How will CBDCs will impact Bitcoin? - page 2.

fzkto

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Quote from: Darker45 on November 19, 2022, 10:23:14 PM

Not much. CBDCs are still fiat currencies that are made digital. They're not much different from the fiat that we use through fiat online wallets. It's just that there's no more hard cash representing them. They remain centralized because they're still issued by governments' central banks. They are still subject to the same inflationary mechanism. They're still continuously devalued. They're still under the control and decision of a few powerful individuals. The disadvantage, however, is that they're more easily tracked, monitored, frozen, seized, confiscated.

The point is it doesn't actually compete against Bitcoin.

CBDC does not compete with bitcoin as long as there is fiat and digital money. Once this type of money ceases to exist and banks switch to CBDC only, cryptocurrencies will immediately become illegal. I don't think it will happen soon, but when it does, we will be facing a digital concentration camp with social ratings and lack of freedom. In China, this is already an accepted practice.

davis196

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1.This question has been asked a million times on the forum. Asking it one more time doesn't add anything to the conversation. You are a Legendary Member, you should already know this.
2.The countries in your list aren't financial and technological global superpowers. I'm 99% sure that their CBDC projects will fail in the long term. Even if they launch CBDCs, their impact over crypto will be close to zero.
3.I'm still waiting to see a global superpower like China or the USA launching CBDCs. AFAIK, for some reason their CBDC projects aren't launched. Maybe I'm wrong about China. Anyway, a China CBDC won't impact crypto at all, because crypto is basically banned in China.

Jawhead999

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Quote from: fuguebtc on November 19, 2022, 08:53:52 AM

Fiat is not completely anonymous but it can still be anonymous, just like criminals use fiat to launder money and do their evil deeds without being detected by the police. But if we get rid of fiat completely and replace it with CBDC, things can be very different because the government can control everything even our smallest actions.

If we talking about criminals use fiat to launder money, it must be huge amount. Do you know how big and heavy if you carry large cash? you will need few suitcase in order to bought it, of course it will bring attention for police to check your suitcase. Although you may have other way to hide it, but it's still big and heavy, it will be hard to avoid it.

Quote from: dimonstration on November 19, 2022, 09:56:18 AM

I think he mean the paper cash transaction from person to person unless someone will identify the fingerprint of the owner which makes them trackable but I do agree on logic with paper cash deal since its a physical circulation which no one monitor the flow from person to person.

I absolutely know if he mean a paper cash, but as I said above it's not anonymous since you can still interact with other people in real life and you can't bring huge amount cash since it's big and heavy, which make it's not anonymous.

Darker45

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Not much. CBDCs are still fiat currencies that are made digital. They're not much different from the fiat that we use through fiat online wallets. It's just that there's no more hard cash representing them. They remain centralized because they're still issued by governments' central banks. They are still subject to the same inflationary mechanism. They're still continuously devalued. They're still under the control and decision of a few powerful individuals. The disadvantage, however, is that they're more easily tracked, monitored, frozen, seized, confiscated.

The point is it doesn't actually compete against Bitcoin.

crunck

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this has been said a lot before, CBDC will never be able to impact bitcoin, CBDC is just a digital version of fiat today and we can see that fiat is not a competitor to bitcoin, so CBDC is no different. But with the advent of CBDC, I am really afraid that our privacy will be more tightly controlled by the government, they can know our assets and can freeze anytime they want. CBDC is something very bad.

BitDane

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Quote from: Blawpaw on November 19, 2022, 05:16:04 AM

So, how do you guys think will affect Bitcoin?

I do not think it will affect Bitcoin greatly. Those the implements CBDC's hasn't been a Bitcoin fan anyway. Besides, CBDC and Bitcoin has different market and target audience. So I do not think that it will make Bitcoin market crash or whatever.

Quote from: jaberwock on November 19, 2022, 04:39:41 PM

Many think it will because they think this is another competitor and it was bigger than the normal crypto because it was backed by the government or the banks but they didn't realize that these CBDC's are slightly different with cryptos. They are pretty much the same with local currencies but they are only digitalized for online use.

It is centralized so definitely not a competitor of Bitcoin because people who had experience decentralization will never wanted go back to centralization as much as possible. Besides I think nothing changes because it is the same as fiat money but in digital form.

jaberwock

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Quote from: DeathAngel on November 19, 2022, 09:52:22 AM

I don’t think CBDC’s will negatively impact bitcoin at all. If anything it’ll probably push people towards bitcoin. CBDC’s are controlling & restrictive, where as bitcoin is great for people to control their own wealth.

Nobody wants the government being able to control their shopping & what they spend. CBDC’s are one step closer to social credit scores & literally nobody wants that. I suggest you buy bitcoin before CBDC’s come in & governments ban you from buying bitcoin.

Bitcoin is the future, CBDC’s are restrictive. Do not let anybody have the chance to stop you spending your money how you want to. Bitcoin is empowering & governments don’t like that.

