blinded you are by your investment in bitcoin.

you can laugh at me all you like but over time more and more people stop laughing and start taking notice.. the ones who stop laughing first always come out on top and as someone in bitcoin i thought you would know that.
Quote
As someone in bitcoin I'm not a total retard who doesn't understand the concept of network effect. And no, your shitty theoretical non-coin scam will never approach anything even close to Litecoin, let alone Bitcoin.

i never said anything about network effect.. network effect is probably one of the most important things and thats why sreading nem equally to 3000 initial stake holders was the goal and the effects of that are already being seen
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