How to make sure Bitcoin will never be banned by governments! - page 2.

The_Duke

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Quote from: MagicalTux on September 01, 2011, 10:08:37 AM

Whatever you do, ask your own lawyers anyway.

We are trying to check for things in the broadest range possible, and until the status of bitcoin is legally defined, accepting donations in bitcoins can be bad. It depends on context and various things.

Let me say it explicitly. I am not your legal counsel. I provide an opinion based on the feedback of different lawyer firms working together in the US for us, and they wouldn't advice anyone to accept bitcoins as donations.

Ok, can we remove all businesses/organisations that say "accepting bitcoin donations" from the wiki please? Because if that is true, then the wiki is displaying illegal activities.

BitPay Business Solutions

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Quote from: MagicalTux on September 01, 2011, 09:52:24 AM

Our US lawyers have confirmed that at this point it is not legal for an organization to accept donations in bitcoins.

The charity will know the regulations for accepting cash donations vs. property donations, if there are any differences. The opinion we got is that there is nothing illegal about it, but of course it is up to the discretion of the charity. They can accept or decline anything, including furniture, cars, blankets, food, etc.

The_Duke

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Quote from: Jered Kenna (TradeHill) on September 01, 2011, 10:07:50 AM

Quote from: The_Duke on September 01, 2011, 10:04:15 AM

Quote from: Jered Kenna (TradeHill) on September 01, 2011, 10:02:52 AM

Quote from: MagicalTux on September 01, 2011, 09:52:24 AM

Our US lawyers have confirmed that at this point it is not legal for an organization to accept donations in bitcoins.

They have hope this situation can be resolved, but in the meantime, in the USA, accepting bitcoin donations puts the organization at risk.

What is that based on? If it's illegal to accept it for a donation then by that logic I don't see how you could accept it as payment.

This. But lets be honest, didn't we already know that? Or have you seen any tax papers that have a section to declare your bitcoin income?

Same section you declare the goat your neighbor gave you for mowing their lawn while they were on vacation.

Jered

Thats what I mean. The non-existing section. Unless you know how to calculate the VAT on a goat.

ThomasV

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I've asked MT to clarify :

accepting donations in BTC is an issue because of all the reglementations around donations
business activity is slightly less reglemented than donations

MagicalTux

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Whatever you do, ask your own lawyers anyway.

We are trying to check for things in the broadest range possible, and until the status of bitcoin is legally defined, accepting donations in bitcoins can be bad. It depends on context and various things.

Let me say it explicitly. I am not your legal counsel. I provide an opinion based on the feedback of different lawyer firms working together in the US for us, and they wouldn't advice anyone to accept bitcoins as donations.

Jered Kenna (TradeHill)

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Quote from: The_Duke on September 01, 2011, 10:04:15 AM

Quote from: Jered Kenna (TradeHill) on September 01, 2011, 10:02:52 AM

Quote from: MagicalTux on September 01, 2011, 09:52:24 AM

Our US lawyers have confirmed that at this point it is not legal for an organization to accept donations in bitcoins.

They have hope this situation can be resolved, but in the meantime, in the USA, accepting bitcoin donations puts the organization at risk.

What is that based on? If it's illegal to accept it for a donation then by that logic I don't see how you could accept it as payment.

This. But lets be honest, didn't we already know that? Or have you seen any tax papers that have a section to declare your bitcoin income?

Same section you declare the goat your neighbor gave you for mowing their lawn while they were on vacation.

Jered

Steve

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Quote from: MagicalTux on September 01, 2011, 09:52:24 AM

Our US lawyers have confirmed that at this point it is not legal for an organization to accept donations in bitcoins.

They have hope this situation can be resolved, but in the meantime, in the USA, accepting bitcoin donations puts the organization at risk.

Citation please. My family business is tax preparation. Both my mother and sister are IRS enrolled agents and represent individuals and organizations before the IRS. I have consulted them on the matter and according to them, there is absolutely no issue with a charity accepting donations in bitcoin.

