Topic: I am a certified Anti-Money Laundering agent. (AMLCA) (Read 9930 times)

Where do you get that delusion?

since the government works for us, we'll let you know if we want any regulations re: money laundering.

k, thanks.

Could you please elaborate?  I'm a noob and unaware of any anonymous method - other than p2p - which can convert bitcoins to cash and vice versa.  What "automatic website" or combination of methods can take my cash and send me bitcoins at a low commission?  And then when I sell back to them how do they get the cash to me anonymously?

lorax, don't think of P2P currencies as a gold. Use gold for shit you want to hide. Use P2P currencies when you don't want to hide and hate your credit card.

They can be better than a credit card. But for the moment Bitcoin and Litecoin are not acceptable to me because they have a diabolical design:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-the-digital-kill-switch-160612

I've watched bitcoin from a distance for awhile and this was always my main concern.  If you know how the banking industry controls our government, you know they will eventually cut off the legal links between bitcoin and dollars.  It was bound to happen and this is the first step.  Basically unless you can exchange bitcoins for dollars WITHOUT giving your identification - then it is not a viable long term solution.  

BUT.... having studied financial privacy for decades, there perhaps are viable permanent solutions to exchange bitcoins for dollars without ID.  

For one, it could be done through local individual networks - much like the drug market.  This would incur risk and fees, but it would be viable.  Decades ago, when some countries regulated the exchange rate, you'd very often see "black market" money changers provide this service in large numbers and relatively efficiently in those countries.

Secondly, and more hopefully, there are still a few countries free of the international bank cartel's domination.  Places like Liechtestein, Andorra, and to a degree China.  Exchanges based in those countries could perhaps resist outside pressure of requiring or at least disclosing ID.  Perhaps if exchanges were set up in those jurisdictions, then dollars going into our out of that country would basically be entering a black hole as far as the US / EU can tell.    Yes, in the case of small tax haven countries, these transfers back to a US bank would subject you to scrutiny from tax authorities, but in the case of a country like China, there could be legitimate business reasons for large transfers.  China is now too big to get pushed around by the US.  It would be much the same as the way the US thumbs its nose at African countries which futilely complain as their wealth is pilfered and laundered through US banks.  Yes, the US authorities would be upset to see large sums popping into your US bank account from behind the Chinese wall - but the US couldn't prove the source and there would be countless legitimate possibilities.   I'm not really an expert though in the ever changing field of international banking regulations.

Well, altogether I'm still unsure of the future of bitcoin but it does seem to have one and perhaps only one true advantage over precious metal - it can be carried unobtrusively on your person.  

I don't see it as a game of cat&mouse. I see it as the govt is giving you rope to hang yourself with.

The govt is tracking everything you do over the internet, and 10 years from now they can come knocking and say "where is your paper trail for the these transactions we know you did".

The global economy is going to utterly collapse into MADMAX.

Billions unemployed means millions hired to do tax collection and audits.

Bitcoin is not anonymous there is a permanent record on the internet forever.

Use physical gold and silver if you want anonymity. Otherwise keep a paper trail for everything in your safe...

Why not buy Litecoin, they are still much cheaper?

Buy low, sell high.

Are you sure you know what you are talking about?

You are saying that he incurs no liability if he can avoid compliance radars?

I read the FinCEN statement and I read it as saying each individual is a money transmitter and is responsible for filing.

With the shit coming with global economic collapse and rabid tax authorities in near future, I would not try to skirt the edge of the literal statements.

1. Can he remain anonymous?

2. Does a USA citizen abroad have to comply when dealing with non-USA affiliated exchanged in foreign currencies?

3. Is law retroactive?

Interesting. Best of luck getting things under control!

is arbitration between bitcoin exchanges considered "money transmission"

PM sent

Btcinvestor - I may have missed it, but do you have an opinion on how these regulations would affect people listed on sites like localbitcoins.com?

