How to "wash" your coins | Bitcointalksearch.org

Parazyd

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Space Lord

Quote from: ranochigo on November 10, 2015, 05:13:28 AM

Quote from: Goldman Sucks on November 10, 2015, 03:44:27 AM

Quote from: AncilVTwo on November 08, 2015, 08:30:20 AM

if using a mixing site, isnt it possible that someone elses "tainted coins" could be sent to you, personally i think exchange might be better.

There is nothing wrong with the tainted coins if you can spend it. The coin from exchanges are also tainted.

Yes true. There are huge amount of coins which are tainted due to robberies or hacks which happened before.

However, companies may reject those kind of coins. For example, Bitpay has allegedly[1] warned the merchant about the blacklisted coins and it makes no sense whatsoever. Almost all the coins are tainted in someway and Bitpay would be marking majority of the legit transactions as a fraud.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting/

I don't get it either... And the more time passes, more and more coins will be tainted somehow.
The exact same thing happens with fiat as well.

ranochigo

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Quote from: Goldman Sucks on November 10, 2015, 03:44:27 AM

Quote from: AncilVTwo on November 08, 2015, 08:30:20 AM

if using a mixing site, isnt it possible that someone elses "tainted coins" could be sent to you, personally i think exchange might be better.

There is nothing wrong with the tainted coins if you can spend it. The coin from exchanges are also tainted.

Yes true. There are huge amount of coins which are tainted due to robberies or hacks which happened before.

However, companies may reject those kind of coins. For example, Bitpay has allegedly[1] warned the merchant about the blacklisted coins and it makes no sense whatsoever. Almost all the coins are tainted in someway and Bitpay would be marking majority of the legit transactions as a fraud.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3mea6b/bitpay_is_blacklisting_certain_bitcoins_rejecting/

Slark

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Unless you are serious crime lord and your coins are all tainted there is little to worry. Even then you can use mixers, p2p trading through middlemen, and other methods to clean your coins.
In the end I suspect probably every bitcoin in existence will be tainted, assuming it have been used before.

Amph

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Quote from: Goldman Sucks on November 10, 2015, 03:44:27 AM

Quote from: AncilVTwo on November 08, 2015, 08:30:20 AM

if using a mixing site, isnt it possible that someone elses "tainted coins" could be sent to you, personally i think exchange might be better.

There is nothing wrong with the tainted coins if you can spend it. The coin from exchanges are also tainted.

bitcoin is anonymous so if you use tainted coin, they cannot connect those coin to you, unless you buy something, but if you use them in open bazar or decentralized platform akin to it, in the future, nothing can be done

Goldman Sucks

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Quote from: AncilVTwo on November 08, 2015, 08:30:20 AM

if using a mixing site, isnt it possible that someone elses "tainted coins" could be sent to you, personally i think exchange might be better.

There is nothing wrong with the tainted coins if you can spend it. The coin from exchanges are also tainted.

AncilVTwo

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Quote from: ranochigo on November 08, 2015, 08:28:25 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on November 08, 2015, 08:16:24 AM

Quote from: ranochigo on November 08, 2015, 08:11:48 AM

House edge affects the bet payout. If the house edge is 1%, the payout would be 1.98x, which in the long run would make the house win by an average 1% of the wagered amount. If you don't bet, the only fees charged is during withdrawal if it does charge a fee during deposit, you should stop using that casino. That being said, use gambling sites aren't always legal in many jurisdiction. They do keep logs too.

I know a few mixing sites. Their fees are like insane. I have seen one of the sites charging as much as 20% as fee. Compared to that the house advantage given for the gambling sites are quite low. Even if you have to wash it three times, on average you are going to lose only around 3% of your total coins. That said, the transaction logs are an area of concern.

You definitely didn't get my point. The house edge does not affect the balance till you decide to bet it. There will be no fees except the withdrawal fees which is minuscule. That being said, mixers does offer more assurance than gambling site. Bitmixer is one of the lower costs ones.

if using a mixing site, isnt it possible that someone elses "tainted coins" could be sent to you, personally i think exchange might be better.

ranochigo

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on November 08, 2015, 08:16:24 AM

Quote from: ranochigo on November 08, 2015, 08:11:48 AM

House edge affects the bet payout. If the house edge is 1%, the payout would be 1.98x, which in the long run would make the house win by an average 1% of the wagered amount. If you don't bet, the only fees charged is during withdrawal if it does charge a fee during deposit, you should stop using that casino. That being said, use gambling sites aren't always legal in many jurisdiction. They do keep logs too.

I know a few mixing sites. Their fees are like insane. I have seen one of the sites charging as much as 20% as fee. Compared to that the house advantage given for the gambling sites are quite low. Even if you have to wash it three times, on average you are going to lose only around 3% of your total coins. That said, the transaction logs are an area of concern.

