I believe the dumps are over | Bitcointalksearch.org

fabiorem

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 11, 2018, 11:15:33 AM

Well, what they gain is rather obvious, and it's 2 possible scenarios:

1) The hostile one: They think that this will help killing Bitcoin. While it does not stop the Bitcoin network from working, if the price is lower, the hashrate is lower, therefore the network is weakened. We need a strong price, having a low Bitcoin price is not good. It will still be alive, but it's not ideal. These dumps make a lot of people think that Bitcoin is a joke as a store of value, this could be their goal.

2) The long term one: They crash the price to buy in cheaper. Governments have understood that they can never kill Bitcoin, so they want to get in a relevant position, which means entering in cheaper than 20k, as cheap as possible actually, before we go to 100k++ per coin in the next decade. They want to get in cheap, that's all.

I think the second one is much more likely to happen. If governments multiply their treasures through a 1000% increase, they can pay their debts to international banks, which will in turn move the economy higher, allowing them to draw more taxes from production, which in turn enrich the State even more.

That's the more rational way, but the nature of the State is based on the primitive urge for agression and domination, so we will never know if it can be applied or not.

BillyBobZorton

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Quote from: pooya87 on March 10, 2018, 11:05:49 PM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 10, 2018, 12:16:55 PM

Quote from: pooya87 on March 09, 2018, 11:44:27 PM

i am still not convinced about this news saying this single person crashed the market because a lot of things don't make sense to me.

first of all his purpose was not to crash the market because he did not benefit from any kind of crash.
think about it, the news tells us he was selling to have money to pay others.... in other words he didn't want the price to drop so he can buy more bitcoin, he wanted the price to go up and stay up so he could get more money out. someone with this motivation doesn't crash the market and will do everything in his power to prevent that as a matter of fact.

secondly, i say unless he was selling on all exchanges he couldn't have caused any kind of crash whatsoever because simply put if you dump on one exchange price may go down there but it won't follow on all exchanges. and as i explained above you don't just go around and fuck the market up to cause yourself a lot of loss.

third, the news also told us he started selling months ago. and if i am not mistaken when i checked the date versus the price, bitcoin price was around $4000 when the news said he started selling. this means price was $4000 he sold, it went to $5000 then $6000 and so on and he was selling, it went above $10000 he was selling, it went to $20000 and he was selling,... so are we ignoring all these sales during the biggest rise of last year and still say he caused the crash?

and finally people who want to sell a lot of bitcoin and get the money while not paying taxes and get stuck in exchanges and pay huge ridiculous fees, and a lot of headaches, they don't use exchanges. they go elsewhere and make their trades behind closed doors and when you trade anywhere but exchanges you don't affect the price at all.

You must be new to government crooks. These guys are bureocrats, they get hired to do a job and they get it done. In this case, the job was "sell BTC to pay investors". I wouldn't be surprised the guy didn't do any research, so just googled "how to sell bitcoin" then joined Kraken and started dumping in batches. If he was dumping the price in purpose or not we don't know, but what we do know is this:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-07/bitcoins-tokyo-whale-sells-400m-bitcoin-bitcoin-cash

Look at the graph. He sold 18000 at the dip, he was either panic selling or dumping in purpose.

And yes, he could benefit from crashing the market. We don't know if a government paid him to purposely crash the market.

And yes, dumping on a single exchange an huge amount of coins can trigger panic selling. Kraken is big enough to influence the rest of the markets.

lets assume you are right, answer me this then. what did the government gain by crashing the market? bitcoin is still alive, it is still being traded, it is still being accepted wherever it has been accepted before and people are still buying and using it! so what changed apart from price going down and some weak hands exiting?

as for that graph the numbers may seem high (2000, 6000,...) but they are not big in comparison.
here are the volumes on each date from BitStamp alone:
date: MtGox coins : Bitstamp vol
2017-12-18: 2000 : 14597
2017-12-22: 6000 : 48603
2018-01-17: 8000 : 38975
2018-01-31: 6000 : 12711
2018-02-05: 6000 : 46422

and as i said above it is still a matter of dumping on ALL exchanges if you want to crash the market. if you sell a lot on 1 exchange, price will crash there and it will not have any significant effect on the price in general. and from what i understood all the "analysis" points to selling on one exchange.

