Hyperinflation - Will it lead Countries to Adopt Bitcoin? - page 4.

The Sceptical Chymist

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Quote from: cabron on May 16, 2024, 02:55:21 AM

Analysts emphasized that people still accept the local currency because there is a working banking system in the country which means that Gold, Silver, and Bitcoin, will only work when there is already no financial system that is working. This sounds like chaos already. If you are to prepare for what is to come would you wait for the chaos to start?

Gold & silver are not going to be used in any sort of hyperinflation setting, nor is bitcoin--at least not widely. There have been recent examples of hyperinflation in a few countries (over the past few years), and if a country's currency suddenly becomes worthless people will try to get access to and use another stable fiat currency. That makes a hell of a lot more sense to people than using gold/silver, which they might not have and don't have money to buy or bitcoin, which also has to be purchased on an exchange that the typical citizen might not be familiar with (or familiar with bitcoin for that matter) or have the patience to figure out.

Everyone is comfortable with fiat currency. Much fewer people are comfortable using an alternative like bitcoin, which carries an extremely high volatility risk, not to mention network fees that can be costly and the fact that you really have to know how to get it and use it and keep it secure, which might frustrate some folks who are in the midst of an economic crisis.

This topic has been discussed quite a few times over the years, btw.

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Quote from: Dunamisx on May 18, 2024, 09:42:22 AM

I have hope that hyperinflation will get to a certain extent whereby many countries will have nothing left for them as an alternative to perfect their economy than in adopting for bitcoin use in the country, because over several years, the fiat system and government couldn't help in the situation of the economic challenge than to create a sustained inflation towards the economy and in which the people are the ones being affected the most.

there are a few options to do but some of those options are not for the fainted hearts. but as long as their central banks can print money, it's going to be tragic for the lives of the people. BTC would have been good if they tried adopting when the price had taken a nose dive to $17k. but i think it's still not too late if they start now.

a few months ago Melei was trying to adopt USD. i guess he also realized that all currencies are devalued.

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I have hope that hyperinflation will get to a certain extent whereby many countries will have nothing left for them as an alternative to perfect their economy than in adopting for bitcoin use in the country, because over several years, the fiat system and government couldn't help in the situation of the economic challenge than to create a sustained inflation towards the economy and in which the people are the ones being affected the most.

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Quote from: cabron on May 16, 2024, 02:55:21 AM

I'm asking because even today in Argentina, merchants will still prefer to accept the Argentine Peso regardless of the hyperinflation that devalues their currency. This is just based on what a friend said to me.

Analysts emphasized that people still accept the local currency because there is a working banking system in the country which means that Gold, Silver, and Bitcoin, will only work when there is already no financial system that is working. This sounds like chaos already. If you are to prepare for what is to come would you wait for the chaos to start?

President Melei expressed he is a Bitcoin President which is why I think there will be adoption of Bitcoin in the country since there are news already popping out such as:

Quote

Argentina Will Mine Bitcoin With Stranded Gas Thanks To Genesis Digital Assets (GDA)
https://www.forbes.com/sites/digital-assets/2024/05/07/argentina-will-mine-bitcoin-with-stranded-gas-thanks-to-gda/?sh=3cc801da45f9
Genesis Digital Assets to Launch Flare Gas Powered Bitcoin Mining Site in Argentina
https://news.bitcoin.com/genesis-digital-assets-to-launch-flare-gas-powered-bitcoin-mining-site-in-argentina/

If at first, we are only seeing El Salvador mining BTC through their volcanoes, I think President Melei is following that path in mining BTC as well.
If you see the future and how the smaller countries follow the path, you may be seeing the populist candidate in your country being a Bitcoin president. One that is rising as of now is Maya Parbhoe from Suriname. She is running as president in a country that might also be adopting Bitcoin in the future. The number of presidents changing thier stance about Bitcoin will grow gradually and Trump is even one of them.

But for now, I want to introduce you to Maya Parbhoe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Bc4MpSyXo

This seems like a pipe dream for bitcoin enthusiasts. While bitcoin has proven that a decentralized cryptocurrency is possible, bitcoin doesn't have anywhere near the capacity to handle all the transaction activity of pretty much any country in the world. It is not efficient or fast enough to handle it, plus it would struggle with all the micro transaction type day to day activities. When people are out shopping, they are not interested in waiting around for the Blockchain to validate their transaction. Credit card and other payment processors are already doing this much more effectively.