You definitely didn't get my point. The house edge does not affect the balance till you decide to bet it. There will be no fees except the withdrawal fees which is minuscule. That being said, mixers does offer more assurance than gambling site. Bitmixer is one of the lower costs ones.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: ranochigo on November 08, 2015, 08:11:48 AM

House edge affects the bet payout. If the house edge is 1%, the payout would be 1.98x, which in the long run would make the house win by an average 1% of the wagered amount. If you don't bet, the only fees charged is during withdrawal if it does charge a fee during deposit, you should stop using that casino. That being said, use gambling sites aren't always legal in many jurisdiction. They do keep logs too.

I know a few mixing sites. Their fees are like insane. I have seen one of the sites charging as much as 20% as fee. Compared to that the house advantage given for the gambling sites are quite low. Even if you have to wash it three times, on average you are going to lose only around 3% of your total coins. That said, the transaction logs are an area of concern.

ranochigo

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Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: bryant.coleman on November 08, 2015, 07:32:41 AM

Quote from: febriyana on November 08, 2015, 03:38:17 AM

Use exchanger or gambling site is fast way for me Grin

Yes. This is the safest option. Use either Satoshi-dice or Prime-dice, and stay away from the less reputed gambling sites. Most of the mixing sites charge as much as 5% or 10% as fee, while the same with gambling sites can be as low as 0.5% or 1% (on average, the "house edge"). But you should repeat this process two or three times, to make sure that the coins are "properly washed".

House edge affects the bet payout. If the house edge is 1%, the payout would be 1.98x, which in the long run would make the house win by an average 1% of the wagered amount. If you don't bet, the only fees charged is during withdrawal if it does charge a fee during deposit, you should stop using that casino. That being said, use gambling sites aren't always legal in many jurisdiction. They do keep logs too.

Jeremycoin

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𝓗𝓞𝓓𝓛

Quote from: ranochigo on November 08, 2015, 07:05:21 AM

Quote from: Jeremycoin on November 08, 2015, 07:03:15 AM

Quote from: ranochigo on November 07, 2015, 11:18:37 PM

Quote from: Goldman Sucks on November 07, 2015, 01:44:54 PM

Quote from: Jeremycoin on November 07, 2015, 09:39:53 AM

Cash it first and then buy the Bitcoin again.
Also don't use just 1 address, share it to many addresses.

How do you cash it? Do you do that in exchanges? Then the exchange will have your information. The exchange will also know which address you send the bitcoin t.

Yes. The exchange would be able to trace it. However, you can use an alt coin exchange and exchange it into an alt coin, cash it out on another exchange. While using different VPN IPs. It is slightly risky due to the volatility, but it is still better than mixers.

Don't use an exchange, just sell it to someone that you'll meet in real life.(Do it too for the buying time, except for this time don't use the same person)

Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of mixing your Bitcoin and hide your identity? Your identity will be exposed twice, when you sell and buy. Exchanges does not require identity verification and it is hard to trace anonymous alt coins.

But, there will be just 2 people who know your identity.
Anyway you can ask your friend to buy and sell the Bitcoin tho

stzmc

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on November 08, 2015, 07:32:41 AM

Quote from: febriyana on November 08, 2015, 03:38:17 AM

Use exchanger or gambling site is fast way for me Grin

Yes. This is the safest option. Use either Satoshi-dice or Prime-dice, and stay away from the less reputed gambling sites. Most of the mixing sites charge as much as 5% or 10% as fee, while the same with gambling sites can be as low as 0.5% or 1% (on average, the "house edge"). But you should repeat this process two or three times, to make sure that the coins are "properly washed".

Hello,
Do you consider this is safe to do? Can this be traceable by seeing the tx's to the websites/exchangers wallets?

Thanks
Regards

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: febriyana on November 08, 2015, 03:38:17 AM

Use exchanger or gambling site is fast way for me Grin

Yes. This is the safest option. Use either Satoshi-dice or Prime-dice, and stay away from the less reputed gambling sites. Most of the mixing sites charge as much as 5% or 10% as fee, while the same with gambling sites can be as low as 0.5% or 1% (on average, the "house edge"). But you should repeat this process two or three times, to make sure that the coins are "properly washed".

ranochigo

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Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: Jeremycoin on November 08, 2015, 07:03:15 AM

Quote from: ranochigo on November 07, 2015, 11:18:37 PM

Quote from: Goldman Sucks on November 07, 2015, 01:44:54 PM

Quote from: Jeremycoin on November 07, 2015, 09:39:53 AM

Cash it first and then buy the Bitcoin again.
Also don't use just 1 address, share it to many addresses.

How do you cash it? Do you do that in exchanges? Then the exchange will have your information. The exchange will also know which address you send the bitcoin t.

Yes. The exchange would be able to trace it. However, you can use an alt coin exchange and exchange it into an alt coin, cash it out on another exchange. While using different VPN IPs. It is slightly risky due to the volatility, but it is still better than mixers.

