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Topic: How, Why and When the Bitcoin Model will Fail - page 2. (Read 5729 times)

hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
The value of bitcoin doesn't have to drop simply because the money supply is in decline. So what if a satoshi is worth $200.

This what.  At Satoshi worth $0.1, bitcoin uses all the electrical energy produced in the world.  That's kind of a problem.

You're going to have to back that up with some maths.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1771378
Awesome. A list of numbers. How about some maths to back those estimates up?
Show me how you derived those figures.
Unless, of course, you just pulled them out of your ass. I've seen the Goatse image, I don't need to see it again.
sr. member
Activity: 407
Merit: 250
The value of bitcoin doesn't have to drop simply because the money supply is in decline. So what if a satoshi is worth $200.

This what.  At Satoshi worth $0.1, bitcoin uses all the electrical energy produced in the world.  That's kind of a problem.

You're going to have to back that up with some maths.


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1771378
legendary
Activity: 4466
Merit: 3391
What will happen when all of the 21 Million bitcoins are in circulation?

Bitcoin ... eventual and certain pricing decline, with a strong and continual downwards trend throughout.
Why? Quite simply because the money supply has stopped.
No one will want to buy into a currency that is in constant and perpetual decline. It will effectively be the exact opposite to what we have already seen to date. Bitcoins 'bankers' (the major miners and holders of bitcoins) will be clambering to sell and trade-off their bitcoins, as they become ever increasingly scarce and therefore 'worthless stock'. ...

I don't see the logic here. Less supply (with constant or rising demand) means increasing price, not decreasing price.

Now imagine, what would happen if say the US Federal Reserve one day just decided to stop printing any new money. All of the money in circulation would eventually, in theory, disappear. Moreover, Its overall value as a currency would certainly diminish, in favor of other new / existing currencies, crypto or otherwise. Bitcoins will not even be worth their 'weight' in anything! Cry

Why would the money disappear? Are you talking about dollar bills? The money that the Fed "prints" is electronic, not paper. How can you be certain that people would switch out of Bitcoin into another currency?
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
The value of bitcoin doesn't have to drop simply because the money supply is in decline. So what if a satoshi is worth $200.

This what.  At Satoshi worth $0.1, bitcoin uses all the electrical energy produced in the world.  That's kind of a problem.

You're going to have to back that up with some maths.
sr. member
Activity: 407
Merit: 250
The value of bitcoin doesn't have to drop simply because the money supply is in decline. So what if a satoshi is worth $200.

This what.  At Satoshi worth $0.1, bitcoin uses all the electrical energy produced in the world.  That's kind of a problem.

legendary
Activity: 2646
Merit: 1722
https://youtu.be/DsAVx0u9Cw4 ... Dr. WHO < KLF
You know, it really isn't necessary to respond to every troll that rehashes these topics.  If the original poster is too lazy to search for the thousands of threads that cover these topics in gruesome detail, why do you feel like you need to retype it all for him?

I've not been back on this board that long and yes I have a lot of reading to do. I'm hardly a troll, although you gotta love the trolls, right ?

I was looking way way into the future with this thread, its partly the reason why I don't have the thousands of BTC in my wallet that I once had, in fact I don't think I have any BTC left accessible to me at all anymore.

Please don't misunderstand my original post. Bitcoin is a currency and a commodity. That's its issue!

When the oil well's dry up are you going to be putting 'gas' into your cars still ? No, it will be something else entirely.

I wrote this topic as a warning for the future, that's all! The current bitcoin model does 'eventually' fail. So, just remember that and develop it along the way with that in mind! Most of all look after your wallets.

I love (to hate) Bitcoin !  Cheesy
legendary
Activity: 854
Merit: 1000
Quote
I think that "found" wallets could be more of a problem. Let's say that all but 1000 or so bitcoins remain in circulation in say the year 2200. These would still be viable for an economy as they can be sub-divided to many decimals. But, what if someone finds Grandpa's old computer with 10,000 BTC on it?

That is hilarious!  Nice thought.

If Grandpa followed proper wallet security and encrypted it like he should have, it might as well have BTC1,000,000 on it.

 Cheesy
Imagine that for a moment!!!! 60 years into the future, your grandson finds granpa's wallet with 1,000,000 btc in it and at that moment, a satoshi is 200$!!!!!!


Wow!!!! I'd love to give my grandchildren something like that!!
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
www.DonateMedia.org
Quote
I think that "found" wallets could be more of a problem. Let's say that all but 1000 or so bitcoins remain in circulation in say the year 2200. These would still be viable for an economy as they can be sub-divided to many decimals. But, what if someone finds Grandpa's old computer with 10,000 BTC on it?

That is hilarious!  Nice thought.

If Grandpa followed proper wallet security and encrypted it like he should have, it might as well have BTC1,000,000 on it.
sr. member
Activity: 462
Merit: 250
Your theory doesn't make any sense.

The value of bitcoin doesn't have to drop simply because the money supply is in decline. So what if a satoshi is worth $200. It just means that you can't use it as your primary currency. Instead, you swap your satoshi for BitcoinV2 and trade in that instead.

