Topic: I believe this account is handled by someone else (Read 1028 times)

Since you got the final answers to why you started this thread, it's probably best to lock it now. There is no need for further discussion on this topic, all further writings here will be just useless spam.

Thank you @alani123 for having a call with me today, which went well. Obviously you grew, as it's been 4 years now since we made contact. Welcome back bro, Im glad to know everything is fine with you now at least. Hope to see you more here, and I hope we can work as we were used to working in the past.

Exactly, We will sort this out in one way or other, still have some of my doubts, but never asked any DT guy to give him neg, it was not my intentioned to give him neg feedback when I started this thread, it was created just for awareness purposes.

But I think that's a matter between you and him.

I don't think any DT is going to neg tag him because he doesn't want to do a face call with you. We need proof that he is not the same person, especially after he has signed a message. I understand that you doubt it but I don't think there is anything else we can do as things stand.

Hi bro, I understand crypto is all about being Anon. One should remain anonymous in this field and crypto allows us to be in that way. But, the case we are discussing is different, as I mentioned in the OP we have know each other for few years and we he worked for me on many projects, being my BDM, we used to have meeting with clients and internal meetings and we do it with Face calls. The way he left suddenly and how he appeared back it was strange and I know he already provided all the proofs but I was insisting on face call because I wanted to work with him again on my future projects.

Hey, friend Sashan. If you're going to respond to something JollyGood wrote on October 13, 2023, 02:21:42 AM it wouldn't hurt to look at what he wrote next on October 13, 2023, 12:43:19 PM after nutildah and I made similar criticisms. In short:

Bro, are you crazy? As a crypto user, how can you/we ask for video call verification (called know your customer). We have no right to do that and if we do that then what does bitcoin stand for? The writing style is okay, signing message okay. Now we can't say anything until there is anything happened which is suspicious.

Ah, that serves me right for posting well past my usual sleep time  

No we do not need to ask anybody for KYC to prove their identity and if he has severed his relationship with the OP and decides to not provide an explanation that is for him. What concerned me after reading the OP was recalling an account not that long ago seemed to have been traded and signing a message to demonstrate ownership was part of the deal.

I do not know, that is why I stated "if". The part I should have worded differently was the "all available evidence" part.

Yes it is but in this instance I think the OP was stating he was concerned by he was being avoided with someone he was on those types of terms with. And with that along with the return after inactivity no doubt made the OP concerned.

I have no idea how I missed it. I should have been in bed by that time, I hold my hand up because I got that one wrong. I was wrongly under the impression he was from the same country as the OP.

I am sending him a PM to apologise. As mentioned above by someone else, of he no longer wishes to interact with the OP that is a decision for him. He has signed a message from a known address therefore he does not need to do anything else.

I know you as well as I know him, i.e. nothing. And I know that he wrote from time to time on the local board of greece, and that he still does, just as he has signed two messages from a staked address. So for me to believe that he is not the original owner I need more than you saying that he has not made a face call with you.

I also spent some time without loggin in the forum and someone could claim that nowadays whoever manages this account is not me, and that I have to make a face call even though I can sign messages from my staked address. I will not tolerate that.

In your case, if what you say is true, I understand that you don't trust him and you can leave him a tag, either neutral or negative, but also think that maybe he didn't think as highly of you as you thought, and that's why he broke off the relationship. Sometimes it happens. I don't see much logic in the alternative version. Buying an account and keeping it unused for almost 4 years when you write in Greek and can sign messages from staked addresses, as opposed to what we see in almost every other case of accusations of accounts changing hands.

Not if two people already known each other for few years and they use to do it. I asked him only as we were close and use to do meetings at Skype. I asked him so we can start where we left, and if he is real G.K he will or would have already completed that ID verification with me.

Edit. 

I can confirm he is from Greece 🇬🇷. He invited me to visit him there 😝

Nobody should ever have to "commit to ID verification" here, that's creepy.

He has mentioned "Greece" dozens of times in his posting history:



Additionally, threatening people with negative tags if they don't respond to your inquiry - as you have done with your neutral trust - is not cool. Nobody should have to provide anybody with additional information about themselves. Its on you as an investigator to find the information yourself. In this instance, it was quite easy to do.

You haven't looked very hard, then. I have picked up pages of his post history randomly and I do see posts written in Greek. On page 51, or this one from May 2013, at the beginning of his post history. And I haven't looked very hard, so I'm sure there are many, many more.


Is this a joke or what? Are we going to ask for KYC now to prove ownership of bitcointalk accounts? Face calls? If he severed his relationship with the OP for some reason, maybe he suddenly doesn't feel like talking to him for the same reason he stopped talking to him.


How do you know this? As far as I know signing a message has always been considered the strongest way to prove ownership of a bitcointalk account.



So if he finally has a KYC/Face call with the OP we will continue to assume that the account has been bought, denying all the evidence?


I don't agree with this.

Well, in the past three days alani123 has made three posts in the Greek local board: Ninjastic

I have had a look at his post history and can find zero posts in local boards over the years yet here he is posting again after a gap of absence but has not committed himself to ID verification with you even though you and the original owner of the account were on video call terms.