Well, what they gain is rather obvious, and it's 2 possible scenarios:

1) The hostile one: They think that this will help killing Bitcoin. While it does not stop the Bitcoin network from working, if the price is lower, the hashrate is lower, therefore the network is weakened. We need a strong price, having a low Bitcoin price is not good. It will still be alive, but it's not ideal. These dumps make a lot of people think that Bitcoin is a joke as a store of value, this could be their goal.

2) The long term one: They crash the price to buy in cheaper. Governments have understood that they can never kill Bitcoin, so they want to get in a relevant position, which means entering in cheaper than 20k, as cheap as possible actually, before we go to 100k++ per coin in the next decade. They want to get in cheap, that's all.

Intersan

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Quote from: juragane on March 10, 2018, 12:42:11 PM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 09, 2018, 11:54:10 AM

The MTGox trustee should know by now that he is the most hated man on Bitcoin. If no one has told him already, he must have seen some news.

If he doesn't stop, he is going to end up dead. I don't think Bitcoin $billionaires are enjoying this shitshow. So I think from now on he is going to go OTC as he should have done, unless Nobuaki Kobayashi wants to keep gambling with his life for god knows what reason.

I predict that the next week we will see some kind of official statements of sales going OTC. The market must take around 48 hours to digest these news and a bottom will be called. Buy the dip as usual.

it seems that this dump will not stop when there's no good news from bitcoin, so we can only hope there's good news from bitcoin in order to recover the price.

Apparently, the dump is really not over for the price of bitcoin is decreasing day by day and it felt like it will never end. As a hodler, I am starting to get alarmed by this market change and also because I know that banks in our country is also starting to get interested in bitcoin. They are being affected by the growing number of online wallets users because people are now interested in using those than depositing in banks.

I also hope that in the following days there will be some good news about bitcoin. I hope that there will be big investments so that the price will not go lower than its price today.

fabiorem

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Quote from: pooya87 on March 10, 2018, 11:05:49 PM

what did the government gain by crashing the market?

I think you misunderstand the nature and purpose of the State, as a concept.

Its all about power and control. By crashing the market, they ensure people will not buying it for some time, allowing them to print fiat to buy bitcoin for themselves at the dip. With this, they will control a part of the supply.

Different from gold, they dont need to control most of the supply, just a tiny bit, as crypto markets are new and hence, immature. Having this control, they put the price where they want, control the distribution, and then in some years they can implement their own national crypto-currency, one for each country, keeping the old world order in place, and peg it to the price of bitcoin, which they will be trading.

pooya87

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 10, 2018, 12:16:55 PM

Quote from: pooya87 on March 09, 2018, 11:44:27 PM

i am still not convinced about this news saying this single person crashed the market because a lot of things don't make sense to me.

first of all his purpose was not to crash the market because he did not benefit from any kind of crash.
think about it, the news tells us he was selling to have money to pay others.... in other words he didn't want the price to drop so he can buy more bitcoin, he wanted the price to go up and stay up so he could get more money out. someone with this motivation doesn't crash the market and will do everything in his power to prevent that as a matter of fact.

secondly, i say unless he was selling on all exchanges he couldn't have caused any kind of crash whatsoever because simply put if you dump on one exchange price may go down there but it won't follow on all exchanges. and as i explained above you don't just go around and fuck the market up to cause yourself a lot of loss.

third, the news also told us he started selling months ago. and if i am not mistaken when i checked the date versus the price, bitcoin price was around $4000 when the news said he started selling. this means price was $4000 he sold, it went to $5000 then $6000 and so on and he was selling, it went above $10000 he was selling, it went to $20000 and he was selling,... so are we ignoring all these sales during the biggest rise of last year and still say he caused the crash?

and finally people who want to sell a lot of bitcoin and get the money while not paying taxes and get stuck in exchanges and pay huge ridiculous fees, and a lot of headaches, they don't use exchanges. they go elsewhere and make their trades behind closed doors and when you trade anywhere but exchanges you don't affect the price at all.

You must be new to government crooks. These guys are bureocrats, they get hired to do a job and they get it done. In this case, the job was "sell BTC to pay investors". I wouldn't be surprised the guy didn't do any research, so just googled "how to sell bitcoin" then joined Kraken and started dumping in batches. If he was dumping the price in purpose or not we don't know, but what we do know is this:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-07/bitcoins-tokyo-whale-sells-400m-bitcoin-bitcoin-cash

Look at the graph. He sold 18000 at the dip, he was either panic selling or dumping in purpose.