Many think it will because they think this is another competitor and it was bigger than the normal crypto because it was backed by the government or the banks but they didn't realize that these CBDC's are slightly different with cryptos. They are pretty much the same with local currencies but they are only digitalized for online use.

Some btc or crypto users will try them and maybe like them only to make things more easier for them but it doesn't mean they will totally migrate there. There will always be a demand for btc because this was still the main crypto. Btc is the future of money while CBDC's is the future form of the traditional currencies.

Captain Corporate

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People do not realize what CBDC really is, and that's why they are so afraid of it. The reality is that it's something simple, it's USDT or BUSD basically but controlled by the government. First of all, when we get in and out of exchanges KYC means we are already tracked, which means when you turn your USD into USDT that means you are already tracked. So instead of trusting a company in the Bahamas and buying usdt, or trusting CZ and buying busd, you will trust the American government and buy their CBDC instead for example. I still wouldn't trust the nations listed in OP's message, but if a big nation does it, then I will trust it.

The Cryptovator

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CBDC, in my personal view, will assist Bitcoin. It will have no effect on Bitcoin. We are having some issues with Bitcoin trades locally, such as p2p where Bitcoin is not legal. CDBC would make trading more efficient and faster. Centralized coins, which are infrequently controlled by the government, will not compete with decentralized currencies such as Bitcoin. So I'm positive about CDBC. At the very least, the government recognizes the significance of Bitcoin.

bittraffic

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I do think CBDC will be massively used compared to cryptocurrency and in some cases, people will also be using CBDC to buy cryptocurrency as it would be allowed also.

Quote from: franky1 on November 19, 2022, 05:24:07 AM

to normal fiat people they will just see it as another phone app. like paypal or venmo

certain CBDC are not as "overwatch" as tinfoil hat's proclaim
many of them have like a dozen different commercial banks being the account providers. where the commercial banks do the KYC.
and where within the commercial bank app. there are 3 levels of account
account limits(spendability amount per month) =under $xxx has no KYC
(imagine it like virtual debit card)
then basic kyc for above min salary to below small business amounts. then full KYC for the wealthier/business accounts

of course the currency inside the apps is not going to be deflationary so again its just fiat in a new app

so people will still, much like today want to hedge that inflation via a deflationary asset

This no KYC is probably just from the beginning but after a few years of adoption, they will be asking KYC. Nonetheless, CBDC is also here to stay.
Only those with tinfoil will keep hiding thier crypto unlinked to thier CBDC app account.

Smartvirus

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Quote from: franky1 on November 19, 2022, 05:24:07 AM

of course the currency inside the apps is not going to be deflationary so again its just fiat in a new app

This is just the right way to look at it. I think there is really nothing new about the whole CBDC system from one having a local bank mobile bal and following up on his day yo day transactions. It'd as normal as it gets and for me, I doubt I would have any reason to key into the CBDC idea, I still see it to have nothing to offer other than being some fiat in an app.
Without operating the app to see what it's enter phase has to offer or the services there in, I would expect it to create a room for swapping and trading currencies else, what they only archive is some virtual fiat and nothing more.

dimonstration

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Quote from: Jawhead999 on November 19, 2022, 06:09:07 AM

Quote from: Blawpaw on November 19, 2022, 05:35:31 AM

Sure, but paper fiat cash is the most anonymous form of value you can find, whereas a CBDC is a representation of fiat paper cash that is fully trackable. So, with heavy regulation in place against cryptos won't this have a negative effect over Bitcoin?

I'm just wondering how much you can withdraw from your banks without getting asked why you always withdraw your money. Banks will ask you regarding what's the reason you withdraw your money and they're actually already know what have you done with your money, they just want to verify it. Don't forget someone that you've traded can expose your illegal business (if you did for criminal) and there's many CCTV can trace you.

Fiat isn't anonymous and CBDC will not give any impact to Bitcoin.

I think he mean the paper cash transaction from person to person unless someone will identify the fingerprint of the owner which makes them trackable but I do agree on logic with paper cash deal since its a physical circulation which no one monitor the flow from person to person.

Back to the topic, Many discuss this before when stablecoin first introduce that it will be affected Bitcoin and look exactly what happening on crypto market by just Tether manipulating its supply. I wonder what will the implications if USDT became rouge. I don’t want to completely ignore CBDC but let’s not worried about until it was already making some noise in the market.

DeathAngel

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I don’t think CBDC’s will negatively impact bitcoin at all. If anything it’ll probably push people towards bitcoin. CBDC’s are controlling & restrictive, where as bitcoin is great for people to control their own wealth.

Nobody wants the government being able to control their shopping & what they spend. CBDC’s are one step closer to social credit scores & literally nobody wants that. I suggest you buy bitcoin before CBDC’s come in & governments ban you from buying bitcoin.

Bitcoin is the future, CBDC’s are restrictive. Do not let anybody have the chance to stop you spending your money how you want to. Bitcoin is empowering & governments don’t like that.

tranthidung

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Quote from: fuguebtc on November 19, 2022, 08:53:52 AM

Fiat is not completely anonymous but it can still be anonymous, just like criminals use fiat to launder money and do their evil deeds without being detected by the police. But if we get rid of fiat completely and replace it with CBDC, things can be very different because the government can control everything even our smallest actions.

