hypothetical solution of corruption in politics

MissNonFall9

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Quote from: figliar0 on September 27, 2021, 09:13:55 AM

Some time ago I was thinking about corrupted politicians in democratic countries and how to prevent this phenomenon. Things like big salary is to prevent corruption doesn't work, so why not to take all salary from them? In brief it should look like this...

Politicians and their families cannot have and manipulate with finance of any kind at all. After elections all their present property will be nationalized. During the political service all their life costs will be paid from public funds, so as the living, which will be taken after the service. They will be motivated to rule well to rule as long as possible, because absence of any finance will effectively prevent from hoarding resources for later. After the service they will get some minimal one-shot retirement - for example one-year average salary.

What do you think about this? Can it works?

The thinking is very good because if their properties are nationalized after the elections then the corrupt people will never want to come to the elections. It is very natural that the human race will naturally have an inexorable attraction towards money and nowadays only those who have a lot of money are willing to enter politics because they have to spend a lot of money in elections. It is understood that if it is possible to completely ban the use of money for campaigning as a pre-condition for elections, then it seems that corruption will be completely eradicated.

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Quote from: Imam Nuddin on October 14, 2021, 09:59:00 AM

I strongly agree with the opinion that corruptors should receive severe punishment. because with the culture of corruption very many parties are harmed. so it is very appropriate for a corruptor to be punished with the death penalty

I get your drift and also note your sentiment on the nature of punishment (though I don't believe in death penalty) as punitive measure. I think imprisonment of various sentencing should be enough deterrent to corruption. In societies where those culpable are sentenced to prison, there is the likelihood of citizens avoiding anything that will bring about corruption. China is a typical example of countries with zero tolerance for corruption and that's a major part of what has stabilized her economy, though it's the death penalty way. Once a corruptor is hanged or executed, s/he won't have the opportunity to right the wrong. But if sent to prison, they could turn a new leaf and win more thieves over to the path of good. That's my point.

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Quote from: Betwrong on October 14, 2021, 05:58:14 AM

You proposed a solution to the problem of corruption, and I'm trying to provide a more realistic one. I agree with that "if you are rich it is stupid to not use your wealth". But the thing is that many politicians are not rich(yet). They go into politics in hopes of becoming rich(mostly through bribes). And they will not stop taking bribes ever with that state of mind. It will never be enough money for them. That's why I think it's important to know the limit after which more money will not make you happier.

Yes, it started to be little OT. But i don't agree with your solution either - I don't think that it wll help to teach people that from some point wealth starts to be disgusting. You just draw a line (where?) and tell that everything above is disgusting (why?). Well, it doesn't have much sense at all - first question of every child will be - why?

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Quote from: dondonk on September 27, 2021, 11:39:54 AM

Corruption is indeed a disease that is detrimental, not only in an agency, it can even harm the whole country. Preventing by giving big paychecks probably won't work. It is human nature to always be greedy with wealth. The higher the salary, the more motivated they are for corruption. Maybe it would be more appropriate to punish him severely or the death penalty.

I strongly agree with the opinion that corruptors should receive severe punishment. because with the culture of corruption very many parties are harmed. so it is very appropriate for a corruptor to be punished with the death penalty

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Quote from: figliar0 on October 13, 2021, 08:24:20 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on October 13, 2021, 04:40:02 AM

~

Well, IMHO if you are rich it is stupid to not use your wealth. What is the purpose of it if not use it for whatever reason? Happiness isn't the only one and doing some research for something so individual as happiness is irelevant at all. You can use wealth for example for making life easier, more comfortable or just for aesthetical purpose.

Lets say I am very rich and have comfortable house which is a piece of architectonical art. I would like to go to holiday but I really hate hotels. Because of I can afford the same comfort as at home, I will simply buy a new house at my holiday destination. As years passed, I've collected a few houses all around the world.