And yes, he could benefit from crashing the market. We don't know if a government paid him to purposely crash the market.

And yes, dumping on a single exchange an huge amount of coins can trigger panic selling. Kraken is big enough to influence the rest of the markets.

lets assume you are right, answer me this then. what did the government gain by crashing the market? bitcoin is still alive, it is still being traded, it is still being accepted wherever it has been accepted before and people are still buying and using it! so what changed apart from price going down and some weak hands exiting?

as for that graph the numbers may seem high (2000, 6000,...) but they are not big in comparison.
here are the volumes on each date from BitStamp alone:
date: MtGox coins : Bitstamp vol
2017-12-18: 2000 : 14597
2017-12-22: 6000 : 48603
2018-01-17: 8000 : 38975
2018-01-31: 6000 : 12711
2018-02-05: 6000 : 46422

and as i said above it is still a matter of dumping on ALL exchanges if you want to crash the market. if you sell a lot on 1 exchange, price will crash there and it will not have any significant effect on the price in general. and from what i understood all the "analysis" points to selling on one exchange.

bbc.reporter

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 10, 2018, 11:32:12 AM

Quote from: alyssa85 on March 10, 2018, 09:11:26 AM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 09, 2018, 11:54:10 AM

The MTGox trustee should know by now that he is the most hated man on Bitcoin. If no one has told him already, he must have seen some news.

If he doesn't stop, he is going to end up dead. I don't think Bitcoin $billionaires are enjoying this shitshow. So I think from now on he is going to go OTC as he should have done, unless Nobuaki Kobayashi wants to keep gambling with his life for god knows what reason.

I predict that the next week we will see some kind of official statements of sales going OTC. The market must take around 48 hours to digest these news and a bottom will be called. Buy the dip as usual.

You are getting a bit worked up about something that happened all the way back in December and January, arn't you?

He didn't crash the market, he didn't sell enough coins...

Man are you blind? the biggest selloff happened on the $6000 dip day, this means around mid febraury, less than a month ago. He obviously crashed the momentum. These big red candles are his sales, it's pretty obvious look at the graph and at the date of the sales, I don't know what other proof you need.

He is either an idiot that doesn't understand what OTC is, or he was hired to purposely crash the market, pick one.

I agree. Also include FUD, some trading bots going bonkers over the selldown and the panic sellers in the mix, then we have a crash happening in front of us.

All of that thanks to one man who literally triggered the beginning of the crash and stopped the party.

juragane

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 09, 2018, 11:54:10 AM

The MTGox trustee should know by now that he is the most hated man on Bitcoin. If no one has told him already, he must have seen some news.

If he doesn't stop, he is going to end up dead. I don't think Bitcoin $billionaires are enjoying this shitshow. So I think from now on he is going to go OTC as he should have done, unless Nobuaki Kobayashi wants to keep gambling with his life for god knows what reason.

I predict that the next week we will see some kind of official statements of sales going OTC. The market must take around 48 hours to digest these news and a bottom will be called. Buy the dip as usual.

it seems that this dump will not stop when there's no good news from bitcoin, so we can only hope there's good news from bitcoin in order to recover the price.

BillyBobZorton

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Quote from: pooya87 on March 09, 2018, 11:44:27 PM

i am still not convinced about this news saying this single person crashed the market because a lot of things don't make sense to me.

first of all his purpose was not to crash the market because he did not benefit from any kind of crash.
think about it, the news tells us he was selling to have money to pay others.... in other words he didn't want the price to drop so he can buy more bitcoin, he wanted the price to go up and stay up so he could get more money out. someone with this motivation doesn't crash the market and will do everything in his power to prevent that as a matter of fact.

secondly, i say unless he was selling on all exchanges he couldn't have caused any kind of crash whatsoever because simply put if you dump on one exchange price may go down there but it won't follow on all exchanges. and as i explained above you don't just go around and fuck the market up to cause yourself a lot of loss.

third, the news also told us he started selling months ago. and if i am not mistaken when i checked the date versus the price, bitcoin price was around $4000 when the news said he started selling. this means price was $4000 he sold, it went to $5000 then $6000 and so on and he was selling, it went above $10000 he was selling, it went to $20000 and he was selling,... so are we ignoring all these sales during the biggest rise of last year and still say he caused the crash?

and finally people who want to sell a lot of bitcoin and get the money while not paying taxes and get stuck in exchanges and pay huge ridiculous fees, and a lot of headaches, they don't use exchanges. they go elsewhere and make their trades behind closed doors and when you trade anywhere but exchanges you don't affect the price at all.

