How Traders 'pump And Dump' Cryptocurrencies - page 2.

thetractor666

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Quote from: aitorp6 on December 19, 2017, 08:17:54 AM

Hi there.

Here you have a good article. It's a recommended lecture if you want to understand those pump-dump waves:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/how-traders-pump-and-dump-cryptocurrencies-2017-11/#pump-and-dump-scams-are-coordinated-through-groups-and-channels-on-the-app-and-advertised-in-advance-2

Any opinions about this?

Interesting, so basically they bump and dump coins in group buys to earn , is likely a hack on the trade system.

BlockEye

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Quote from: BartS on December 28, 2017, 07:34:27 PM

Quote from: chris200x9 on December 19, 2017, 10:01:32 PM

Quote from: jhdscript on December 19, 2017, 03:51:53 PM

I don't know how they pump big values like ETH or LTC but to pump altcoins is possible with few bitcoins I think

These pump and dump groups will not choose those high demand coins because once prices go high there will be a people who bought earlier than these guys may start dumping coins then it will reduce profit to those group admins so they cleverly accumulate at low volume coins in advance and after pump announcement they start selling at higher price and buyers will lose money.

Exactly it is impossible for those small groups to manipulate the price of bitcoin or other big alts, for that you need to be a whale, most of the time pump and dump groups concentrate their efforts in coins with a few millions in market cap or even a lower market cap, then they begin to slowly buy coins and when they are ready they tell other members of their group and then they get their profits.

However if there are whales on such groups who makes FUD over the dumps or pumps then maybe can affect the market but not in huge impact, some were really due to news occuring on exchanges or banning in some countries. No one can manipulate the alts since there are many factors need to consider.

BartS

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Quote from: chris200x9 on December 19, 2017, 10:01:32 PM

Quote from: jhdscript on December 19, 2017, 03:51:53 PM

I don't know how they pump big values like ETH or LTC but to pump altcoins is possible with few bitcoins I think

These pump and dump groups will not choose those high demand coins because once prices go high there will be a people who bought earlier than these guys may start dumping coins then it will reduce profit to those group admins so they cleverly accumulate at low volume coins in advance and after pump announcement they start selling at higher price and buyers will lose money.

Exactly it is impossible for those small groups to manipulate the price of bitcoin or other big alts, for that you need to be a whale, most of the time pump and dump groups concentrate their efforts in coins with a few millions in market cap or even a lower market cap, then they begin to slowly buy coins and when they are ready they tell other members of their group and then they get their profits.

gayan777

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trading is not pump and dump ,real traders not to invest pump wall,i think pumping is not good crypto world,

mklost

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Those schemes are the nature of these markets nothing new.

PEG-TOKEN

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Social media and fake news in the crypto space can be a powerful tool. We have seen recently lots of fake story's false information and more tricks to attempt to manipulate the price.
One of the worst things that is going on is not pump and dump mentality its the constant spamming of transactions on the blockchain by a few groups who are trying there dam hardest to inflate the fee for miners and to process only spam transactions into blocks while the general public suffer and think why bother.

The smart ones out there see that this is a ploy by some to force users to sell there coins and jump onto another "chain".

iqlimasyadiqa

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Quote from: jerry0 on December 23, 2017, 08:08:19 PM

Would someone tweeting about a coin and they have lot of people read his tweets to drive the price up and then you buy it during the pump... then sell it once it 2x or 3x constitute a pump or not?

Increasing the popularity of a coin is a natural thing, so it can increase a person's level of confidence in the coin because with more people talking about the coin it will make things more convincing. To pump and dump must use a lot of money, not everyone can do that. A trader who has the ability will usually be able to easily gain profit because he controls almost all market activity, but it also actually hurt a lot of people because that benefits only a few people while most will lose when the coin price is dumped.

jerry0

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Would someone tweeting about a coin and they have lot of people read his tweets to drive the price up and then you buy it during the pump... then sell it once it 2x or 3x constitute a pump or not?

Tactical Genius

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Well,the pump and dumps i saw couldn't really affect the price of the currency significantly and more over the coins that were pumped are either very new on the market or not a solid and established currency like the mainstream ones we know.Funnily,it is easy to become a bag holder from such schemes especially for noobs.

