How Whales Store Their BTC | Bitcointalksearch.org

qwertyup23

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Quote from: Jason Brendon on August 03, 2022, 12:11:07 AM

Big players like Michael Saylor, the president of EI, or even some exchanges, i have been wondering how these guys store their BTC, their solutions, and their hardware storage.

Do any insiders know something? BTC

Most likely they will store their BTCs in multiple hardware wallets which are inside some safe locks which are closely monitored and secured. Imagine, if you are an owner of tens to hundreds to thousands of BTCs, you would definitely invest into securing your wallets safety. Unlike banks who store your moneys inside a safe lock, you have the sole responsibility of depositing and keeping them safe until you use them for a specific transaction.

You would almost find it impossible to hear that a person is keeping their BTCs inside a respective exchange due to the nature of it being scammed in the past.

pawanjain

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Considering that hardware wallets and air gap machines are the most secure wallets I think most of these whales would store their coins in these machines.
May be they are diversifying by storing their coins in different machines and storing them at different locations.
Nobody would announce their stored coins publicly anyway. So we can just speculate it.

tygeade

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Quote from: Leviathan.007 on August 04, 2022, 02:24:28 AM

There are many other topics about this to say how the whales are saving their bitcoins since none can make sure about the owner of each wallet address unless they leak something, you cannot make sure about the owner, because the whales are usually saving their bitcoin in multiple wallet addresses that's how they cannot be tracked by other people because instead of one big fat wallet they will have multiple normal wallets to stay away from getting tracked, also since they have many bitcoins and they bitcoins worth a lot they will spend some money to buy a cold hardware wallets because the free whales are mostly unreliable for them.

I mean you may not know the owner of it, but you could definitely know how it would be done by looking at the big numbers and see address' with huge bitcoins in them and how they are storing it. I personally faced with many people who had 5k btc or more, that was my job for a while (worked at local ledger affiliate in my nation) and I can tell you that I have seen people that printed it on paper to people who did much more work.

So, there isn't a single answer to this, there are methods from as basic as keep it on exchange (look at how much liquidity in exchanges, meaning people put their money there too), to complex stuff like having medallions made with the phrases and such.

tippytoes

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Quote from: Smartvirus on August 05, 2022, 04:28:06 PM

I don't think there is any specialty to it for whales and regular bitcoin enthusiast. The wallets are very affordable and available and crypto enthusiast get these, stalk there coins and keep there private keys or seed phrases safe. That's all that really matters in the end, the level of security you give to your seed phrase or private key as, they define whom has access to or owns the wallet and not just having a wallet itself.
I think these guys would be a lot regular about the way they go about there hodlings buy would occasionally move it unto the exchanges to make some profit off it. That's what it's often about for them isn't it.

I also don't think they have so much difference with regular crypto holder. Also, I think they also store in various addresses with secure keys. Not only one address but several. They can also possibly distributing their funds to different active trading accounts. I don't think they are only using one exchange in terms of trading their coins. But for sure, they also have similar mindset to regular crypto user when it comes to securing their funds.

Smartvirus

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I don't think there is any specialty to it for whales and regular bitcoin enthusiast. The wallets are very affordable and available and crypto enthusiast get these, stalk there coins and keep there private keys or seed phrases safe. That's all that really matters in the end, the level of security you give to your seed phrase or private key as, they define whom has access to or owns the wallet and not just having a wallet itself.
I think these guys would be a lot regular about the way they go about there hodlings buy would occasionally move it unto the exchanges to make some profit off it. That's what it's often about for them isn't it.

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Quote from: wxa7115 on August 05, 2022, 03:57:04 PM

Quote from: Jason Brendon on August 03, 2022, 12:11:07 AM

Big players like Michael Saylor, the president of EI, or even some exchanges, i have been wondering how these guys store their BTC, their solutions, and their hardware storage.

Do any insiders know something? BTC

They do not really have more options than us, they are either using a hardware wallet or some sort of cold storage to secure their coins properly.