If the account was hacked he should not be in position to use it. If it was sold/purchased, he still should not be able to use it therefore negative tags would suffice. The only way around avoiding negative feedback would be for the current operator of the alani123 account to prove to you he operates it therefore I will place a neutral tag. If he cannot verify his identity to you within 48 hours I will replace it with a negative tag.

Let us not forget, he signed a message from a known address, that means if the account was sold/purchased the known address was part of the deal just as many sales include nowadays. In an attempt to further deceive, the current operator could (by virtue of offering more money) ask the original owner to make that video call to claim he is still operating the account. We do not know what he will say but he should be allowed some time to reply.

I have sent a PM advising him to post here:

Hello alani123,

I hope you are well.

Thank you for posting in the thread irfan_pak10 created I believe this account is handled by someone else to question whether your account was still in the control of the person that created it. Also, thank you for signing a message from a known address.

All available evidence suggests the account has been either sold or hacked and for that reason I should leave a negative tag, however, I left a temporary neutral tag which will be removed either after you make the video call with irfan_pak10 and he confirms your identity or it will be replaced with a negative tag if you do not post in the thread with a believable explanation within the next couple of days.

Wishing you a good day. Thank you.

Kind Regards

If you have tried using various methods to contact him but he has not responded, there could be reasonable explanations but if he has returned to the forum and has posted in this thread (yet has consistently decided to ignore your request for a voice/video call to confirm his identity as well as chat between two associates who have communicated outside of this forum several times), it seems he is actively avoiding you.

Yes there is a strong possibility the account could have changed hands but it is too soon to state for sure. As alani123 has now joined a signature campaign he will not be able to ignore you or this thread because he will need to meet post quota to receive payment. He really should clear this doubt as soon as possible by contacting you.

Irfan_pak10 you did well to have drag his attention at least to be at the safer side, actually lot of drama do happen over here for just a common mistake and with our decision and finding we might conclude and give a rash decision on something we might not know is just a common error or mistakes but, I am grateful he came to clear the air by signing a message. This alone stops the whole drama, maybe when next we need to be patient to wait for feedback maybe probably we can wait for some weeks or months to know whether that person will respond after reading messages because there are people who have other jobs that mostly occupied their time and could give little attention to the forum so at the cost of their absence we might ran into conclusion that something phishing is wrong with the account.

Update- He is active but seems to be dodging my question, I pmed him here and on Skype two days ago, but no answer. Hoping he missed my message.

I really hope that this is G.K, As I missed him a lot, he was my company BDM and was really good at his job. Sent him a PM and want to call as soon as he sees my messages, so we can start working where we left.

I was going to make a comment to him about confirming to you the last three digits of your Whatsapp number but then decided to not mention it because when accounts get sold nowadays many of them come along with email addresses and a known/linked address capable of signing a message therefore returning to the seller to ask for the Whatsapp number should not be too difficult if the accounts was sold. I am not stating that is what occurred, I am speculating at some possibilities.

Having said that, if he made a video call with you that would be excellent for identity confirmation otherwise it will raise questions even if there is a signed message from a known address.

Glad to see you back bro, Just PMed you here, and would like to connect through our old channels so we talk about what happened, why you suddenly left all the channels including WhatsApp.


The last thing remaining is identity verification, Which I can do easily through video call, which we used to do back in 2019. Hope @alani123 can do this step with me.

I have verified the signature via electrum and Now I have no doubt about the ownership of the account. And as I have no doubt of the ownership of the account I am going to remove the neutral tag which I have given at the time of suspension of the account ownership.

Verified.


Yes. I think us bitcointalk detectives can go rest for a while now. We leave you and irfan_pak10 to settle your affairs.

Ok I did some of my own sleuthing.

It was a copy-paste error 100%. (Even I wasn't sure personally). Loyce's service saves once again.

Falconer had simply deleted their response.
See:
https://loyce.club/archive/topics/526/5268286.html
https://loyce.club/archive/posts/5498/54981867.html

Or search on your own by thread ID here:
https://loyce.club/archive/members/

And yeah, I also get the concern of the signature possibly maybe having been created in the past.

Here's a new one:
-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
October 6 2023, Narges Mohammadi gets Nobel prize. alani123 still the same person
-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNATURE-----
18Lthn7ZjLiig1Z6xBmJxzRjwqWq7pe4qN

H6Uhke1Z8+JibeJ4WkPXEU4pk5c3LCqBqbqbc3fMfFySIAst5d+MThQcTvXAytH1AwVdMlCM4WpiE7DMUN74QWc=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

I hope this proves account ownership beyond reasonable doubt now.

I have also verified the signed message but as shasan stated, without a date being added (and maybe mentioning the URL of this thread) it does not mean much. Call it the curiosity of Bitcointalk detectives if it pleases you 

The OP was concerned therefore created the thread, had you responded to him this thread would have been unnecessary. Imagine, going through all this hassle including replying in this thread but ignoring this post. Can you add your perspective?