But it is true that CBDC cannot affect bitcoin because in my opinion bitcoin is not a currency but an asset more like gold, but regulation will affect bitcoin.

Both fiat currencies and CBDCs are traceable but with CBDCs and blockchain technology, governments can have more easily to do their works.

With fiat currencies, in countries with good laws and regulations, their governments can have enough data to trace flow of your money and can more easily to detect money laundering. This is a good example on how regulations can contribute to help society better.

After the Terra and FTX collapses and some related entities, I believe more regulations will be executed soon but it is good for cryptocurrency and blockchain ecosystems in future.

fuguebtc

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Quote from: Jawhead999 on November 19, 2022, 06:09:07 AM

Quote from: Blawpaw on November 19, 2022, 05:35:31 AM

Sure, but paper fiat cash is the most anonymous form of value you can find, whereas a CBDC is a representation of fiat paper cash that is fully trackable. So, with heavy regulation in place against cryptos won't this have a negative effect over Bitcoin?

I'm just wondering how much you can withdraw from your banks without getting asked why you always withdraw your money. Banks will ask you regarding what's the reason you withdraw your money and they're actually already know what have you done with your money, they just want to verify it. Don't forget someone that you've traded can expose your illegal business (if you did for criminal) and there's many CCTV can trace you.

Fiat isn't anonymous and CBDC will not give any impact to Bitcoin.

Fiat is not completely anonymous but it can still be anonymous, just like criminals use fiat to launder money and do their evil deeds without being detected by the police. But if we get rid of fiat completely and replace it with CBDC, things can be very different because the government can control everything even our smallest actions.

But it is true that CBDC cannot affect bitcoin because in my opinion bitcoin is not a currency but an asset more like gold, but regulation will affect bitcoin.

pooya87

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Quote from: DaveF on November 19, 2022, 08:27:38 AM

Agreeing with NeuroticFish that this has been talked about and talked about over and over.

But, I was discussing this the other day with some other people and one of them pointed out that there is no answer to this question other then:

'It depends where you are' Most of the places listed in the OP are smaller nations. If say picking on a random country on the map...Argentina....did it that would have a different impact then if say Canada did it then if the Philippines did it.

So, thinking about it the answer is, there is no answer.....

-Dave

I disagree. It doesn't matter on the location, what matters is the "HOW". For example when PayPal, credit cards, debit cards or even bitcoin were created they didn't change anything in the existing monetary system. You can and do still use cash and all existing methods are usable, the only difference is that now you have multiple options to choose from depending on the level of privacy, security and convenience you need.

Most probably CBDC will be another extra options on top of existing ones that won't change a thing in existing options.
However, HOW they enforce its usage makes the difference. If some government (be it Argentinean or Canadian government) decided to go full dictator mode and force everyone to use only CBDC and nothing else then it would be different than if they were suggesting it as an extra option with "benefits"(!) that you could freely choose to use.

DaveF

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Agreeing with NeuroticFish that this has been talked about and talked about over and over.

But, I was discussing this the other day with some other people and one of them pointed out that there is no answer to this question other then:

'It depends where you are' Most of the places listed in the OP are smaller nations. If say picking on a random country on the map...Argentina....did it that would have a different impact then if say Canada did it then if the Philippines did it.

So, thinking about it the answer is, there is no answer.....

-Dave

btc_angela

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I don't think it will have a big impact on Bitcoin. On the contrary, it might bring new set of investors on the market. I mean if people realizes what CBDC is, as government might have total control of everyone as they can be track then perhaps they will shift to crypto such as BTC.

And we don't need to wait though, as far as I know there are countries who are already doing a test pilot and so far we are not affected by it in any form.

sunsilk

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I'm thinking about the same impact that Tether made to bitcoin. When there are new printed Tether in the circulation, it buffs the price of bitcoin.

So in theory, that could be the same for CBDCs as we've got new sets and versions of Tether that might inject a lot of money again to the market. Well, that's what I can think of since it's just another version of a stable coin.

tranthidung

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Quote from: Blawpaw on November 19, 2022, 05:16:04 AM

CBDCs are coming, and they spell the end of the Private monetary policy as we know it. The list of countries adopting CBDCs is growing at a fast pace:

You can follow that website, CBDCtracker.org and get more updates and more details about countries that already launched or might launch their CBDCs. There are some main categories: Cancelled, Research, Proof of concept, Pilot, Launched on that website.

Quote

Governments have already understood the sheer potential of the Blockchain to impose Total monetary control.

So, how do you guys think will affect Bitcoin?

You are asking about a story between an egg and a chicken. There would be no Bitcoin if there are no fiat currencies and centralization, inflation from them. There would be no CBDCs if there is no Bitcoin.

All of cryptocurrency types will co-exist and they will interact with each other, support each other, compete with other in order to upgrade themselves better and bring more convenience to human.

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