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Topic: How to spend from cold storage? (Read 3406 times)

full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
January 02, 2014, 09:42:03 AM
#23
As an addendum, if you import any keys into Electrum you need to back up the wallet file as well as these are *not* restored from the seed. please correct me if I'm wrong on that.

I think you are correct on that. I am sending my bitcoin from my old wallet to my offline wallet instead of importing the keys. I can live with the 0.1 mBTC transaction fee. Cheesy
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
January 02, 2014, 06:39:11 AM
#22
Thanks, I'm looking into using offline Electrum in an Ubuntu virtual machine hosted on ESXi 5.5. I've now got to think about how I back it up! Is saving the electrum seed for my cold storage wallet enough? Do I need to save the wallet files?

I consider myself an advanced PC user and using bitcoin in a relatively secure way is not straight forward!

The seed is enough as a backup. Backing up the wallet file presents additional advantages such as a backup of address labels. But, yeah, when push comes to shove the seed is all you really need.

I am not sure what you mean by a virtual machine. Are you running electrum in a virtual machine that is on an online computer? That is not an offline electrum setup. Installing it in a virtual machine does not afford you any additional security. An offline setup is electrum installed on the bare metal OS on a computer that rarely goes online. Finally you can also install electrum on Windows. I wouldn't recommend it but it can be done if you don't like or are unfamiliar with Linux.

As an addendum, if you import any keys into Electrum you need to back up the wallet file as well as these are *not* restored from the seed. please correct me if I'm wrong on that.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
January 02, 2014, 04:32:13 AM
#21
Thanks, I'm looking into using offline Electrum in an Ubuntu virtual machine hosted on ESXi 5.5. I've now got to think about how I back it up! Is saving the electrum seed for my cold storage wallet enough? Do I need to save the wallet files?

I consider myself an advanced PC user and using bitcoin in a relatively secure way is not straight forward!

The seed is enough as a backup. Backing up the wallet file presents additional advantages such as a backup of address labels. But, yeah, when push comes to shove the seed is all you really need.

I am not sure what you mean by a virtual machine. Are you running electrum in a virtual machine that is on an online computer? That is not an offline electrum setup. Installing it in a virtual machine does not afford you any additional security. An offline setup is electrum installed on the bare metal OS on a computer that rarely goes online. Finally you can also install electrum on Windows. I wouldn't recommend it but it can be done if you don't like or are unfamiliar with Linux.

I don't have any "spare" bare metal machines. I have ESXi running on bare metal and hosts a lot of VMs for my work. I have created an Ubuntu machine here with whole disk encryption and home encryption. I have updated Ubuntu, installed Electrum and saved the seed words to a piece of paper and I'm also going to put them in a truecrypt volume somewhere in a text file in case I lose the piece of paper. The Ubuntu VM has the vNIC completely removed so it's as if it is offline. The ESXi host cannot communicate with the Ubuntu OS and the disk is encrypted.

For me, this is "good enough". I don't have millions of $ worth of BTC. If my BTC stash was of much higher value then I would invest in something over-the-top paranoid. But this is good enough to me.

I'm going to call my solution Bitcoin Cool Storage, or the Bitcoin fridge because it's not cold, as in frozen, but cool enough for me. Cheesy

Oh, and thanks for the help!
legendary
Activity: 3682
Merit: 1580
January 02, 2014, 04:08:45 AM
#20
Thanks, I'm looking into using offline Electrum in an Ubuntu virtual machine hosted on ESXi 5.5. I've now got to think about how I back it up! Is saving the electrum seed for my cold storage wallet enough? Do I need to save the wallet files?

I consider myself an advanced PC user and using bitcoin in a relatively secure way is not straight forward!

The seed is enough as a backup. Backing up the wallet file presents additional advantages such as a backup of address labels. But, yeah, when push comes to shove the seed is all you really need.

I am not sure what you mean by a virtual machine. Are you running electrum in a virtual machine that is on an online computer? That is not an offline electrum setup. Installing it in a virtual machine does not afford you any additional security. An offline setup is electrum installed on the bare metal OS on a computer that rarely goes online. Finally you can also install electrum on Windows. I wouldn't recommend it but it can be done if you don't like or are unfamiliar with Linux.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
January 02, 2014, 03:08:11 AM
#19
Using bitaddress.org wallet details tab. Enter the encrypted private key there and then the password to decrypt it.
Thanks that worked fine, got my coins back.

Finally if all of this sounds too much work for you then that's because it is. It is wrong to advice newbies to go the paper wallet route. If you are that worried about your coins use offline electrum. Very easy and you get unlimited addresses.

Thanks, I'm looking into using offline Electrum in an Ubuntu virtual machine hosted on ESXi 5.5. I've now got to think about how I back it up! Is saving the electrum seed for my cold storage wallet enough? Do I need to save the wallet files?

I consider myself an advanced PC user and using bitcoin in a relatively secure way is not straight forward!
hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
January 01, 2014, 09:27:53 PM
#18
Today I tried to spend the money, no success.

I installed Electrum on my Ubuntu VM and disconnected the network. In Electrum I did Wallet->Private Keys->Import. I typed in my private key from bitaddress.org and got this screen. I double checked it and it is correct. What am I doing wrong?



Ask about Electrum on the dedicate Electrum sub-forum
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
Annuit cœptis humanae libertas
January 01, 2014, 08:02:14 PM
#17
Maybe you need to decrypt the wallet first? This is how it works in Qt, don't know about Electrum though.

How do I do that?