BartS

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Quote from: Low Sigma on December 19, 2017, 08:05:46 PM

Quote from: buwaytress on December 19, 2017, 04:13:30 PM

Looks like the "traditional" world of finance and business writing are trying to up their game, using crypto speak. I suppose it's a good article, probably new to a lot of their readers. But I'd be very, very surprised if the same strategies they talk about aren't used in conventional trading instruments. After all, the same FUD and FOMO derived from stock brokers making panicked calls to each other, buying and selling (pumping and dumping).

Anyway, interesting read, but the groups they talk about are barely scratching the surface, and seem to organise pumps/dumps on small coins (I struggle to avoid "shitcoin"). They also need to know a lot of P/D groups actually fail, since they're mostly amateurs.

This forum actually has quite a good history of old threads with very well written p/d stories. And here's a less crisp article but on a deeper level from Hacker Noon for you conspiracy theorists!

https://hackernoon.com/meet-spoofy-how-a-single-entity-dominates-the-price-of-bitcoin-39c711d28eb4

Pump&dump doesn't really happen anymore in traditional markets. The regulators use a lot of automated tools to raise a red flag and alert a person to have a second look.

On the other hand the problems on the "traditional" markets are different:
- front running a client order in fx market(it was something ordinary until a few were put into prison).
- high frequency traders sending lots of new/canceled orders to affect the ask-bid microstructure.
- manipulating the LIBOR used as a benchmark/free risk rate for modelling/pricing of financial instruments in the $trillion derivatives market.
- opacity of dark pools.

And how you can be so sure that no longer happens, it may be illegal now to use pump and dump tactics on traditional markets but that does not mean it is not happening, if we take into account all the money that is at stake and human greed then it is very obvious to me that is still happening, just look at the ponzi scheme by Madoff he scammed a lot of money with a very old tactic.

Tynovten_

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I ever read an article, it said in the trading, some people do the price manipulation (pump or dump), maybe 80 or 85%. They always do that to get the trader.

farhaan

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Pump and dump is usually done in altcoin markets and even there are services which provide pumping of a coin.Especially,it is used to pump newly released coins in the market to get a good start.They mostly do such pumps and dumps in newly released coins.

jerry0

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Is a good example when a coin goes up a lot very quickly?

chris200x9

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Quote from: jhdscript on December 19, 2017, 03:51:53 PM

I don't know how they pump big values like ETH or LTC but to pump altcoins is possible with few bitcoins I think

These pump and dump groups will not choose those high demand coins because once prices go high there will be a people who bought earlier than these guys may start dumping coins then it will reduce profit to those group admins so they cleverly accumulate at low volume coins in advance and after pump announcement they start selling at higher price and buyers will lose money.

Raist

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Quote from: buwaytress on December 19, 2017, 04:13:30 PM

Looks like the "traditional" world of finance and business writing are trying to up their game, using crypto speak. I suppose it's a good article, probably new to a lot of their readers. But I'd be very, very surprised if the same strategies they talk about aren't used in conventional trading instruments. After all, the same FUD and FOMO derived from stock brokers making panicked calls to each other, buying and selling (pumping and dumping).

Anyway, interesting read, but the groups they talk about are barely scratching the surface, and seem to organise pumps/dumps on small coins (I struggle to avoid "shitcoin"). They also need to know a lot of P/D groups actually fail, since they're mostly amateurs.

This forum actually has quite a good history of old threads with very well written p/d stories. And here's a less crisp article but on a deeper level from Hacker Noon for you conspiracy theorists!

https://hackernoon.com/meet-spoofy-how-a-single-entity-dominates-the-price-of-bitcoin-39c711d28eb4

Thank you for the link - very interesting. Ghostbusters have caught Spoofy Grin

Despite I do not believe that Bitfinex only is a lair of Spoofy gosts some graphs are representing very common activity for many big coins.
Telegram groups mentioned are giving right signals sometimes. But that's become really risky regarding small coins. Chances that community can be manipulated in this case are way too big. Also the amount of small coins cannot withstand such "community rush" without extreme jumps.

sugihe

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Quote from: Ratko1922 on December 19, 2017, 10:16:07 AM

A pretty decent article, but needs more details. Whales also impact the price with the artificial walls and there are many pieces of information missing. It's not rocket science, but still.