Now outside of the basics they could have additional security measures, like storing their hardware wallet in a safe or in a secret room and hire guards to keep their personal belongings safe, however while that can improve security those are measures that are not necessary for the average holder like us since it is unlikely we will be attacked if we keep the fact we accumulate bitcoin a secret.

No one really knows but we could really assume about the basics but of course with added security.
As a whale or does simply hold huge chunks of coins whether bitcoin and other altcoins in the market then you cant really just make yourself that too confident on storing up your
hardware wallet under your bed specially if you do know that it isnt something an amount that you would be comfortable with on just having that kind of security.
Some might be using up non custodial wallets and making out some engaraved PK's on a metal sheet and store it on whatever they do prefer
but no one really knows on how they've been doing in terms of the security of their coins.

wxa7115

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Quote from: Jason Brendon on August 03, 2022, 12:11:07 AM

Big players like Michael Saylor, the president of EI, or even some exchanges, i have been wondering how these guys store their BTC, their solutions, and their hardware storage.

Do any insiders know something? BTC

They do not really have more options than us, they are either using a hardware wallet or some sort of cold storage to secure their coins properly.

Now outside of the basics they could have additional security measures, like storing their hardware wallet in a safe or in a secret room and hire guards to keep their personal belongings safe, however while that can improve security those are measures that are not necessary for the average holder like us since it is unlikely we will be attacked if we keep the fact we accumulate bitcoin a secret.

ChiBitCTy

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I know a few whales and they normally store their bitcoin in a number of ways. I know exchanges tend to store coins the same way as well. They normally store coins in a mix between cold storage wallets such as paper wallets as well as utilizing hardwares wallets such a Trezor and Ledger.

OgNasty

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True whales store their BTC at the bottom of the ocean. Typically as a result of a boating accident. At least that's what I hear. Makes sense given they spend a great deal of their life under the sea. I wouldn't know personally because I dropped my hardware wallet overboard while enjoying a sunset cruise. I wouldn't doubt it though. With such a vast area of our planet covered in water, it seems logical that a good chunk of the world's Bitcoin be stored there. My only question is, how long before someone starts a company combing seabeds for hardware wallets?

m2017

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Quote from: PrivacyG on August 04, 2022, 08:16:04 AM

Quote from: m2017 on August 04, 2022, 08:05:09 AM

They may have changed this method since then or it was just a lie as it is a public statement. I see no reason for the owners of fortunes to reveal such secrets.

Some people see banks as a storage method free of failure. I do not. I despise banks. I absolutely hate them and would never trust one in my life with anything. They failed multiple times before, they did sketchy stuff multiple times before and they are definitely not innocent today.

I gave only one example about whales which store their btc, which I know. considering that it really was just like that, and not otherwise. My personal attitude to banks, to put it mildly, is also not very positive. If I were a millionaire, then of course I would not keep my recovery phrase in the bank, like Winklevoss brothers. All the same, these are people of a completely different level and influence, therefore, what banks can apply to ordinary clients will in no case be used against such persons. "Quod licet Jovi, non licet bovi."

Quote from: PrivacyG on August 04, 2022, 08:16:04 AM

They do give you however this false feeling of safety. I, personally, would not trust storing my stuff at a stranger's place and one of the main reasons is that there is one HUGE point of failure. You never know whose eyes have been on your seed. With that being said, if you are a billionaire and suddenly become a three letter agency target, there is one question I have for you. Leaving morality and legality to the side, how hard is it really for a three letter agency to get to your safe?

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

I suppose that this will not be difficult for them, therefore, it is better for millionaires to use other storage methods. Whales too. Just in case.

PrivacyG

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Quote from: m2017 on August 04, 2022, 08:05:09 AM

They may have changed this method since then or it was just a lie as it is a public statement. I see no reason for the owners of fortunes to reveal such secrets.

Some people see banks as a storage method free of failure. I do not. I despise banks. I absolutely hate them and would never trust one in my life with anything. They failed multiple times before, they did sketchy stuff multiple times before and they are definitely not innocent today.

They do give you however this false feeling of safety. I, personally, would not trust storing my stuff at a stranger's place and one of the main reasons is that there is one HUGE point of failure. You never know whose eyes have been on your seed. With that being said, if you are a billionaire and suddenly become a three letter agency target, there is one question I have for you. Leaving morality and legality to the side, how hard is it really for a three letter agency to get to your safe?