You proposed a solution to the problem of corruption, and I'm trying to provide a more realistic one. I agree with that "if you are rich it is stupid to not use your wealth". But the thing is that many politicians are not rich(yet). They go into politics in hopes of becoming rich(mostly through bribes). And they will not stop taking bribes ever with that state of mind. It will never be enough money for them. That's why I think it's important to know the limit after which more money will not make you happier.

figliar0

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Quote from: Betwrong on October 13, 2021, 04:40:02 AM

Quote from: figliar0 on October 12, 2021, 01:17:00 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on October 11, 2021, 03:49:44 AM

Imo, the solution lays in teaching people through songs, books, movies, TV series that being wealthy is a good thing, but being overly rich, collecting airplanes, buying several houses worth millions USD each etc. is disgusting.

Disagree. Why is it disgusting? It is bad for other people when you steal money from them (generally), but if you earn lots of money and like the planes, why should it be disgusting to collect them?

I'm not saying "Eat the rich" and stuff like that. Far from it. Indeed, if you honestly earn a lot of money and want to live a luxury life, you have every right to do so. You can buy a private jet, you can buy the most expensive house in the world etc. ...

But collecting airplanes and buying several such houses? Idk, I think stupidity is disgusting.

And "Why is it stupidity?", you might ask. Well, we live in the age of the Internet, and it's stupid to not use it. If you want to feel happier, do your research first, and you'll find out that in most cases buying another airplane or very expensive house will not help with that. It can even decrease the feeling of well-being.

Well, IMHO if you are rich it is stupid to not use your wealth. What is the purpose of it if not use it for whatever reason? Happiness isn't the only one and doing some research for something so individual as happiness is irelevant at all. You can use wealth for example for making life easier, more comfortable or just for aesthetical purpose.

Lets say I am very rich and have comfortable house which is a piece of architectonical art. I would like to go to holiday but I really hate hotels. Because of I can afford the same comfort as at home, I will simply buy a new house at my holiday destination. As years passed, I've collected a few houses all around the world.

It is same as collecting whatever else. Someone is collecting cars, someone knives, some other tea ceramics or tatoos - every of them has its own reason for it and it doesn't have to be happiness at all.

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Quote from: figliar0 on October 12, 2021, 01:17:00 AM

Quote from: Betwrong on October 11, 2021, 03:49:44 AM

Imo, the solution lays in teaching people through songs, books, movies, TV series that being wealthy is a good thing, but being overly rich, collecting airplanes, buying several houses worth millions USD each etc. is disgusting.

Disagree. Why is it disgusting? It is bad for other people when you steal money from them (generally), but if you earn lots of money and like the planes, why should it be disgusting to collect them?
~

I'm not saying "Eat the rich" and stuff like that. Far from it. Indeed, if you honestly earn a lot of money and want to live a luxury life, you have every right to do so. You can buy a private jet, you can buy the most expensive house in the world etc. ...

But collecting airplanes and buying several such houses? Idk, I think stupidity is disgusting.

And "Why is it stupidity?", you might ask. Well, we live in the age of the Internet, and it's stupid to not use it. If you want to feel happier, do your research first, and you'll find out that in most cases buying another airplane or very expensive house will not help with that. It can even decrease the feeling of well-being.

figliar0

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Quote from: Betwrong on October 11, 2021, 03:49:44 AM

Imo, the solution lays in teaching people through songs, books, movies, TV series that being wealthy is a good thing, but being overly rich, collecting airplanes, buying several houses worth millions USD each etc. is disgusting.

Disagree. Why is it disgusting? It is bad for other people when you steal money from them (generally), but if you earn lots of money and like the planes, why should it be disgusting to collect them?

Quote from: Similificator on October 11, 2021, 10:20:55 AM

Although I can really sympathize with your sentiment, I disagree in some parts since some ideas mentioned may prove to be a bringer of more problems than solutions (no offense).

May I ask you to expand this a little bit more? Your thoughts may be a fine addition to whole topic.