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Quote from: MusaMohamed on May 16, 2024, 08:01:11 AM

Quote from: sunsilk on May 16, 2024, 04:24:15 AM

Argentina's government can mine Bitcoin if ever they want and it's not related to the hyperinflation that they're having because it is just another source or business that they're having.

If they do it, they will not be the first country which officially mine Bitcoin nationwide and at governmental scale. I can remember Bhutan, El Salvador are one of countries which have governmental Bitcoin mining activities recent years.

El Salvador mines 474 Bitcoin using geothermal volcanic energy
Bhutan has been mining Bitcoin with hydropower since BTC price was $5,000

Yeah, there are governments that have already announced that they're mining Bitcoin. But it doesn't matter at all whether they'll do it or not because we can be sure that there are citizens from their country who have been mining Bitcoin and are low profile.

Quote from: MusaMohamed on May 16, 2024, 08:01:11 AM

Quote

And most of the countries that are into hyperinflation, they're using other currencies that they can accept. Like for Venezuela, they're accepting US dollars and people there are using bank transfers for every purchase they make.

So, going with Bitcoin as their alternative currency for payments, it's not impossible just as in other countries. They've got merchants that are accepting payments in Bitcoin.

If their countries have problems with hyper inflation, it is consequence of long lasting improper and unhealthy economics policies over many years and they can not simply use Bitcoin as a rescuing mean for their economies or hyper-inflated fiat currencies. Bitcoin does not have such magic impact on any national economy and fiat currency.

The government has the big contribution as usual with hyperinflation. Wrong decisions from their leadership and other policies that are not pro citizens can cause pull outs of big investments and businesses in the country.

Quote from: iBaba on May 16, 2024, 12:28:35 PM

Exactly. Whether inflation or not, countries exploring the Bitcoin technology is the best way to go. I am somehow close to how governments are run, with the little information I have, exploring new ideas and sampling them on the country is the best way to sustainable development in any country. Countries that thrive the most are countries that take their time to explore new ideas and advancements, whereas, countries that do not open doors to technological advancements, have a delayed or lack development as a whole.

Bitcoin is one monumental advancement to the world of financial technology and the earlier governments open their arms to it, the better. Aspects that will greatly benefit the government will especially be via investments

As long as it's very beneficial to the country, they've got cheap electricity and they can invest to ASICS, that's no problem to them if they'll allot a fund for it.

But it sounds odd if they'll use public funds for it.

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the thing that holds back most of country from adopting bitcoin is the volatile nature of it, some country just worry so much about the fluctuation that it could spell an end to their economy since some of country economy are fragile towards any slight economic phenomenon I think thats why many countries just decide to adopt bitcoin in other way such as just recognizing it as a commodity for investment and thats it.
there are many countries with the citizens not being able to afford fluctuation and price inflation let alone price swing of massive 10%-20% within a night so I guess that might be the reason.
but countries could definitely adopt the technology though since the technology of blockchain is really a breakthrough for voting for example.
but I doubt it will be adopted as a currency in this time around, so many countries are just simply too hesitant because the price could vary a lot.
thats why they also create CBDC in the first place.

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Quote from: davis196 on May 16, 2024, 06:08:17 AM

The short answer to your question is NO. Bitcoin is a volatile financial asset and a store of value. It's like asking the question "Will the country adopt gold in order to replace a hyperinflated fiat national currency?" Of course not. You have to remind yourself about the Thomas Gresham's law that states "bad money always pushes good money out of circulation". It's better to spend worthless Argentinian pesos for goods and services, rather than spending BTC or gold. The Argentinian pesos might lose value tomorrow, while BTC and gold will most likely increase their value in the future.

I am not entirely sure if that is right. I mean I do not disagree that it is volatile and the fact that it is a long term investment, but the fact is that we are going to probably see a lot of people who will approach bitcoin as a great method when there is hyperinflation, which they did during the pandemic period.

Why do you think that we broke the record and reached a new all time high, and even ETF's got accepted after that? Because people realized that hyperinflation was a serious threat and that is why we are seeing what we are seeing right now. A lot of people realized that they need to make their money one way or another, and because of that we are seeing the changes in the price eventually, bitcoin could be a solution to it.

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In my research, Venezuela is one of the countries that, due to hyperinflation, was able to adopt bitcoin to survive. That's why they are still thankful, because hyperinflation seems to
have been a blessing in leading them to Bitcoin adoption.