Pump and dump organize by a group that work specially for pump and dump.
There are other option also, whales who have big capital play the market.

Low Sigma

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Algorithmic Trader

Quote from: buwaytress on December 19, 2017, 04:13:30 PM

Looks like the "traditional" world of finance and business writing are trying to up their game, using crypto speak. I suppose it's a good article, probably new to a lot of their readers. But I'd be very, very surprised if the same strategies they talk about aren't used in conventional trading instruments. After all, the same FUD and FOMO derived from stock brokers making panicked calls to each other, buying and selling (pumping and dumping).

Anyway, interesting read, but the groups they talk about are barely scratching the surface, and seem to organise pumps/dumps on small coins (I struggle to avoid "shitcoin"). They also need to know a lot of P/D groups actually fail, since they're mostly amateurs.

This forum actually has quite a good history of old threads with very well written p/d stories. And here's a less crisp article but on a deeper level from Hacker Noon for you conspiracy theorists!

https://hackernoon.com/meet-spoofy-how-a-single-entity-dominates-the-price-of-bitcoin-39c711d28eb4

Pump&dump doesn't really happen anymore in traditional markets. The regulators use a lot of automated tools to raise a red flag and alert a person to have a second look.

On the other hand the problems on the "traditional" markets are different:
- front running a client order in fx market(it was something ordinary until a few were put into prison).
- high frequency traders sending lots of new/canceled orders to affect the ask-bid microstructure.
- manipulating the LIBOR used as a benchmark/free risk rate for modelling/pricing of financial instruments in the $trillion derivatives market.
- opacity of dark pools.

EcoChavCrypto

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Quote from: Ratko1922 on December 19, 2017, 10:16:07 AM

A pretty decent article, but needs more details. Whales also impact the price with the artificial walls and there are many pieces of information missing. It's not rocket science, but still.

And he forgot to say that most part of the pump & dumps scenarios are coming from telegram groups who have been "looking" to do those pumps and dumps before.

I joined a telegram signals group a few days ago, and all that they were giving on the Free chat were just signals, a few minutes after the price was suddenly pumped.

Guess what, you need to pay a membership of more than 0.02 btc a month to be able to join the premium chat and have access to receive the signals at the same moment as the other premium users.

It means that you will buy first, and the "free" members will pump the price and buy the alts that you bought before

That is pure science! Of course!.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: aitorp6 on December 19, 2017, 08:17:54 AM

Here you have a good article. It's a recommended lecture if you want to understand those pump-dump waves:

http://uk.businessinsider.com/how-traders-pump-and-dump-cryptocurrencies-2017-11/#pump-and-dump-scams-are-coordinated-through-groups-and-channels-on-the-app-and-advertised-in-advance-2

Any opinions about this?

this is nothing new. you could find these same pump-and-dump tactics employed on penny stocks in the yahoo finance forums! this has been happening since the early days of litecoin, when fontas was using the btc-e trollbox to pump and dump the first generation altcoins. anyone remember fontas?! Tongue

i see advertisements and shills for these pump groups all the time today (indeed, they are mostly telegram groups and things like that). but the fact is they are too small to manipulate the market for any real length of time.

what the group operators are really doing is shilling their current holdings to their followers. then they dump everything on them. that's it.

BartS

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Quote from: FrueGreads on December 19, 2017, 10:43:32 AM

I wont say that those pump and dump groups don't exist, and since crypto trading is so recent, and anyone can take part, we probably still see people getting scammed that way, but I think the effect of those groups are getting smaller and will soon disappear as the market liquidity increases. Big money investors don't need those groups, and they can move markets by themselves right now, and I think that a lot of the pump and dump we are seeing, is done by big whales. They move the market, create a hype around it, and then manage to slowly cash out as other join, because they thing a pumping is happening. All these things will decrease as soon as we have decent market makers in the exchanges, and it would be impossible for big whales, and pump groups to move the market.

Those groups do not target big coins like bitcoin, you need to be a whale to impact the price of bitcoin at all, what they are doing is to look for coins with a very low market cap, those that know what it is going to happen begin to buy coins without arising suspicion then they tell their followers the name of the coin they want pumped and then they cashout and they get the benefits while everyone else gets losses.

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