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

m2017

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Quote from: PrivacyG on August 04, 2022, 05:15:38 AM

Quote from: m2017 on August 03, 2022, 01:23:41 PM

From the highlighted sentence in the text, it turns out that whales should store their crypto in a titanium safe, and the safe in an underground bunker under a mountain with protection?

I expected someone from whales to share his personal way here, at least incognito, but it looks like my expectations will be in vain.

Believe me or not, if I was a whale I would choose the best security I could get for my money. If that security requires what you said, I would if that made my dozens or hundreds of million safer.

I perfectly understand you and agree that when a lot of money is at stake, more attention should be paid to their safety, and this is reasonable. Saving on this can create unjustified risks.

I heard somewhere (can't remember the source) how Winklevoss brothers store their seed-phrase: it seems that the seed is divided into 3 parts and each part is stored in a safe deposit box in different banks. Something like that. They may have changed this method since then or it was just a lie as it is a public statement. I see no reason for the owners of fortunes to reveal such secrets.

Quote from: PrivacyG on August 04, 2022, 05:15:38 AM

It sounds insane to me to have millions on an online Electrum or on a mobile phone. It sounds just as insane to me to have this much money sitting on a Hardware Wallet that has a few backup papers hidden around the house. If I had that much money, I would definitely have much stronger security. But at the end of the day, I am typically very paranoid so that is to be expected on my end.

Just not on mobile phone. This method is suitable only for small amounts, for "pocket expenses". I would be very surprised if any one of the bitcoin-millionaires keeps his fortune on a mobile phone, even if he is technically very ill-informed.

GreatArkansas

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I believe they are not storing their funds in just one basket, having multiple wallets is a big help here, especially if you are whales and popular or well known in cryptocurrency.
Additional thing is they have other security precautions besides storing their Bitcoin or other way how their Bitcoins are safe beside storing it on some wallets.

teosanru

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Quote from: Jason Brendon on August 03, 2022, 12:11:07 AM

Big players like Michael Saylor, the president of EI, or even some exchanges, i have been wondering how these guys store their BTC, their solutions, and their hardware storage.

Do any insiders know something? BTC

Generally these happen in two ways, either on a cold storage which is a sort of a hardware wallet or in a private key hot wallet. I have even seen people storing a lot of coins on a central exchange as well. It's because these exchanges also don't target the big exchanges as these give them the most revenues. But yes cold storage on a hardware wallet like trezor is the safest option and most used option by al the whales. Moreover they don't even store it in one single wallet generally keep 3-4 hardware wallets to keep all their holdings.

PrivacyG

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Quote from: m2017 on August 03, 2022, 01:23:41 PM

From the highlighted sentence in the text, it turns out that whales should store their crypto in a titanium safe, and the safe in an underground bunker under a mountain with protection?

I expected someone from whales to share his personal way here, at least incognito, but it looks like my expectations will be in vain.

Believe me or not, if I was a whale I would choose the best security I could get for my money. If that security requires what you said, I would if that made my dozens or hundreds of million safer.

It sounds insane to me to have millions on an online Electrum or on a mobile phone. It sounds just as insane to me to have this much money sitting on a Hardware Wallet that has a few backup papers hidden around the house. If I had that much money, I would definitely have much stronger security. But at the end of the day, I am typically very paranoid so that is to be expected on my end.

I think franky wrote down the best way to do it. The big chunk in Airgapped devices or other top security measures, the smaller chunks on a Hardware Wallet and the smallest amounts on an Electrum or whatever. That way you are ensured the big chunk is safest.

-
Regards,
PrivacyG

Moeda

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Quote from: Jason Brendon on August 03, 2022, 12:11:07 AM

Big players like Michael Saylor, the president of EI, or even some exchanges, i have been wondering how these guys store their BTC, their solutions, and their hardware storage.