Electrum? No idea, sorry. Sad
Bitcoin-QT? Access the Debug console from the Help menu and type:
Code:
walletpassphrase  
importprivkey
legendary
Activity: 3682
Merit: 1580
January 01, 2014, 02:29:50 PM
#16
The best way to spend from a paper wallet is to

-  Use armory's sweep key function on an online computer to sweep the funds to an existing address: https://bitcoinarmory.com/about/features/

- create a temporary blockchain.info (bci) mywallet for the express purpose of importing the private key and then send ALL the coins to an address in your main wallet.

If you do it any other way you risk getting caught by change flowing to different addresses that you had no idea you had to preserve.

Needless to say once you've spent the coins in a private key via any of the above two methods you should make it a point to never use the private key again.

Finally if all of this sounds too much work for you then that's because it is. It is wrong to advice newbies to go the paper wallet route. If you are that worried about your coins use offline electrum. Very easy and you get unlimited addresses.
legendary
Activity: 3682
Merit: 1580
January 01, 2014, 02:23:29 PM
#15
Maybe you need to decrypt the wallet first? This is how it works in Qt, don't know about Electrum though.

How do I do that?

Using bitaddress.org wallet details tab. Enter the encrypted private key there and then the password to decrypt it.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
January 01, 2014, 10:42:52 AM
#14
Maybe you need to decrypt the wallet first? This is how it works in Qt, don't know about Electrum though.

How do I do that?
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
Annuit cœptis humanae libertas
January 01, 2014, 10:18:05 AM
#13
Maybe you need to decrypt the wallet first? This is how it works in Qt, don't know about Electrum though.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
January 01, 2014, 09:50:55 AM
#12
Today I tried to spend the money, no success.

I installed Electrum on my Ubuntu VM and disconnected the network. In Electrum I did Wallet->Private Keys->Import. I typed in my private key from bitaddress.org and got this screen. I double checked it and it is correct. What am I doing wrong?

hero member
Activity: 518
Merit: 500
December 31, 2013, 09:38:21 PM
#11
You can sweep the paper wallet with the Mycelium app. It only uses the private key in ram and then deletes it.

I don't have an Android device, does it run on anything else? I have an iPhone but am thinking of ditching it soon...

Definitely ditch an iphone if you want any bitcoin functionality Wink
sr. member
Activity: 304
Merit: 380
December 31, 2013, 07:42:47 PM
#10
yenom, to use Armory or QT, you would probably have to download the entire blockchain; at least that's my understanding of Armory and QT, though I've never used either.  If you have the bandwidth, then go ahead.
Or you could import your private key into a light client of your choice, based on the balance of convenience and security you desire, what operating system you use etc.
You could also do it without using a wallet at all.
Like you, I did a little experimenting with bitaddress.org, generating and funding a brainwallet address with a nominal amount of btc.  To spend from that address, I used brainwallet.org.
I did it the quick easy way by going to the transactions page and entering my private key. This obviously involved some risk, because I was online when I entered the private key.
If you're willing to go to a little effort, you can do the whole thing without ever exposing your private key.  It's called an offline transaction.  You can do offline transactions from some wallets.   I'm pretty sure you can do an offline transaction using brainwallet.org too, but I haven't done it yet, so I won't presume to give you instructions.
If you go the brainwallet.org route, I would suggest spending the entire contents of the address.   See this thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/where-change-goes-388977
donator
Activity: 1736
Merit: 1014
Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.
December 31, 2013, 02:07:35 PM
#9
Until there is a Trezor style Armory, security will be an issue for most.
member
Activity: 146
Merit: 10
December 31, 2013, 12:19:33 PM
#8
You can sweep the paper wallet with the Mycelium app. It only uses the private key in ram and then deletes it.

How secure is this method? Is there any chance of being hacked if device is infected?
hero member
Activity: 784
Merit: 1000
Annuit cœptis humanae libertas
December 31, 2013, 11:39:10 AM
#7
createrawtransaction & signrawtransaction
in Bitcoin-Qt running on a secure offline computer?
I have no idea what that means.  Shocked

Yeah, definitely don't attempt this method if you don't know what you're doing. I kind of understand the bitcoind createrawtransaction and signrawtransaction commands, but wouldn't mess with them myself.
legendary
Activity: 3472
Merit: 4794
December 31, 2013, 11:38:24 AM
#6
Import the private key into Armory running on a secure offline computer?

How does the transaction get into the blockchain if it's offline? I want to send the bitcoin from my offline wallet to an online wallet to test that I can actually get my bitcoin out of cold storage before I put more in.

createrawtransaction & signrawtransaction
in Bitcoin-Qt running on a secure offline computer?
I have no idea what that means.  Shocked

Armory offline allows you to create a transaction, and then save that transaction to a USB drive.

You can then connect the USB drive to a computer running Armory online and use it to broadcast the transaction without every having your private key on an online computer.  It is essentially automating the process of using createrawtransaction & signrawtransaction for you.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
December 31, 2013, 11:38:17 AM
#5
You can sweep the paper wallet with the Mycelium app. It only uses the private key in ram and then deletes it.

I don't have an Android device, does it run on anything else? I have an iPhone but am thinking of ditching it soon...
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
December 31, 2013, 11:34:46 AM
#4
Import the private key into Armory running on a secure offline computer?

How does the transaction get into the blockchain if it's offline? I want to send the bitcoin from my offline wallet to an online wallet to test that I can actually get my bitcoin out of cold storage before I put more in.

createrawtransaction & signrawtransaction
in Bitcoin-Qt running on a secure offline computer?
I have no idea what that means.  Shocked
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