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Topic: I am terrified that SHA256 or ECC will be cracked and btc will become worthless - page 2. (Read 2869 times)

legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
Firstly sha256 is not an encryption algorithm, its a hash.

Bitcoin mining is done with sha256d (sha256(sha256(data))). There is no reason to believe that quantum computers are more efficient at calculting sha256d than ASICs. Lets just assume they are 100 times better anyway. What would happen? We would have a difficulty increase. For a short time blocks would be found quicker, afterwards everything would be back to normal. This is even true should QC be 2128 times faster, but it might still be a good idea to jump to a different hash function if the difficulty becomes to high to grow further. In this case it would require new specialized hardware. I dont think we will ever go back to GPUs.
-snip-
It seems to me like every 2-3 months someone comes up with this topic; it's starting to look suspicious if you ask me. I'm not even sure why the forum allows this because technically they are duplicates and there are many of these "quantum is dangerous, and I'm scary threads". It is becoming tiring saying the same thing over and over again.

There most certainly is.
Not before either: 1) You die; 2) Bitcoin becomes obsolete.


I think you misunderstand. When I say 'cracked' I do NOT mean computers brute forcing their way through like you describe. I mean some maths genius comes up with a shortcut so my home pc could get a private key from a public key.
This doesn't happen overnight or else nobody would even consider using any of these algorithms. The chances of a meteor wiping everyone out are probably higher than the chances of a "genius" destroying SHA256 in the next 50 years. Should you be scared and panic? No. Focus on what is important, not on what might be.


Update:
-snip-
I didn't really mean forbid in general; there are threads about quantum related things that are only a few months ago and one could easily just ask their questions there and the discussion would become active again. However, I do understand your point as well and I do agree with you. I didn't want to write an additional post since this might be a bit off-topic to the actual thread so hopefully you will notice the update.
copper member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1528
No I dont escrow anymore.
There is no reason to believe that quantum computers are more efficient at calculting sha256d than ASICs

There most certainly is.

Name one.

Anyway, you missed the point of this thread - it is that computer's will becoming fast enough to crack the encryption that underlies the entire protocol - not anything to do with mining. And because these encryption keys will be cracked and the solution is a QRNG.

No, a difference source for random numbers is not the solution to a good algorithm that can caluclate the private key from a public key. If you have a good source of entropy and generate a private key with it,but I am able to find any private key given the public key. How is that going to help you?
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1003
𝓗𝓞𝓓𝓛
It would take a long time. And in that time when someone trying to crack it, Bitcoin would be more secure.
So yeah, you are being paranoid.
legendary
Activity: 938
Merit: 1000
BTC | LTC | XLM | VEN | ARDR
If sha256 gets cracked, the switch to sha512 is easily made, yet sha2 hasnt even been broken yet, so we're safe for a while Smiley
legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 4418
Crypto Swap Exchange
There is no reason to believe that quantum computers are more efficient at calculting sha256d than ASICs

There most certainly is.

Anyway, you missed the point of this thread - it is that computer's will becoming fast enough to crack the encryption that underlies the entire protocol - not anything to do with mining. And because these encryption keys will be cracked and the solution is a QRNG.

I don't think he did miss the point. Although SHA 256 isn't technically anything to do with encryption as it's a hash, if it was 'broken' it could still be a bad thing- there could be billions of valid blocks produced per second. How would the system cope with that?
Remember, Bitcoin adjusts difficulty every 2016 blocks. The faster it is, the higher the difficulty will be. Bitcoin is not about breaking the encryption, it is about finding a hash that is lower than or equal to the target. If they do crack SHA256, the difficulty would increase proportionately. Theres some other more relevant concerns about SHA256 having collsions too. However, we are still far away from that. Before it gets broken, we are likely to be on another algorithm already.
full member
Activity: 146
Merit: 100
There is no reason to believe that quantum computers are more efficient at calculting sha256d than ASICs

There most certainly is.

Anyway, you missed the point of this thread - it is that computer's will becoming fast enough to crack the encryption that underlies the entire protocol - not anything to do with mining. And because these encryption keys will be cracked and the solution is a QRNG.

I don't think he did miss the point. Although SHA 256 isn't technically anything to do with encryption as it's a hash, if it was 'broken' it could still be a bad thing- there could be billions of valid blocks produced per second. How would the system cope with that?
full member
Activity: 146
Merit: 100
Am I being paranoid?

All of the sun's electricity is not enough to power all the computers it would take to crack a single priv key before it runs out in billions of year.

So yes, absolutely and completely Paranoid. If some Omg super mega computer that was able to work at the speed of of a galaxy full of computer would appear, well our world would end, but if it did not, BTC would still be fine, the network would switch to a new ALGO, it would probably lose some value from the scare but whatever.