The government, then, is effectively ensuring all "ideals" of Bitcoin come through. Decentralization will flourish, because once you're "big," you're in their crosshairs. Regulating demanded business (especially when it affects consumers) to the point of effective de-legalization isn't going to create a couple giants, but push market-share to p2p and otherwise-decentralized (and non-compliant) solutions. Government can either back down and at least ensure they collect tax revenues from entities like Dwolla, or kill those companies giving into fear of government by boosting consumer appeal of organizations with no single point of failure. By encouraging a downward trend of compliance, they destabilize the entire country (with regards to subject/ruler relationship). - And remember, the American Revolution encouraged many others' subjects to follow suit.

Given management is on a failed path, a "National Union" might later be a solid bet against open rebellion. Timid enough for the government to reluctantly go along with, but bold enough to keep the citizens complacent. If government covertly controlled it...  they could just transfer the title of "United States" over to them. 

The hackers and whistleblower groups like wikileaks must really be getting to these "regulators" XDDDD

Well I guess cybercrime just got a little more annoying for the average skiddie XDDDD

It's funny because like half the point of bitcoin is to launder money while earning some interest. You can't make us pay taxes on something that isn't a government issued currency, because at it's very core it isn't money.

If you want me to pay taxes on bitcoins, I will send you the owed amount in bitcoins, not dollars. However, if the government accepts bitcoins as a tax payment then they are outright violating several laws and world goes ballistic.

There will always be ways to turn bitcoins into cash anonymously, and in large amounts. I could care less about whatever laws you pass, there are anonymous debit cards everywhere. I don't even need to mention the secondary p2p market for btc to cash because there are so many loopholes for turning it into cash through automatic websites and such.

Any exchange in an OECD country should be enforcing KYC by now or they are probably breaking pre existing laws. Some regulators are slow to put out specific rules and could attack existing exchanges for breaking the law once they discover bitcoin and have made up their mind about it.

Now FinCEN has thought about it, the other OECD countries are not far behind issuing "guidances".

I read somewhere that BitPay think's there is an exception for them as they are a payment processor. Since they do exchange I think that is wishful thinking. Mind you it won't be hard for them to implement, though they may have to restrict the countries they support.

Having been part of Financial Crypto 1.0 back in the 90's I know that most American's (in particular us libertarians) think non US jurisdictions magically don't care about KYC. Unfortunately most mid economy countries and offshore jurisdictions have been successfully bullied by the OECD FATF since the 90s to implement considerably stricter KYC rules than we have here.

I've heard people think you can just go open a bitcoin exchange in Panama or the Cayman Islands to solve the problem. The financial services commission in the respective jurisdiction would first of all not give you a license unless you implement ridiculous KYC as they don't want to risk their banking connections to the US. Panama was cut off from the SWIFT network for half a year back in the 90's for just this reason.

Sorry for the rant.

Anyway I've posted my analysis of the FinCEN guidelines here that I think provide a pretty good background.

http://payglo.be/2013/03/22/what-the-fincen-bitcoin-guidelines-actually-say/

My post was a little bit extreme. I'm in Canada and US legislation is affecting us + lots of the fiat going into Bitcoin is coming from the US.

I have an account with Virtex and they are already enforcing KYC like MtGox.

I agree 100% with you here. However US (Persons) performing bitcoin businesses interacting with the US banking system are at a very high risk and will unfortunately need to comply or eventually face jail time.

I see there as being 2 classes of bitcoin merchant processors/wallets/exchanges:

• High KYC countries - eg US and EU
• No KYC countries - where governments can't enforce KYC requirements

What is great about bitcoin is that the US can't stop people using Bitcoin in Nigeria like they can in the regular banking system. But they can stop any company dealing with the US banking system of dealing directly with Nigerian clients.

New Idea:  How can it be attacked?

Print little tickets like the scratch off lottery tickets that some states sell.
The scratch off goo covers the private bitcoin key.  The pay-to address is visible, both human readable and QR code, like the paper wallet.
At checkout, the Walmart cashier activates the card with the amount of cash desired.

One weak point I can see is that someone at the printing company can acquire the private key.