Topic: How was this not mentioned.. (Read 3499 times)

When bitcoin first rolled out it was 4 decimal places. Back in 2011 they decided that 8 were needed and it came out as part of a core update.

Just to set the record straight, this never happened. The first commit, tagged 4405b and dated 2009-08-29 has this on line 18 of main.h:

Code:

static const int64 COIN = 100000000;

COIN is the divisor for converting satoshis to BTC.

Bitcoin has always had 8 decimal places.

OK, thanks for that. I was obviously wrong - didn't intend to mislead. Upon looking at historical posts I saw mention of some sites (Gox at the time) only showing balances of 4 decimal places, which is where I assume I went wrong.

Again, apologies.

notme

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Quote from: hacknoid on July 17, 2014, 02:25:43 PM

When bitcoin first rolled out it was 4 decimal places. Back in 2011 they decided that 8 were needed and it came out as part of a core update.

Just to set the record straight, this never happened. The first commit, tagged 4405b and dated 2009-08-29 has this on line 18 of main.h:

Code:

static const int64 COIN = 100000000;

COIN is the divisor for converting satoshis to BTC.

Bitcoin has always had 8 decimal places.

notme

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Merit: 1002

Quote from: notme on July 17, 2014, 07:07:43 AM

Quote from: notme on July 17, 2014, 07:07:43 AM

Bitcoin is only divisible to 8 decimal places without a hard fork. Hard forks are very difficult to orchestrate, so although extending the number of decimal places is technical feasible, it will be difficult in practice and will never happen before it is agreed to be an absolute necessity.

When bitcoin first rolled out it was 4 decimal places. Back in 2011 they decided that 8 were needed and it came out as part of a core update. Similar thing with the view on "dust" last year. Those sorts of updates are pretty minimal and don't require a big change. Changing the hashing algorithm or moving to PoS or something would be a big deal. So if more than 8 decimal places are required, I think it will happen without causing any issues.

If required, yes. But if you try to do it before there is consensus that it is necessary you will end up with two blockchains each claiming to be Bitcoin. Such is the case any time you try to change the rules in a way that is incompatible with older versions of the software. The "dust" changes were merely parameter adjustments. Dust is still valid and is included by some miners, but most choose to filter it. So not really that similar. Also, you're full of shit because I was 0.5% of the hashpower in 2010 and at that time we had 8 decimal places. It might have been 4 in a very early version, but certainly not in 2011.

True, there's always a chance that not all people will choose to play by the new rules causing a fork - I'm just suggesting that adding a few more decimal places should the need arise is not something that I can see many (any?) people rebelling against, so I am going to guess it would not be hard to roll out.

I might very well be wrong about the date of the change - I first learned of Bitcoin back in 2011, and I remember the change to 8 places, so I assumed it was then, however if this is wrong, then my bad.

Well, just off the top of my head, how about the fact that increasing the number of decimal places means that you have to change the value field on every txout to something larger than the current 8 bytes. This increases transaction size, which means that without also increasing block size, you are decreasing transaction throughput of the network. Why would a miner want to increase storage costs, decrease throughput, all while taking in less fees (because of less transactions)? I assume if we are at the point where 8 decimals isn't enough, we are also pushing the limits on throughput, but blocksize is an entirely different can of worms.

billyscuz

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what's the market cap of bitcoin? and how about oil? let's table this discussion until after the next couple bubbles... Cheesy

hacknoid

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Proud Canuck

Bitcoin is only divisible to 8 decimal places without a hard fork. Hard forks are very difficult to orchestrate, so although extending the number of decimal places is technical feasible, it will be difficult in practice and will never happen before it is agreed to be an absolute necessity.

When bitcoin first rolled out it was 4 decimal places. Back in 2011 they decided that 8 were needed and it came out as part of a core update. Similar thing with the view on "dust" last year. Those sorts of updates are pretty minimal and don't require a big change. Changing the hashing algorithm or moving to PoS or something would be a big deal. So if more than 8 decimal places are required, I think it will happen without causing any issues.

If required, yes. But if you try to do it before there is consensus that it is necessary you will end up with two blockchains each claiming to be Bitcoin. Such is the case any time you try to change the rules in a way that is incompatible with older versions of the software. The "dust" changes were merely parameter adjustments. Dust is still valid and is included by some miners, but most choose to filter it. So not really that similar. Also, you're full of shit because I was 0.5% of the hashpower in 2010 and at that time we had 8 decimal places. It might have been 4 in a very early version, but certainly not in 2011.