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Although I can really sympathize with your sentiment, I disagree in some parts since some ideas mentioned may prove to be a bringer of more problems than solutions (no offense). Also, let us say that the good ideas are absorbed in the government system (in electing officials), there will always be a way for the corrupt and the influencial people that wants control over high positioned officials to have their way. This is because no single person is without a weakness that cannot be taken advantage of. Thus, the reason why even after all these years, the corrupt has never been erased on the most important positions in the human civilization.

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Quote from: figliar0 on September 27, 2021, 09:13:55 AM

Some time ago I was thinking about corrupted politicians in democratic countries and how to prevent this phenomenon. Things like big salary is to prevent corruption doesn't work, so why not to take all salary from them? In brief it should look like this...

Politicians and their families cannot have and manipulate with finance of any kind at all. After elections all their present property will be nationalized. During the political service all their life costs will be paid from public funds, so as the living, which will be taken after the service. They will be motivated to rule well to rule as long as possible, because absence of any finance will effectively prevent from hoarding resources for later. After the service they will get some minimal one-shot retirement - for example one-year average salary.

What do you think about this? Can it works?

I'm afraid such a scheme could lead to disaster, because dishonest people would find a way how to get around and continue to take bribes, plunder national treasuries etc. While honest people would stay away from politics completely, because normally they have families to care about, and getting all your present property "nationalized" is hardly good for your close ones.

Imo, the solution lays in teaching people through songs, books, movies, TV series that being wealthy is a good thing, but being overly rich, collecting airplanes, buying several houses worth millions USD each etc. is disgusting.

Piggymonster

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Quote from: figliar0 on October 08, 2021, 01:39:29 PM

Quote from: Piggymonster on October 08, 2021, 03:19:39 AM

Quote from: figliar0 on October 08, 2021, 01:41:40 AM

Quote from: Piggymonster on October 07, 2021, 12:08:00 PM

I imagine that will happen to my country, probably there will be no one to run for a public office. Most politicians run because of personal interest and political power they will hold.They even threaten or worst kill their opponent just to make sure they will win for elections. Politics is a very tricky and dirty business.

So why politicians and government at all? Why should someone led by personal interest rule? Isn't this simple violence?

That is the downside of a democracy, anyone can run for a public office as long as they are natural-born citizen, a registered voter, able to read and write and a resident of that country. It could lead to corruption for it is based on electoral competition. Furthermore, there is also a vote buying phenomenon, where the voter sells his or her vote to the highest bidder. Ordinary people are unaware of what is good for them, whoever can give them enough tangible rewards will be their candidate without even knowing the true intentions. Political violence.

Of course that I know that this is part of democracy. The meaning of my post was - why democracy at all? What will it brings to us except this violenent rule of people who cares just about themselves?

No one is born a good citizen, no nation is born a democracy. Rather, both are processes that continue to evolve over a lifetime qouted from Kofi Annan.
https://www.coe.int/en/web/compass/democracy
https://carnegieendowment.org/2019/01/16/is-democracy-problem-pub-78137
https://futureofworking.com/11-advantages-and-disadvantages-of-democracy/
I found this on google, I hope it can enlighten us a little bit.

Though Democratic form of government has many flaws and challenges, is far from perfect political system but for me, I am still in favor for it because democracy gives us the citizen the voice, the freedom and the power in government. The citizens must just vote wisely. This is how I understand your comment and this is my personal opinion. Wink

figliar0

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Quote from: Piggymonster on October 08, 2021, 03:19:39 AM

Quote from: figliar0 on October 08, 2021, 01:41:40 AM

Quote from: Piggymonster on October 07, 2021, 12:08:00 PM

I imagine that will happen to my country, probably there will be no one to run for a public office. Most politicians run because of personal interest and political power they will hold.They even threaten or worst kill their opponent just to make sure they will win for elections. Politics is a very tricky and dirty business.

So why politicians and government at all? Why should someone led by personal interest rule? Isn't this simple violence?

