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Topic: I am a lawyer, and I'm new here (Read 3908 times)

full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
May 26, 2013, 12:40:32 PM
#51
One of the problems plaguing bitcoin right now is the time it takes to get coins. Bank transfers can take 4-5 business days which, taking into account the weekends, could be over a week before you are able to purchase BTC.

Many people are reluctant to accept a faster form of payment like PayPal, credit cards, etc. because the transactions are reversible and you can't get the BTC back.

What would you think of an exchange that sold a digital object of value such as an ebook or music, then included a free amount of BTC? Since BTC are essentially "play money" and of no legal value, their inclusion would not be part of the transaction, just a freebie from the seller of the digital product.

This would mean people who paid with PayPal, etc. couldn't reverse the charge once they'd received the digital product.

Any legal issues?

Bitcoin is not play money.  It is, at minimum, valuable virtual currency.  Moreover, the law, as to financial transactions, follows function, not form.  Financial transactions, by their nature, can be structured in creative, complex ways to avoid the letter of the law.  Courts have always looked to the function of those transactions, not the structure, to determine how they ought to be regulated.  Thus, an exchange that sought to circumvent money transmitter regulations in that way would probably just be treated as if they hadn't.

tl;dr: Obvious evasion is obvious.
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
May 26, 2013, 12:36:13 PM
#50
Great to have you aboard!
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
May 26, 2013, 12:35:10 PM
#49
Welcome!

Presuming you have a good working knowledge of Bitcoin, can you give us your take on where you see US Law going in terms of attempting to regulate it or outright outlaw using bitcoin?

Thanks.

Sure.

Bitcoin and other forms of virtual currency are already regulated on the federal level.  The states are typically slower to respond to these kinds of issues.  No state, as far as I know, has given any  regulatory guidance, let alone passed any new amendments directly addressing virtual currency.  Some states, like California, have very broad money transmitter regulations that already include virtual currency.  Some States, like New York, have laws on the books that are too vague to tell whether they apply to virtual currency.

As to the future: Bitcoin will not be "outlawed" at the federal level.  I don't see any evidence of that whatsoever.  To the contrary, I see the federal regulators giving very explicit guidance about how they intend to enforce the existing laws to include virtual currency.  It will be regulated.  The state level will, by definition, be inconsistent.  It's not out of the question that some states will refuse to grant money transmitter licenses to bitcoin businesses.  The nature of state sovereignty permits them to do so.  But is it likely? No.  I believe that the states will eventually follow the federal trailblazers at FinCEN and adopt similar regulations.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
May 26, 2013, 04:32:55 AM
#48
Hello everybody.  I'm an attorney that works with start-ups and the finance industry.  I tackle formation issues, together with intellectual property and commercial matters.  I'd just like to introduce myself.

I've lurked here for a bit and read a lot of people asking for a referral for a lawyer who is an expert in US bitcoin law.  I'm sorry to say that there aren't any.  In fact, there's really no such thing as bitcoin law, in the traditional sense.  There are a few rules and some guidance given by FinCen, but almost nothing from state authorities and even fewer actual, live cases.

There are plenty of attorneys who specialize in financial services regulation, but those of us who are interested in bitcoin know what we don't know - "known unknowns" as one of our leaders once put it.  

I hope that I can help around here!  I can't really give legal advice on the boards because I'm working with limited information.  Nonetheless, I will provide general information as best as I can.



Welcome!

Presuming you have a good working knowledge of Bitcoin, can you give us your take on where you see US Law going in terms of attempting to regulate it or outright outlaw using bitcoin?

Thanks.
newbie
Activity: 5
Merit: 0
May 26, 2013, 04:26:45 AM
#47
Welcome to the community, lots of opportunity for business/clients within the Bitcoin world
newbie
Activity: 10
Merit: 0
May 26, 2013, 04:17:21 AM
#46
Thank you for the warm welcome! Thanks for your PMs, as well. There are a lot of people out there with real-deal bitcoin matters and I'm happy to be of assistance however I can.

One of the problems plaguing bitcoin right now is the time it takes to get coins. Bank transfers can take 4-5 business days which, taking into account the weekends, could be over a week before you are able to purchase BTC.

Many people are reluctant to accept a faster form of payment like PayPal, credit cards, etc. because the transactions are reversible and you can't get the BTC back.

What would you think of an exchange that sold a digital object of value such as an ebook or music, then included a free amount of BTC? Since BTC are essentially "play money" and of no legal value, their inclusion would not be part of the transaction, just a freebie from the seller of the digital product.

This would mean people who paid with PayPal, etc. couldn't reverse the charge once they'd received the digital product.

Any legal issues?
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 2
May 17, 2013, 05:18:39 AM
#45
welcome U
newbie
Activity: 56
Merit: 0
May 17, 2013, 03:44:45 AM
#44
It's the wild west right now - we're going to need people like you!

yeah the people who can teach us  a commercial law and fights againts scammer
newbie
Activity: 16
Merit: 0
May 17, 2013, 03:23:30 AM
#43
It's the wild west right now - we're going to need people like you!
newbie
Activity: 4
Merit: 0
May 17, 2013, 02:57:46 AM
#42
Welcome Smiley
member
Activity: 111
Merit: 10
“Everyone Is A Bank”
May 17, 2013, 01:56:38 AM
#41
Welcome to the forum, good luck and have fun here  Wink
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
May 16, 2013, 11:41:11 PM
#40
Welcome, And remember to tell them, "Things Can Take a Long Time"   Smiley

That is probably the most important bit of legal advice I could ever give.
sr. member
Activity: 333
Merit: 250
Ants Rock
May 16, 2013, 09:28:05 PM
#39
Welcome, And remember to tell them, "Things Can Take a Long Time"   Smiley
newbie
Activity: 11
Merit: 0
May 16, 2013, 09:11:05 PM
#38
Welcome to the forum and the world of Bitcoin!  Smiley
newbie
Activity: 2
Merit: 0
May 16, 2013, 08:47:59 PM
#37
Welcome to the forums!
pwi
member
Activity: 118
Merit: 10
May 16, 2013, 08:46:52 PM
#36
Welcome. I look forward to reading your posts on subjects that are important to us all.  Thanks in advance for any value added to the discussion.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
May 16, 2013, 08:31:29 PM
#35
There is another lawyer on here.  He calls himself a "monetary scientist" and he is taking Bitcoin donations to protect the human race from asteroids, black holes, and even alien invasions.  He is speaking at Bitcoin2013.  He must be getting desperate because I received reports he is adding people to the web site that don't know anything about the project.

https://lifeboat.com/ex/bitcoins

I figure the $80K is going to go towards a special set of Magic: The Gathering cards with special powers.

$80k in MTG cards? This guy has it figured out.
newbie
Activity: 23
Merit: 0
May 16, 2013, 07:30:27 AM
#34
hello
newbie
Activity: 7
Merit: 0
May 16, 2013, 06:20:41 AM
#33
Welcome to the forums
newbie
Activity: 10
Merit: 0
May 16, 2013, 04:38:56 AM
#32
The only difference between Bitcoins and Swagbucks or any other Ticket/Credit system is that Bitcoins are POPULAR. When things get popular then greedy folks want to put their hands in and control it. Bitcoins = Barter and as of right now that is legal. If Bitcoins were outlawed then you could just write a ".01" on a piece of paper and hand it to the person.

+1

Yes, this. I think too many people are getting wrapped around the popularity of bitcoin and suddenly thinking it's something more than a virtual currency--with emphasis on virtual.
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