True, there's always a chance that not all people will choose to play by the new rules causing a fork - I'm just suggesting that adding a few more decimal places should the need arise is not something that I can see many (any?) people rebelling against, so I am going to guess it would not be hard to roll out.

I might very well be wrong about the date of the change - I first learned of Bitcoin back in 2011, and I remember the change to 8 places, so I assumed it was then, however if this is wrong, then my bad.

notme

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Quote from: maker88 on July 16, 2014, 06:04:13 PM

Won't happen.

There isn't enough bitcoin around to let country buy oil at country level.

sure there is. after all they're infinitely dividable and can be worth anything. including a million/billion dollars a coin. so yeah theres defiantly enough bitcoins around for countries to use it for oil. will they do it? who knows

Bitcoin is only divisible to 8 decimal places without a hard fork. Hard forks are very difficult to orchestrate, so although extending the number of decimal places is technical feasible, it will be difficult in practice and will never happen before it is agreed to be an absolute necessity.

When bitcoin first rolled out it was 4 decimal places. Back in 2011 they decided that 8 were needed and it came out as part of a core update. Similar thing with the view on "dust" last year. Those sorts of updates are pretty minimal and don't require a big change. Changing the hashing algorithm or moving to PoS or something would be a big deal. So if more than 8 decimal places are required, I think it will happen without causing any issues.

If required, yes. But if you try to do it before there is consensus that it is necessary you will end up with two blockchains each claiming to be Bitcoin. Such is the case any time you try to change the rules in a way that is incompatible with older versions of the software. The "dust" changes were merely parameter adjustments. Dust is still valid and is included by some miners, but most choose to filter it. So not really that similar. Also, you're full of shit because I was 0.5% of the hashpower in 2010 and at that time we had 8 decimal places. It might have been 4 in a very early version, but certainly not in 2011.

hacknoid

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Proud Canuck

Quote from: maker88 on July 16, 2014, 06:04:13 PM

Quote from: Benjig on July 16, 2014, 10:33:50 PM

Won't happen.

There isn't enough bitcoin around to let country buy oil at country level.

sure there is. after all they're infinitely dividable and can be worth anything. including a million/billion dollars a coin. so yeah theres defiantly enough bitcoins around for countries to use it for oil. will they do it? who knows

Bitcoin is only divisible to 8 decimal places without a hard fork. Hard forks are very difficult to orchestrate, so although extending the number of decimal places is technical feasible, it will be difficult in practice and will never happen before it is agreed to be an absolute necessity.

When bitcoin first rolled out it was 4 decimal places. Back in 2011 they decided that 8 were needed and it came out as part of a core update. Similar thing with the view on "dust" last year. Those sorts of updates are pretty minimal and don't require a big change. Changing the hashing algorithm or moving to PoS or something would be a big deal. So if more than 8 decimal places are required, I think it will happen without causing any issues.

notme

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With 8 decimals you get trillions of "units" why would you need more ? 8 decimals is pretty enough i think

I don't know that we ever will, I was merely contesting the claim it was infinitely divisible. However, in the case of bitcoin being used as a global reserve currency (as was hinted at by denominating oil trade in BTC), 21,000,000 BTC * 100,000,000 / 7,000,000,000 = 300,000 satoshi's per person. Using our current unit of account, which has 2 decimals that's equivalent to $3000 per person. And that is neglecting all nonperson entities (businesses, governments, nonprofits), and the fact that we'll probably be at 8 billion people before we ever reach that point of adoption (if ever.... BIG if).

Benjig

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With 8 decimals you get trillions of "units" why would you need more ? 8 decimals is pretty enough i think

Brewins

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Think its more likely they make their own crypto to this kind of trades than make another one.

notme

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Quote from: maker88 on July 16, 2014, 06:04:13 PM

Quote from: smoothie on July 16, 2014, 07:06:56 PM

Won't happen.

There isn't enough bitcoin around to let country buy oil at country level.

sure there is. after all they're infinitely dividable and can be worth anything. including a million/billion dollars a coin. so yeah theres defiantly enough bitcoins around for countries to use it for oil. will they do it? who knows

Bitcoin is only divisible to 8 decimal places without a hard fork. Hard forks are very difficult to orchestrate, so although extending the number of decimal places is technical feasible, it will be difficult in practice and will never happen before it is agreed to be an absolute necessity.

okthen

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If this happens anyone holding a Bitcoin will be a millionaire if not close to being one.

At least this news should help awaken the rich oil sheikhs!
Oil has its days counted, they must buy btc while they can!

smoothie

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LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

If this happens anyone holding a Bitcoin will be a millionaire if not close to being one.

maker88

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