That is the downside of a democracy, anyone can run for a public office as long as they are natural-born citizen, a registered voter, able to read and write and a resident of that country. It could lead to corruption for it is based on electoral competition. Furthermore, there is also a vote buying phenomenon, where the voter sells his or her vote to the highest bidder. Ordinary people are unaware of what is good for them, whoever can give them enough tangible rewards will be their candidate without even knowing the true intentions. Political violence.

Of course that I know that this is part of democracy. The meaning of my post was - why democracy at all? What will it brings to us except this violenent rule of people who cares just about themselves?

Piggymonster

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Quote from: figliar0 on October 08, 2021, 01:41:40 AM

Quote from: Piggymonster on October 07, 2021, 12:08:00 PM

I imagine that will happen to my country, probably there will be no one to run for a public office. Most politicians run because of personal interest and political power they will hold.They even threaten or worst kill their opponent just to make sure they will win for elections. Politics is a very tricky and dirty business.

So why politicians and government at all? Why should someone led by personal interest rule? Isn't this simple violence?

That is the downside of a democracy, anyone can run for a public office as long as they are natural-born citizen, a registered voter, able to read and write and a resident of that country. It could lead to corruption for it is based on electoral competition. Furthermore, there is also a vote buying phenomenon, where the voter sells his or her vote to the highest bidder. Ordinary people are unaware of what is good for them, whoever can give them enough tangible rewards will be their candidate without even knowing the true intentions. Political violence.

figliar0

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Quote from: Piggymonster on October 07, 2021, 12:08:00 PM

I imagine that will happen to my country, probably there will be no one to run for a public office. Most politicians run because of personal interest and political power they will hold.They even threaten or worst kill their opponent just to make sure they will win for elections. Politics is a very tricky and dirty business.

So why politicians and government at all? Why should someone led by personal interest rule? Isn't this simple violence?

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Quote from: dondonk on September 27, 2021, 11:39:54 AM

Corruption is indeed a disease that is detrimental, not only in an agency, it can even harm the whole country. Preventing by giving big paychecks probably won't work. It is human nature to always be greedy with wealth. The higher the salary, the more motivated they are for corruption. Maybe it would be more appropriate to punish him severely or the death penalty.

Corruption is everywhere and we shouldn't be surprised by what we are seeing all around our society because we can't stop it not even care to beat it. Thanks to God for the liberty we have to agitate on it without being forcefully criticized. If you think your hypothesis and theory could reduce and bomb corruption then continue. Continuing doing what give you joy cause when your joy shouldn't be same with mine.

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Quote from: figliar0 on September 27, 2021, 09:13:55 AM

Some time ago I was thinking about corrupted politicians in democratic countries and how to prevent this phenomenon. Things like big salary is to prevent corruption doesn't work, so why not to take all salary from them? In brief it should look like this...

Politicians and their families cannot have and manipulate with finance of any kind at all. After elections all their present property will be nationalized. During the political service all their life costs will be paid from public funds, so as the living, which will be taken after the service. They will be motivated to rule well to rule as long as possible, because absence of any finance will effectively prevent from hoarding resources for later. After the service they will get some minimal one-shot retirement - for example one-year average salary.

What do you think about this? Can it works?

I imagine that will happen to my country, probably there will be no one to run for a public office. Most politicians run because of personal interest and political power they will hold.They even threaten or worst kill their opponent just to make sure they will win for elections. Politics is a very tricky and dirty business.

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Politics as well as corruption differs country wise. The kind of corruption in one democratic country is different from others.
Your hypothetical proposal sounds great, but who will implement it in a country where there is synergistic corruption?
Do you expect a politician to be on seat and implement what will not favour him?
In your country, is there a certain time that there is no president and the masses makes decisions? No! There is always a government or an interim government who is unwilling to implement things to his disadvantage.
Maybe you will reserve your proposal till countries are being managed with blockchain. Grin

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If the whole country is ownd by a single company, two people, the solution can not be found fighting corruption
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/who-owns-australia-5363758

Topic: hypothetical solution of corruption in politics (Read 361 times)