Do any insiders know something? BTC

Bitcoin is divided into several functions, trading, mining, holding, and gaming. There may be many other functions that can be used with Bitcoin.
The question is whether Michael Saylor trades Bitcoin himself? probably not. He is the shareholder of course every asset will be managed by their trusted team. If the asset exceeds the needs of the exchange, they will store it in a hardware wallet. It is possible in most exchanges to own shares of Michael Saylor.

Leviathan.007

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There are many other topics about this to say how the whales are saving their bitcoins since none can make sure about the owner of each wallet address unless they leak something, you cannot make sure about the owner, because the whales are usually saving their bitcoin in multiple wallet addresses that's how they cannot be tracked by other people because instead of one big fat wallet they will have multiple normal wallets to stay away from getting tracked, also since they have many bitcoins and they bitcoins worth a lot they will spend some money to buy a cold hardware wallets because the free whales are mostly unreliable for them.

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Quote from: coolcoinz on August 03, 2022, 04:02:54 PM

Quote from: livingfree on August 03, 2022, 02:39:16 PM

I've watched a video that a crypto company in Japan keeps their most bitcoins/crypto into a hardware wallet. It's safe and it has glass covers and only a few executives has direct access on it.

I can't remember the name of that company but it was an exchange.

I think that there's really no difference on how an individual bitcoin investor keeps his bitcoins safe on a hardware wallet and the same as the enterprises.

In the era of MtGox nobody knew about air gapped machines or hardware wallets. They had it all on bitcoin core wallets and we know how it went from there. At least the hookers that Karpeles was paying for were happy with the money they were making.

Most whales need fast access to their money so I'd expect them to hold it at home with keys on some engraved metal plate so it can't be destroyed in a fire. That's what I'd do. A wallet can be made small enough for you to hide it anywhere like in the floors or behind a lose tile in the kitchen. I have my coins on a hard drive in a fireproof safe. Even if someone manages to steal that I'll have backups hidden in a safe place that will allow me to access and move the funds before anybody can crack the password. The more money you have the more security you need.

It is true that there's more security that you need to do when you've got a lot of money and the same goes for the exchanges. They've got many ways of keeping it but that's one that I've seen before.

The way you're keeping your keys through engraved metal plates is actually a good one and it's not the first time I've read about it. My worry is that I've got no one that will do it for me since anyone can be a silent crypto investor and even that metal plate engraver could be aware of the private keys and I don't know how to DIY.

Maybe in the future, I'll do it on my own and years ago, it's not a problem to allow someone do this for me since only a few is aware of private keys.

goldkingcoiner

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Quote from: nullius on August 03, 2022, 02:34:13 PM

~autistic screeching

I confused the word multikey with multisignature and used the wrong word synonymously. Don't be an ass.

I was pointing out that even if you were to use multisig, no matter how complex, you would have the same problem at the endpoints as with multikey encryption of the actual seed phrase words. Even with M/N, in the end you are relying on "trusted agents". It does not matter how realistically large the size of the set N or the subset M is when every single "trusted agent" can be the weak point in security. In both cases you are still relying on trust and private key storage. But yes, multisig is more secure but nonetheless has the same security flaw. And don't say you can use multiple authenticators. Thats the worst security ever. What if something happens to you? Does your corporation die when you die because you centralized the multisig access to yourself?

Also, if you don't want to listen to anyone but yourself maybe you should stop posting on Bitcointalk? Just text yourself messages and reply to them every now and then. You are the only person who can deal with your pompousness. This place is for swapping ideas, not suffering your superiority complex and autistic finger-pointing at every single mistake someone else makes.

It was a mistake unignoring you. Roll Eyes

BITCOIN4X

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I think of hardware wallet that support multi signature as the best option for whales to securely store their bitcoin. Hardware wallet are ideal for storing large amounts of bitcoin, but either way I don't think they will keep them in one basket. Every user who invests in bitcoin be it small or big then it is they who are responsible who must follow best practices to secure their wallet. I think the whales know how they do it too, and I believe they are still better than most non-technical Legendary like me when it comes to their bitcoin storage.

If we have 1-2 hardware wallets, it's probably 10-100 hardware wallets for them, but who knows if they may also consider a centralized storage service.

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