I hope other countries can also see how Bitcoin can provide financial help or solutions to each country's economic problems.

reference:

a. https://youtu.be/M_eIlWYbQ-I
b. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/10/this-latin-american-country-could-adopt-bitcoin-as-an-official-currency/

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Quote from: pooya87 on May 17, 2024, 12:15:55 AM

Quote from: peter0425 on May 17, 2024, 12:09:20 AM

Once the investors of bitcoin get wealthy and ~~

That's a double edged sword.
Another way of looking at this is bitcoin can make a lot of people poorer, specially when they look at bitcoin as a tool "to get wealthy". What we call "weak hands" consists of such people in general. For example they buy bitcoin at $40k and then panic sell at $35k just because there was a correction then buy back at $50k just to panic sell at $45k.

Investing, just as any other thing in this world is not made for everyone. I wouldn't feel bad for them nor would I blame bitcoin for their losses because such is life.
Even children are not for everyone. Most people will take care of them, but some parents turn out to be pedophiles, or leave their children to starve while they're getting drunk.
If someone is a weak hand panic seller, he's not an investor material and you could give him some money for free and he'd eventually lose it. Now imagine what such person will do under real pressure that can be created by taking a loan to invest in bitcoin and seeing the price lose 10% in a day.
Back to the topic, bitcoin can be adopted, but I doubt that people will see it as a currency. They'll rather see a store of value and that's what countries and pension funds want. They'd rather have a deflationary store of value than a stable currency.

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Quote from: pooya87 on May 17, 2024, 12:15:55 AM

Another way of looking at this is bitcoin can make a lot of people poorer, specially when they look at bitcoin as a tool "to get wealthy". What we call "weak hands" consists of such people in general. For example they buy bitcoin at $40k and then panic sell at $35k just because there was a correction then buy back at $50k just to panic sell at $45k.

There is a continuation on this pattern lol. These people will ended up spreading FUD about how scammy bitcoin is to an average joe after they lost money

Quote from: Real_Person on May 17, 2024, 01:34:37 PM

Our community needs to help educate the masses to not believe the lies.

You basically cant do anything to it. USA thinks they own the world and they will chase you up with all those SEC charges when they smell something fishy. Im actually quite content with current bitcoin status, as a digital asset and not currency. By standing on this status quo, there is a good chance that we might be standing next to gold marketcap in like 20 years or so on without having to worry about anything like SEC making scenes regarding cryptocurrencies all over the world

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Yes, some countries will adopt Bitcoin when Hyperinflation makes things really ugly. Sadly, many places - including the USA - will probably be very loud and clear that they consider BTC to be the cause of a Global economic disaster. Our community needs to help educate the masses to not believe the lies.

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actually adopting bitcoin as legal tender in argentina will not solve the hyperinflation problem that is occurring in that country. even when the argentinian government plans to carry out bitcoin mining using their gas it still hasn't solved the problem. because the problem of hyperinflation is very complex and cannot be solved with just such a solution.

especially when discussing argentina and el salvador, these two countries cannot be compared, because firstly el salvador is a much smaller country compared to argentina, secondly argentina has a banking system that is still active with debt securities that are still active, and thirdly, the value bitcoin is still not stable enough to maintain argentina's economy. so there are many reasons why even though president melei really wants to adopt bitcoin, he can't because it could make the problem worse.

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Quote from: cabron on May 16, 2024, 02:55:21 AM

I'm asking because even today in Argentina, merchants will still prefer to accept the Argentine Peso regardless of the hyperinflation that devalues their currency. This is just based on what a friend said to me.

They'll be forced to accept Argentine Peso and that's normal. Every country prioritizes national currency and demands from every business to accept it.

I don't know why but too many people misunderstand how economy works. First of all, let's agree that Bitcoin is not a magic stick, then we also have to agree that money means nothing if we all sit at home and do nothing.
Argentina has to stop printing money instead of adopting Bitcoin. They have to stimulate people, young ones, the workforce, create a good working environment with normal salaries and improve the quality of life of people. But sadly, instead of that, they make populist statements, blame different things and so on.

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It feels like those struggling with hyperinflation should have very low trust in fiat and thus be encouraged to try Bitcoin as an alternative. Moreover, Bitcoin is actually less volatile than some of those hyperinflationary currencies. But it's interesting that the op points out that it's not happening in Argentina. Perhaps familiarity and status quo play a bigger role than some expect it to play, and people want stability which, of course, they still associate with fiat and certainly not with Bitcoin.
But we'll see the road Argentina will take, and perhaps Bitcoin can become huge there if the right infrastructure for its daily usage becomes available.