I think you misunderstand. When I say 'cracked' I do NOT mean computers brute forcing their way through like you describe. I mean some maths genius comes up with a shortcut so my home pc could get a private key from a public key.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
There is no reason to believe that quantum computers are more efficient at calculting sha256d than ASICs

There most certainly is.

Anyway, you missed the point of this thread - it is that computer's will becoming fast enough to crack the encryption that underlies the entire protocol - not anything to do with mining. And because these encryption keys will be cracked and the solution is a QRNG.
copper member
Activity: 1498
Merit: 1528
No I dont escrow anymore.
Changing algorithm, yep why not. But how about the mining industry ? All those ASIC becoming useless... GPU again ?

Firstly sha256 is not an encryption algorithm, its a hash.

Bitcoin mining is done with sha256d (sha256(sha256(data))). There is no reason to believe that quantum computers are more efficient at calculting sha256d than ASICs. Lets just assume they are 100 times better anyway. What would happen? We would have a difficulty increase. For a short time blocks would be found quicker, afterwards everything would be back to normal. This is even true should QC be 2128 times faster, but it might still be a good idea to jump to a different hash function if the difficulty becomes to high to grow further. In this case it would require new specialized hardware. I dont think we will ever go back to GPUs.

This is a serious problem for bitcoin. The solution is to use a Quantum Random Number Generator instead on the non-deterministic algorithms that can only create pseudo-random numbers.

Nope.
sr. member
Activity: 476
Merit: 250
This is a serious problem for bitcoin. The solution is to use a Quantum Random Number Generator instead on the non-deterministic algorithms that can only create pseudo-random numbers.
full member
Activity: 193
Merit: 100
Changing algorithm, yep why not. But how about the mining industry ? All those ASIC becoming useless... GPU again ?
legendary
Activity: 2282
Merit: 1023
With growing computing power this may be possible in not very near future. I think I read somewhere that even so bitcoin can be upgraded to even stronger encryption (SHA512?).
newbie
Activity: 28
Merit: 0
Obviously a question Snowden could answer
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1074
I am not too worried about that... If Bitcoin goes down with this, most banks / credit cards and secure sites on the internet will go down too.. and if they go down, nobody can only point a finger at us.

There are other options / stronger algoriths, but they have their own advantages and disadvantages.... eg. Speed. The nice thing about technology is it's adaptability ... A lot of resources will be thrown at a

solution, if plan A fails.  Wink .... Do not lose too much sleep over this.  Grin
legendary
Activity: 1302
Merit: 1068
Am I being paranoid?

All of the sun's electricity is not enough to power all the computers it would take to crack a single priv key before it runs out in billions of year.

So yes, absolutely and completely Paranoid. If some Omg super mega computer that was able to work at the speed of of a galaxy full of computer would appear, well our world would end, but if it did not, BTC would still be fine, the network would switch to a new ALGO, it would probably lose some value from the scare but whatever.
legendary
Activity: 3038
Merit: 4418
Crypto Swap Exchange
There is currently no huge weaknesses in SHA256, collision etc. I don't think it would be cracked in the near future either, Bitcoin can very easily change it's algorithm. ECDSA can be cracked with quantum computing however, but that is still quite sometime away and it would only be a threat if there is address reuse, public keys should take weeks to crack to get the private key.
legendary
Activity: 1344
Merit: 1000
Yeah but the problem is of course if governments with their endless money and power can create Quantum Super computers before anybody else and just decide to wipe out BTC for good before the cat and mouse game can even start..

if anyone cracks SHA256 ill be the first to do it   Smiley
newbie
Activity: 41
Merit: 0
Yeah but the problem is of course if governments with their endless money and power can create Quantum Super computers before anybody else and just decide to wipe out BTC for good before the cat and mouse game can even start..
hero member
Activity: 798
Merit: 1000
Move On !!!!!!
Yes, also banks are using the sha-256 bit encryption ... so I think if it will be broken they will attack for first the banks and not Bitcoin Smiley.

I read many articles that if quantum computers will be available they will break any bank system any encrypted files etc, so it will be bitcoin too.


Bitcoin will be the last of the sha-256 'break', why attack btc when you can steal all the money in the various bank accounts ?

Lol you are right, but this is when the new quantum computers will be in the market, but of course this can be used to protect banks and other companies that contains high sensitive information.

Banks will update algorithms if necessary, Bitcoin will update algorithms if necessary, everybody will update everything if necessary. Technology is improving and it's normal that systems are being improved as well.

I see no biggie here and OP you can completely stop worrying!
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
I read many articles that if quantum computers will be available they will break any bank system any encrypted files etc, so it will be bitcoin too.
By that time (even if it was possible in a small amount of time) nobody would be using SHA256. Technically that article is completely wrong.
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