By that time I do not believe that Bitcoin would be the primary mode of exchange, instead it would become more like gold. It would be held on reserve and people would (hopefully) be using another alt coin as their primary exchange.

I believe Bitcoin will ultimately fail as a global currency because governments around the world will not allow it to happen. People need fiat in the short to medium term because you can't feed your family on Bitcoins. And very few governments around the world will want large amounts of wealth moving into a digital currency
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
What you basically are saying is that Bitcoin is doomed by its increasing value. How is this a bad for the currency?

No. All value is irrelevant. The model is 'doomed' because there will only ever be 21 Million Bitcoins.

That are currently divisible by 8 decimal places, with the capability to expand that if needed.

I don't see a problem.

Agree with Myrkul.

@OP - No, the bitcoins aren't consumed by being spent. We're expecting a slowly declining actual number of bitcoins once we reach 21m - and are prepared to add decimal places to compensate for the associated price increase. Right now we're still inflating the currency via block rewards.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
And couldn't some crazy advances in computing like quantum computers hack 256bit security?
That would screw up a lot more than just bitcoin, and would be quickly addressed.
hero member
Activity: 532
Merit: 500
FIAT LIBERTAS RVAT CAELVM
What you basically are saying is that Bitcoin is doomed by its increasing value. How is this a bad for the currency?

No. All value is irrelevant. The model is 'doomed' because there will only ever be 21 Million Bitcoins.

That are currently divisible by 8 decimal places, with the capability to expand that if needed.

I don't see a problem.
kjj
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1026
You know, it really isn't necessary to respond to every troll that rehashes these topics.  If the original poster is too lazy to search for the thousands of threads that cover these topics in gruesome detail, why do you feel like you need to retype it all for him?
member
Activity: 62
Merit: 10
Quote
I think that "found" wallets could be more of a problem. Let's say that all but 1000 or so bitcoins remain in circulation in say the year 2200. These would still be viable for an economy as they can be sub-divided to many decimals. But, what if someone finds Grandpa's old computer with 10,000 BTC on it?

That is hilarious!  Nice thought.
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
nothing to worry about, there will only be 500 million people on the planet by then.
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
www.DonateMedia.org
I hoped for a serious discussion, but OP is quite oddly deceived, unless he's a troll.

Deflation is a serious problem for any economy, nevertheless.

Eventually as other currencies are sucked into Bitcoin their buying power would stabilize, I think
sr. member
Activity: 252
Merit: 250
I hoped for a serious discussion, but OP is quite oddly deceived, unless he's a troll.

Deflation is a serious problem for any economy, nevertheless.
legendary
Activity: 1330
Merit: 1003
What you basically are saying is that Bitcoin is doomed by its increasing value. How is this a bad for the currency?

No. All value is irrelevant. The model is 'doomed' because there will only ever be 21 Million Bitcoins.

There are not enough bitcoins to sustain adoption by the masses, in accordance with population growth against an increasing number of internet users.

Aside from this, assume that say only 10 bitcoins a year are 'lost', because someone dies and no one knows the password for their wallet etc.

In the early days, on this forum, I once sold someone 1,200 bitcoins, they tried to transfer them to a usb via a linux 'live' cd... and lost them.

'No worries' you might say we can still trade 0.1 , 0.01 , 0.001 . 0.0001 , 0.00001 etc.

I does not matter how long this takes, once 21 Million bitcoins are generated, it will happen.

Reverse / flip this triangle image, as if it were my modeled graph.



C to A is the boom. Point A is 21 Million Bitcoins. A to B is the inevitable and intangible 'deprecation' back to zero.

In the actual models I ran C to A was usually more curved i.e. the opposite concave to this...



A to B was less steep and even flat, but the outcome is always the same. That's the model, reality will be different, but there is only one overall conclusion. Eventually 0 Bitcoins are left.

Perhaps eventually, I think a more realistic concern is that Bitcoin is rendered obsolete by some new technology or a huge portion of the worlds computers are destroyed by EMP or something of that sorts. I just don't think this is a legitimate concern.

Assuming that the network still functions, the less Bitcoins the more they are worth. If the price dropped, that means they are likely to circulate more, in other words becoming a valid currency again. If circulation drops, the price will rise.

Would you say that because eventually we may run out of gold, uranium or some other valuable metal, it would start to drop in value as we got close to running out? I don't think so.

Furthermore, as much as most of us would hate it, from what I understand the system could be changed to bring back small block rewards if it became absolutely necessary.
full member
Activity: 154
Merit: 100
I think that "found" wallets could be more of a problem. Let's say that all but 1000 or so bitcoins remain in circulation in say the year 2200. These would still be viable for an economy as they can be sub-divided to many decimals. But, what if someone finds Grandpa's old computer with 10,000 BTC on it?
full member
Activity: 144
Merit: 100
You forget that paper is not durable, and this is the reason that bills are removed from supply.

In the case of BTC, their durability is dependent on the strength of the network, and a user's ability to store password information properly.

How durable will networks be in 100 years? The future is never certain.
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