Don't use an exchange, just sell it to someone that you'll meet in real life.(Do it too for the buying time, except for this time don't use the same person)

Doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of mixing your Bitcoin and hide your identity? Your identity will be exposed twice, when you sell and buy. Exchanges does not require identity verification and it is hard to trace anonymous alt coins.

Jeremycoin

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Activity: 1022

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𝓗𝓞𝓓𝓛

Quote from: ranochigo on November 07, 2015, 11:18:37 PM

Quote from: Goldman Sucks on November 07, 2015, 01:44:54 PM

Quote from: Jeremycoin on November 07, 2015, 09:39:53 AM

Cash it first and then buy the Bitcoin again.
Also don't use just 1 address, share it to many addresses.

How do you cash it? Do you do that in exchanges? Then the exchange will have your information. The exchange will also know which address you send the bitcoin t.

Yes. The exchange would be able to trace it. However, you can use an alt coin exchange and exchange it into an alt coin, cash it out on another exchange. While using different VPN IPs. It is slightly risky due to the volatility, but it is still better than mixers.

Don't use an exchange, just sell it to someone that you'll meet in real life.(Do it too for the buying time, except for this time don't use the same person)

S4VV4S

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Quote from: FruitsBasket on November 08, 2015, 02:53:47 AM

Quote from: ranochigo on November 08, 2015, 12:49:22 AM

Quote from: Battareus on November 07, 2015, 11:37:36 PM

What happens if I deposited on cryptsy then withdraw this can be tracked? I saw what as soon as I deposited, my bitcoins left my address (on exchange) and when I withdraw they come from others addresses.

Yes basically. Exchanges moves the coins to a central address for storage or use it directly from the address to fund the withdrawals of other users. They can still be traced by the exchange as they can and most probably have kept a log of your deposit and withdrawal transactions.

But they cannot share information right?
That is called the privacy law, or this doesn't count?

By law, if the law requires them to hand out information (and the law applies in their territory that is) then they will.
And God knows where/how you information is used elsewhere by the exchange.

febriyana

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Febriyana Muhammad

Use exchanger or gambling site is fast way for me Grin

ranochigo

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Quote from: FruitsBasket on November 08, 2015, 02:53:47 AM

Quote from: ranochigo on November 08, 2015, 12:49:22 AM

Quote from: Battareus on November 07, 2015, 11:37:36 PM

What happens if I deposited on cryptsy then withdraw this can be tracked? I saw what as soon as I deposited, my bitcoins left my address (on exchange) and when I withdraw they come from others addresses.

Yes basically. Exchanges moves the coins to a central address for storage or use it directly from the address to fund the withdrawals of other users. They can still be traced by the exchange as they can and most probably have kept a log of your deposit and withdrawal transactions.

But they cannot share information right?
That is called the privacy law, or this doesn't count?

I'm not sure about the law but many have to comply with the government's KYC/AML policy. It isn't illegal unless someone finds it out. If the person is involved in some illegal stuff, the police does have the rights to ask for such information. On the contrary, some mixers does delete logs and they aren't legally obligated to hand out such info.

eternalgloom

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There are also a couple of tumblers available on Tor:

bitblendervrfkzr.onion --- Bitblender

foggeddriztrcar2.onion --- Bitcoinfog

grams7enufi7jmdl.onion/helix --- Helix

Note that you need the Tor browser bundle to open these links or use a Linux distribution which has Tor preinstalled such as Tails.
I hope it's allowed to post these onion links here, I'm not trying to promote any illegal activity, just to be clear.

There are many legitimate use case scenario's for tumblers and Tor adds an extra layer of anonymity, if set up right.

FruitsBasket

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Quote from: ranochigo on November 08, 2015, 12:49:22 AM

Quote from: Battareus on November 07, 2015, 11:37:36 PM

What happens if I deposited on cryptsy then withdraw this can be tracked? I saw what as soon as I deposited, my bitcoins left my address (on exchange) and when I withdraw they come from others addresses.

Yes basically. Exchanges moves the coins to a central address for storage or use it directly from the address to fund the withdrawals of other users. They can still be traced by the exchange as they can and most probably have kept a log of your deposit and withdrawal transactions.

But they cannot share information right?
That is called the privacy law, or this doesn't count?

ranochigo

legendary

Activity: 3038

Merit: 4418

Crypto Swap Exchange

Quote from: Battareus on November 07, 2015, 11:37:36 PM

What happens if I deposited on cryptsy then withdraw this can be tracked? I saw what as soon as I deposited, my bitcoins left my address (on exchange) and when I withdraw they come from others addresses.

Yes basically. Exchanges moves the coins to a central address for storage or use it directly from the address to fund the withdrawals of other users. They can still be traced by the exchange as they can and most probably have kept a log of your deposit and withdrawal transactions.

Topic: How to "wash" your coins (Read 3800 times)