Topic: I am lost in bitcoin wallet and private key - page 2. (Read 3831 times)

You are absolutely right.
That being said, I am happy to see someone trying to understand how bitcoin works.

I think you're trying to read too much into the workings of Bitcoin and confusing yourself.  It's good to have an understanding of the protocol and how it works, but the process is quite simple once you actually just start using it, and whilst it was created by a genius, you certainly don't need to be one to use it  .

As I mentioned in an earlier reply, whoever gets the private key, he/she can spend it.

Indeed the bitcoin is not in your wallet even if you see a positive balance on your wallet software.
That's why you just need to backup your wallet file (a collection of private keys) and all your funds sent to the address after the backup can still be restored later.

Say, if there is some bitcoin on an address, anyone having the private key associated with that address can create and sign a transaction to spend the bitcoin.
Of course, the chance of 2 people having the same address is ridiculously low, so it is not really a problem (unless you are using a bad random number generator).

Wow, your answers guys now explained a lot for me. I read that piece on that website the very first day I started searching about bitcoin but I didn't understand a thing from it at the time. Really thank you very much.

However that leave a question in my mind: if it just happened that 2 people got the same address. someone sent money to that address, who will get it? will it be figured out by miners and corrected? or what?

Example: Bill Gates and me got the same wallet address, some company paid Bill Gates Bitcoins worth 10 billions, who will get the coins, me or Bill Gates?

Such "machine" does not exist. It is theoretically possible that different people can generate the private keys corresponding to the same address. But, the probability of that is very very very small.


https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses#Generating_tons_of_addresses

There is no 'mother unit machine'; it's a decentralised network.

ok, now I did read at many different places that this random generation of the address from the private key is very very hard to be figured by anyone.
what I read is: the address can be generated from the private key, however the opposite is invalid, and I understand that too, but if this is true then the private key should always generate a different address based on this theory.
Cause if the private key will always generate the same address, and this is made by a machine (I mean coding), which means the machine will generate the address in a math way from the private key. Then after looking at so many private keys and addresses then someone eventually will be able to predict the private key from the address.

Unless the machine will randomly chose an address for the private key (not based on math) like for example a human will just brain pick a random address for his key, but in this case there is a big risk of generating the same address for 2 wallets. Kind of we all have different email address but some of us might have the same password (cause this is something we just brain make).

I do understand I read everywhere that this is impossible but I am just guessing based on some simple math.

And to avoid any 2 people from having the same address, then all the bitcoin wallet website should run off the same machine (which in case I believe is the bitcoin open source or mother unit or whatever) to prevent the double address from happening.

All in all, if the private key generate the address based on math (regardless how complicated) eventually someone will figure out a way to generate the private key from the address. UNLESS Like I said if the private key generates the address completely random then there is the chance to generate the same address twice or more in which if all wallet websites run of the same machine, then the address will be checked (to make sure it is not doubled) and then the key will keep trying randomly until it generate a unique address, however in the later case there is the theory of the key will always generate a different address.

Now that you said the key is link to that address forever, then it will bring me to the only option left:
1- when you create a wallet, the machine will create a completely random private key that is never used before, and that by checking the bitcoin mother unit that is used by every single wallet website to make sure it is not doubled.
2- then the machine will also randomly pick an address for the wallet that is never used before (same thing above by checking the mother coding unit for bitcoin or whatever it is that is used by every wallet website)
3- the machine will link those (the address and private key) together forever.
and that can explain why if you always have the private key then you always have the address with it on the same paper or file and can always be both recovered (balance and address).

But one question will be left, if the wallet.dat file will only have the private key, and then private key will generate the address AGAIN, then it means it is based on math.Otherwise the private key will generate a new unique address (never used by anyone BUT new address, NOT same address).

IF the answer is still that wallet.dat file will carry ONLY private key and that when you export the key into a wallet then it will ALWAYS generate the SAME address, then the way for that is: the private key and the address are both LINKED on the bitcoin MOTHER UNIT MACHINE, which means if it is ever hacked then all the 12 million coins will be gone!