The_Duke

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Quote from: Jered Kenna (TradeHill) on September 01, 2011, 10:02:52 AM

Quote from: MagicalTux on September 01, 2011, 09:52:24 AM

Our US lawyers have confirmed that at this point it is not legal for an organization to accept donations in bitcoins.

They have hope this situation can be resolved, but in the meantime, in the USA, accepting bitcoin donations puts the organization at risk.

What is that based on? If it's illegal to accept it for a donation then by that logic I don't see how you could accept it as payment.

This. But lets be honest, didn't we already know that? Or have you seen any tax papers that have a section to declare your bitcoin income?

Hawker

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Quote from: MagicalTux on September 01, 2011, 09:52:24 AM

Our US lawyers have confirmed that at this point it is not legal for an organization to accept donations in bitcoins.

They have hope this situation can be resolved, but in the meantime, in the USA, accepting bitcoin donations puts the organization at risk.

Does that include shops ?

Jered Kenna (TradeHill)

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Quote from: MagicalTux on September 01, 2011, 09:52:24 AM

Our US lawyers have confirmed that at this point it is not legal for an organization to accept donations in bitcoins.

They have hope this situation can be resolved, but in the meantime, in the USA, accepting bitcoin donations puts the organization at risk.

What is that based on? If it's illegal to accept it for a donation then by that logic I don't see how you could accept it as payment either.

Not trying to argue just like to know what legal precedent they based it on.

Jered

MagicalTux

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Our US lawyers have confirmed that at this point it is not legal for an organization to accept donations in bitcoins.

They have hope this situation can be resolved, but in the meantime, in the USA, accepting bitcoin donations puts the organization at risk.

BitPay Business Solutions

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Quote from: ?? on ??

By the way Bit-pay folks, I would like to encourage you to post a site or at least a forum post of the charities who sign on with you to accept cryptocurrency payment, I am sure many would like to see as these get added so that they can support charities that agree with their ideals and favored choice of currency :-D

Great idea, I've already started a forum post with the announcement, and will probably make another one with a list of the accepting locations.

It can't hurt for everyone to talk to any charities they know, tell them you want to make a donation but only if they accept bitcoins. We do everything for them for free, so there is no risk or cost to the charity.

The_Duke

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Quote from: BitPay Business Solutions on September 01, 2011, 09:25:58 AM

We immediately convert these to US Dollars, which clearly establishes their value

Acknowledgement that bitcoin has no (clear) value. Love it.

BitPay Business Solutions

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We have solved the escrow problem. There is no longer a need for any third-party to accumulate donations.

https://bit-pay.com/forCharities.html

The charity can now have an account with Bit-pay and accept the bitcoins directly.

We immediately convert these to US Dollars, which clearly establishes their value, and then we electronically transfer the dollars by ACH directly to the charity's bank account.

MemoryDealers

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Quote from: tvbcof on September 01, 2011, 03:20:22 AM

Quote from: MemoryDealers on August 28, 2011, 12:39:37 PM

In tonight's Bitcoin Brainstorming session, we came up with an idea to make sure...
...

Speaking of the brainstorming session, I'd certainly be interested to know any details about it. I'd be surprised if a lot of others here were not as well. Who was present, in person or via vid, was it taped, etc. That sort of thing. It seems pretty clear that Bruce Wagner was a party and as you probably know there are a lot of questions about his character which have surfaced since the time of your post.

Thanks!

I'm aware of all the issues that have surfaced in regards to Bruce Wagner since my initial post. He was in Toyko earlier this week, and I had an informal dinner with him, and a couple other Tokyo locals who are interested in Bitcoins. For months, every day, all day has been a Bitcoin brainstorming session. I hope more great ideas will follow soon. I am sure this charity idea is still a great one, and I will work to see it through.

tvbcof

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Quote from: MemoryDealers on August 28, 2011, 12:39:37 PM

In tonight's Bitcoin Brainstorming session, we came up with an idea to make sure...
...