You must be new to government crooks. These guys are bureocrats, they get hired to do a job and they get it done. In this case, the job was "sell BTC to pay investors". I wouldn't be surprised the guy didn't do any research, so just googled "how to sell bitcoin" then joined Kraken and started dumping in batches. If he was dumping the price in purpose or not we don't know, but what we do know is this:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-07/bitcoins-tokyo-whale-sells-400m-bitcoin-bitcoin-cash

Look at the graph. He sold 18000 at the dip, he was either panic selling or dumping in purpose.

And yes, he could benefit from crashing the market. We don't know if a government paid him to purposely crash the market.

And yes, dumping on a single exchange an huge amount of coins can trigger panic selling. Kraken is big enough to influence the rest of the markets.

1Referee

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 10, 2018, 11:32:12 AM

He is either an idiot that doesn't understand what OTC is, or he was hired to purposely crash the market, pick one.

It's not about being an idiot at all, but how these corrupt bastards are using this as an opportunity to increase their own holdings behind the scenes. If you know for sure that the market will tank badly, you'll sell every satoshi that you have, and then simply use the MtGox coins to crash the price further down, at which you will be buying back your own coins. I am sure if they did everything well, they more than doubled their own Bitcoin holdings. These people have no moral standards, and thus aren't shy to use everything they can in their advantage to benefit financially. This market is literally infested with such individuals. Mark, the fat fuck that he is, became more wealthy than ever before.

BillyBobZorton

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Quote from: alyssa85 on March 10, 2018, 09:11:26 AM

Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 09, 2018, 11:54:10 AM

The MTGox trustee should know by now that he is the most hated man on Bitcoin. If no one has told him already, he must have seen some news.

If he doesn't stop, he is going to end up dead. I don't think Bitcoin $billionaires are enjoying this shitshow. So I think from now on he is going to go OTC as he should have done, unless Nobuaki Kobayashi wants to keep gambling with his life for god knows what reason.

I predict that the next week we will see some kind of official statements of sales going OTC. The market must take around 48 hours to digest these news and a bottom will be called. Buy the dip as usual.

You are getting a bit worked up about something that happened all the way back in December and January, arn't you?

He didn't crash the market, he didn't sell enough coins...

Man are you blind? the biggest selloff happened on the $6000 dip day, this means around mid febraury, less than a month ago. He obviously crashed the momentum. These big red candles are his sales, it's pretty obvious look at the graph and at the date of the sales, I don't know what other proof you need.

He is either an idiot that doesn't understand what OTC is, or he was hired to purposely crash the market, pick one.

Marty_Mcfly

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And always there's some 'explanation' for each drop... It's the other way around you know: you see a drop and you want to believe some explanation. truth is: you never know with btc.

GoldenLad

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If I am right, I think this dumps has been going on for sometimes now; since the beginning of this year precisely. And then, there was no news of MTGox selling any bitcoin yet the price has been going down and up. In my own opinion, I don't think it was the trustee bitcoin sells that caused this dumps, anything else might have caused it and not MTGox actions. And its, not that I am supporting his actions which isn't right anyway. I am just saying that most dumps experienced in bitcoin price most times has no cause.

alyssa85

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 09, 2018, 11:54:10 AM

The MTGox trustee should know by now that he is the most hated man on Bitcoin. If no one has told him already, he must have seen some news.

If he doesn't stop, he is going to end up dead. I don't think Bitcoin $billionaires are enjoying this shitshow. So I think from now on he is going to go OTC as he should have done, unless Nobuaki Kobayashi wants to keep gambling with his life for god knows what reason.

I predict that the next week we will see some kind of official statements of sales going OTC. The market must take around 48 hours to digest these news and a bottom will be called. Buy the dip as usual.

You are getting a bit worked up about something that happened all the way back in December and January, arn't you?

He didn't crash the market, he didn't sell enough coins...

crzy

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Quote from: omonuyak on March 09, 2018, 10:49:35 PM

If one person can bring bitcoin price to the level it is today then we are in denger. I also believe that his life is not in denger because of what he has done but we should see him as a treat to the development of blockchain technology because what he did was an attacked to the cryptocurrencies.