 I understand the guy who came up with all this is very smart, but I am just an idiot who is trying to understand a little so please be patient with me.

 

Exactly.
Whenever you have the private keys, you can get back your addresses, and the bitcoin on the addresses.
If you lose your private keys, you lose your bitcoin forever.
If someone obtains your private keys, he/she can spend it right away.

yes, the private key corresponds to the address.  They are forever linked. 

Thank you very much for the answer, however will I recover the address too even if I take the private key to another host (a different wallet website then the original one)?

If you have the private key, it restores the balance and the address. 

If you do not have the private key, there is no way for you to recover either, unless you randomly generate the same address again, which is like hitting the powerball ten thousands times in a row.

guys, you are taking the the discussion away from the original topic, which is alright, but I still need help answering the question.

when you lose your wallet, does your private key recover 1- balance only?  or 2- both balance and wallet address?

I am trying to find out what happens to the address of the lost wallet.

Make sure you encrypt the Backup of your wallet.dat file.

(I use 7zip for that)

Use another like Electrum instead.

Thanks for that Info.

I´ll stick to orginal QT-Wallet, needs lot of time for sync but better safe than sorry!

DO NOT USE MULTIBIT UNTIL THE DEV FIXES A KNOWN BUG IN THE NEW UPDATE....


Occasionally, multibit creates a new change address when you send bitcoins...not a big deal, right?

WRONG, because multibit occasionally for some reason, DOES NOT LET YOU EXPORT THE PRIVATE KEY TO THE NEW CHANGE ADDRESS.  IT ALSO DOESNT SAVE IT FOR SOME REASON.  SO YOU CAN SEE YOUR BALANCE, BUT CANNOT SEND IT, OR EXPORT THE PRIV KEY AND IMPORT IT ANYWHERE.

I LOST ABOUT .5 BTC, AND THE DEV JUST IGNORED ME.  HAD MULTIPLE PEOPLE LOOK AT THIS.....ITS TRUE.

I promise, I do understand that, I got that part.

I will give another example to explain my question better, please follow the example before answering:
1- Let's say I created an online wallet with "blockchain.info" and I have a balance of 10 coins, my wallet ID (or address) was : ABCDE
2- I got a paper wallet that has my private key or the QR or whatever I need to back up my 10 coins or I have a wallet.dat back up or whatever.
3- for some reasons, "blockchain.info" domain is gone, God bless (let's say the owner died) and he didn't renew his domain, or his host company filed bankruptcy and they lost all the domains before moving them or or or, anyway the domain is gone and with it the website is gone and with it all the online wallets are gone!!!, just an example please bear with me.
4- then I decided to go to coinbase.com and open a new wallet there, I got the new wallet and the new address is : JKJKJK
5- Now I decided to import my private key that was one wallet.dat that I previously backed from blockchain.info before they go down
6- when I import the private key (that I got from blockchain.info before they go down) into the new wallet on basecoin.com will it: a- deposit 10 coins into the new wallet on basecoin.com WITH THE NEW ADDRESS OF: JKJKJK ?  or b- recover the whole old new wallet with the address : ABCDE  and deposit 10 coins in it???


Again, simply the question is: will the private key recover : a- balance only? or  b- balance and address both?

Your private keys are in the wallet. You need your password or you won't be able to access the wallet.

You need the private key or you wont be able to access the wallet. The wallet dat file should back up the balance at the same time loading

I do understand that, the question is:

let's say I opened an account with "John company" my original wallet
address was: 12345
private key  : ABCDE
bitcoin balance is: 10 coins

now I lost the wallet with address: 12345
but I still have the private key that is: ABCDE


I moved to a different company "Sam corp" and made a new account.
I uploaded "imported" my private key "ABCDE" to the account.
I do understand I will get back the balance: 10 coins
Now the questions is: the wallet address on "Sam corp" will it also be: 12345 ?? or I will get a new wallet address "98765" with new private Key "GHIJK" only thing it will have the original balance "10 Coins" ??
and the old private key "ABCDE" will be not needed anymore?



In other words, will the private key help recover the balance only? or both the wallet address and the balance?