Speaking of the brainstorming session, I'd certainly be interested to know any details about it. I'd be surprised if a lot of others here were not as well. Who was present, in person or via vid, was it taped, etc. That sort of thing. It seems pretty clear that Bruce Wagner was a party and as you probably know there are a lot of questions about his character which have surfaced since the time of your post.

Thanks!

wolftaur

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Quote from: MemoryDealers on August 30, 2011, 02:20:01 AM

Quote from: The_Duke on August 30, 2011, 02:05:55 AM

So who still thinks it is a good idea to donate bitcoins to a fund that is not yet sure it will even find a proper place to send the money to, which is controlled by a guy who has lost 25k in bitcoins on an earlier occasion and is now linked to shady stuff involving child prostitution (I'm not saying he did anything, but it's definitely fishy enough for any charity organisation to never want anythong to do with it)?

I'm the one running all of this, and I have never been involved with any of the things you just mentioned.
So, YES, I do still think it is a GREAT idea.

MD: The opening to this thread stated that Bruce Wagner had been chosen to hold the coins in escrow.

Unfortunately since you opened this thread there have been some ... well, honestly, pretty distasteful developments with regards to Bruce's behavior and opinions. Including an article he wrote trying to argue that rape victims are the ones to blame for being raped.

You open a thread soliciting money. You state Bruce Wagner will hold the currency. That's what it says right in the opening post.

Your own words. "Bruce Wagner of onlyonetv.com has agreed to hold the funds in escrow until we reach $10,000 worth of BTC." They're still there. I just checked.

Given that your primary goal in getting charities to accept bitcoin is to garner positive publicity for Bitcoin, please do not attempt to ignore the issue. I am not accusing you of committing such behavior. I am not accusing you of condoning it. I know full well much of what I refer to here blew up around the forum after you created this thread. However the situation does now exist and it is probably quite relevant, and it does need to be addressed -- even if this is simply you posting a clear statement of what Bruce's involvement in this project is, and editing your first post if necessary to reflect that.

The_Duke

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Quote from: MemoryDealers on August 30, 2011, 02:54:16 AM

The coins are being held by MTGOX

Your opening post states:

Quote from: MemoryDealers on August 28, 2011, 12:39:37 PM

Bruce Wagner of onlyonetv.com has agreed to hold the funds in escrow until we reach $10,000 worth of BTC.

Once it is listed on the charity's website, Bruce will send out a press release to all the media contacts he has.
It should make major news headlines as well!

So you are working closely together with Bruce Wagner.

Quote

and I think you should look up the definition of "Non sequitur"
(Latin for "it does not follow"), in formal logic, is an argument in which its conclusion does not follow from its premises

I think you should stop trying to find latin words to hide behind. Basically what you are saying is that you don't care Bruce thinks about rape and you don't care how he is linked to shady business, you will work with him as long as it serves what you feel is a beneficial purpose.

MemoryDealers

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Quote from: The_Duke on August 30, 2011, 02:23:59 AM

Yeah, but you're having the coins controlled by someone who thinks it's a girls fault if she gets raped and who is now linked to illegal acts in a place he is trying to go back to with bitcoin.

But ok, nice to know you endorse all of that.

The coins are being held by MTGOX and I think you should look up the definition of "Non sequitur"
(Latin for "it does not follow"), in formal logic, is an argument in which its conclusion does not follow from its premises

The_Duke

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Quote from: MemoryDealers on August 30, 2011, 02:20:01 AM

I'm the one running all of this, and I have never been involved with any of the things you just mentioned.
So, YES, I do still think it is a GREAT idea.

Yeah, but you're having the coins controlled by someone who thinks it's a girls fault if she gets raped and who is now linked to illegal acts in a place he is trying to go back to with bitcoin.

But ok, nice to know you endorse all of that.

Topic: How to make sure Bitcoin will never be banned by governments! - page 2. (Read 7582 times)