But we have so many whales in the market I think most of them don’t what to bitcoin go down. The price of bitcoin will not only depend on one big whale but also the small people in panic that if you sum it all it can also consider as a whale. The market will bounce I’m sure on it, wait for it.

Lopumbo

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 09, 2018, 11:54:10 AM

The MTGox trustee should know by now that he is the most hated man on Bitcoin. If no one has told him already, he must have seen some news.

If he doesn't stop, he is going to end up dead. I don't think Bitcoin $billionaires are enjoying this shitshow. So I think from now on he is going to go OTC as he should have done, unless Nobuaki Kobayashi wants to keep gambling with his life for god knows what reason.

I predict that the next week we will see some kind of official statements of sales going OTC. The market must take around 48 hours to digest these news and a bottom will be called. Buy the dip as usual.

WTF is wrong with you? You wish someone dead because your magic internet beans drop in price?

But but...muh blockchain...much decentralization?

Cheesy

big green candle: stop the tether FUD, these are large institutional investors...hm...buying at market price
big red candle: these bastards should sell on OTC

this board is hilarious comedy

Denker

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 09, 2018, 11:54:10 AM

The MTGox trustee should know by now that he is the most hated man on Bitcoin. If no one has told him already, he must have seen some news.

If he doesn't stop, he is going to end up dead. I don't think Bitcoin $billionaires are enjoying this shitshow. So I think from now on he is going to go OTC as he should have done, unless Nobuaki Kobayashi wants to keep gambling with his life for god knows what reason.

I predict that the next week we will see some kind of official statements of sales going OTC. The market must take around 48 hours to digest these news and a bottom will be called. Buy the dip as usual.

If enough coins have been sold to compensate the losses of all former Mt. Gox users I believe no more sales will happen.
When I'm right the rest of the coins will go to Karpeles.
Otherwise you're right and I'm pretty sure the trustee will go OTC. He will definitely get some nice offers for a much better price.
He should have so from the beginning. But maybe some of his buddies were short and he gets a nice cut.
I can not believe they are that dumb and just market sell on exchanges in such big tranches. That makes no sense. There is more behind that imo.

leea-1334

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Quote from: BillyBobZorton on March 09, 2018, 11:54:10 AM

The MTGox trustee should know by now that he is the most hated man on Bitcoin. If no one has told him already, he must have seen some news.

If he doesn't stop, he is going to end up dead. I don't think Bitcoin $billionaires are enjoying this shitshow. So I think from now on he is going to go OTC as he should have done, unless Nobuaki Kobayashi wants to keep gambling with his life for god knows what reason.

I predict that the next week we will see some kind of official statements of sales going OTC. The market must take around 48 hours to digest these news and a bottom will be called. Buy the dip as usual.

I do not think so. If people like me as well as most of the reputable forum members here, who surely all own Bitcoin, are not really moved by this so called Tokyo whale, I doubt he has anything to worry about. The real whales who keep flipping Bitcoin for 10-15% should actually be happy. They keep buying below 10k, and selling above 11k, this latest dip probably means they were so happy to get in again so soon after selling.

krazy89

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Quote from: Harlot on March 10, 2018, 02:29:46 AM

I don't think that the Bitcoin billionaires are mad on the Mt. Gox trustee as even if it is the reason why they are going down they might as well contributed to Bitcoin going down this hard, what I mean about that is when Bitcoin is going down with a serious FUD chances are Bitcoin whales also started selling their Bitcoin in order to avoid losses as well as to buy Bitcoin at a cheaper price. Whales are there for a reason and one of those reason is not to let their money be trap on sitting.

Sell to avoid losses ? Thats why you never ever be rich like them
Even if btc dump down to 1000$ those btc billionaires still in profit , they never lose just less green for them.

Harlot

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I don't think that the Bitcoin billionaires are mad on the Mt. Gox trustee as even if it is the reason why they are going down they might as well contributed to Bitcoin going down this hard, what I mean about that is when Bitcoin is going down with a serious FUD chances are Bitcoin whales also started selling their Bitcoin in order to avoid losses as well as to buy Bitcoin at a cheaper price. Whales are there for a reason and one of those reason is not to let their money be trap on sitting.

mike4001

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Still BTC price much higher than it has been since last year.

You can't bring this argument forever ...

Topic: I believe the dumps are over (Read 398 times)