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Quote from: cabron on May 16, 2024, 02:55:21 AM

I'm asking because even today in Argentina, merchants will still prefer to accept the Argentine Peso regardless of the hyperinflation that devalues their currency. This is just based on what a friend said to me.

Analysts emphasized that people still accept the local currency because there is a working banking system in the country which means that Gold, Silver, and Bitcoin, will only work when there is already no financial system that is working. This sounds like chaos already. If you are to prepare for what is to come would you wait for the chaos to start?

It won't be easy for a whole country to start adopting Bitcoin as an actual currency, but it will definitely be easy for an INDIVIDUAL to adopt Bitcoin as a self-custody Store Of Value. To illustrate the point, pretend that there was a Banking Crisis that caused a bank run, and with many people having lost access to the money in their bank accounts. If you have some of your savings HODLed in Bitcoin, then you would have a fall-back/back-up.

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Quote from: cabron on May 16, 2024, 02:55:21 AM

I'm asking because even today in Argentina, merchants will still prefer to accept the Argentine Peso regardless of the hyperinflation that devalues their currency.

Yes, that's the case in any country you visit, the reason for that is the availability of the traders and in simple words exchanges. Merchants prefer Argentine Peso in Argentina because they can easily utilize that Peso and can buy goods with it again without much difficulty but as compare to that using of Bitcoin isn't easy and that's why merchants try to ignore it.

I know that Bitcoin is very important and it can be very useful as a reserve asset but it's not good for transactions anymore due to the congestions that take place on its network and similarly Bitcoin isn't safe from hackers and that's why the ones who aren't knowledgeable about Bitcoin don't prefer it as a way of payment and still go with fiat system.

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It won't, they'll probably just make another legislation or law to create another currency for the country, sort of like a reset to their old currency but it's a drastic measure though. It would be a really difficult thing to do though, to use bitcoin as an alternative for a country suffering from hyperinflation, the difficulty would stem in the fact that bitcoin is expensive and the volatility of the market would be a really hard time for a complete adoption, look at what happened to the Chivo wallet in El Salvador, there's not a lot of activities right now in their wallet and they've become a victim of recent hacks thus lowering the trust in that wallet, bitcoin won't be the biggest solution that you can get when it comes to hyperinflation, there are other reforms and legislations that are outside of bitcoin adoption but still in the scope of economic management that will be better to be focused on that would significantly impact that hyperinflation issue.

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Quote from: pooya87 on May 17, 2024, 12:15:55 AM

Quote from: peter0425 on May 17, 2024, 12:09:20 AM

Once the investors of bitcoin get wealthy and ~~

That's a double edged sword.
Another way of looking at this is bitcoin can make a lot of people poorer, specially when they look at bitcoin as a tool "to get wealthy". What we call "weak hands" consists of such people in general. For example they buy bitcoin at $40k and then panic sell at $35k just because there was a correction then buy back at $50k just to panic sell at $45k.

I think it could also segregate the rich and the poor even more.

Even though investing in bitcoin with only little amount is possible, those who are capable of investing huge amounts will obviously be richer than the rest and those with no knowledge about bitcoin will get left behind.

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Quote from: pooya87 on May 17, 2024, 12:15:55 AM

That's a double edged sword.
Another way of looking at this is bitcoin can make a lot of people poorer, specially when they look at bitcoin as a tool "to get wealthy". What we call "weak hands" consists of such people in general. For example they buy bitcoin at $40k and then panic sell at $35k just because there was a correction then buy back at $50k just to panic sell at $45k.

Bitcoin is Bitcoin and there is a market to trade Bitcoin. In the market, money flows around and bitcoins change hands among different people. I win, other lose and Bitcoin itself can not bring wealth to everyone in the market.

It can help intelligent investors who are disciplined, well strategied and already learned about the market, before investing, to get profit. It can not help lazy investors who are not actual investors but more similar to speculators or gamblers, they will lose money in this market to intelligent investors.

Gamblers are more sensitive with fud and more easily be panic with news than intelligent investors.

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Quote from: peter0425 on May 17, 2024, 12:09:20 AM

Once the investors of bitcoin get wealthy and ~~

That's a double edged sword.
Another way of looking at this is bitcoin can make a lot of people poorer, specially when they look at bitcoin as a tool "to get wealthy". What we call "weak hands" consists of such people in general. For example they buy bitcoin at $40k and then panic sell at $35k just because there was a correction then buy back at $50k just to panic sell at $45k.

Topic: Hyperinflation - Will it lead Countries to Adopt Bitcoin? - page 4. (Read 732 times)