Your signature has been verified by Electrum. But the signature can't be proof this has been created today. So, can you please mention the date of today or about this thread? Also can you please respond to the post mentioned here?

I've verified it using Electrum.


As you can see, the whole thing started because he said he had regular contact with you and suddenly you disappeared. And with the number of accounts that change hands on the forum, don't be surprised that there are detectives.

Take 2

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Alani123 bitcointalk account is still owned by the same goofus.
-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNATURE-----
18Lthn7ZjLiig1Z6xBmJxzRjwqWq7pe4qN

IBGyoOMRqWZqYA6o2EOPCU1wqv0nZycoh8QBidQwFMCuL9FLMDuoBTsOeOFYsbJKuiqWgzybtqdI1+GnQWXswk8=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

I could not understand why you could not know about this topic also you have posted here after 2 messages from me. Anyway, I have tried to verify via Electrum as well as https://www.verifybitcoinmessage.com/ but I could not verify that. Would you like to re-check your signature?

Whoah, bitcointalk detectives are still very active. Good job on your sleuthing everyone. I'm amazed.
Yes, seems like I made a copy-paste error. Even I didn't notice it.

-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Alani123 bitcointalk account is still owned by the same goofus.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/updated-list-of-gambling-websites-797299
-----BEGIN BITCOIN SIGNATURE-----
18Lthn7ZjLiig1Z6xBmJxzRjwqWq7pe4qN

H6Ty0zEbkhc0mqCnenzAI7UXaZl+EKlMnHoGnfXZBlqFd/yhHVE2BssFD7KsP8mRjhShfg85Dcoq9xAnjwFQfU0=
-----END BITCOIN SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Those that have used bitcoin in a decentralized manner should know that this serves as irrefutable proof I'm the original owner of this Bitcointalk account.
I will message Irfan personally over this, no further comment needed I believe. Thanks for understanding.

This is very possible. I mean copying and pasting other peoples application posts, and then editing it with our own details is very common practice amongst campaign participants and bounty hunters, participants mostly do this to make their application post come faster, most especially for those who are early enough and have the opportunity of having their application on the first page of the campaign or bounty thread.

But then, its unfortunate that some person, out of being too in a hurry fail to completely edit out their application after having copied it from another user.

Going by this, i guess its ok to say that the real owner of this account is dead probably, and the account is now in custody of maybe a family member or friend, cus I don't want to believe that the initial owner is still alive and sold this account, for if it was so, why did it take him so long to do it?.

That's weird, but I think it's a simple copy-paste error.

They both posted in the Gamdom.com campaign thread. Falconer posted first so I think alani123 probably copied his post and changed all the information except the profile url.



Falconer's post: https://ninjastic.space/post/54981867
alani123's post: https://ninjastic.space/post/54981914

'

Interesting, If he can reach me through the channel we used to use before, or we can even do a face call, as I, still remember his face. Then, I can assure you if he is real or fake. I thought he died, as he just vanished one day from all the channels simultaneously. I used to call him but no answer.

The annoying part of these thing is that the person in question won't know how many persons that might have been trying to contact him and getting worried about such development on his account here on Bitcointalk just to verify if he's the one still running the account and also on his other social media accounts.
And in some cases someone who has misplaced his sim can be less concern about his contacts that he can't get access to, but I think the only way OP can get connected is only IF this guy in question did something like a backup on his Whatsapp, but if not then it will be hard.


Two things can happen,
(1) The person in charge (let's say is not the real owner) can really go through some of the old PMs and follow the how they relate and also flow with the chat just to push OP's curiosity aside to continue using the account.
(2) The user can as well pretend he didn't get any PM from the OP and you can't take actions with that kind of behavior yet, just have to be very careful before hashtag that account as stolen account.

But what if the real owner truly sold the account to this person operating it? I'm just saying because things can happen in this way.

I agree with you because something like that can happen with many people. I believe in most countries in order to register a sim card one has to provide ID verification and sometimes the ones who're underage takes help from others in order to open sim card for them. That can be true in the case of OP he might have lost access to the sim card which he owned back then and once someone doesn't have access to the number which they used on Whatsapp then most probably they won't be able to reply to the ones who were in their contact list.

I also think that OP should send the user a PM and see what type of replies he will get, and if the reply seems similar to the ones that the original owner of the account sent to OP during the time when they were in contact with each other then the case is solved, however if the reply seems different then still OP will have to try other ways in order to confirm that the original owner is not operating the account. I think if the one who's operating the account is trying to contact @shasan then he might be the real owner of the account because otherwise why would he want to send a reputed member a PM in order to prove himself.

It can be that the owner of this said account might have changed his contact or something might have happened that's why the OP couldn't get to him since trying his line or something. Has the OP tried dropping a PM for him on this Forum to get a familiar response? If not he should try it.
As it is this is a very delicate matter that needs to be taken care of with calmness and you shouldn't rush into making a decision that might spoil someone's account and it could be that the said account is being run by the original owner, who knows? And 3 years is a very long time to be offline, lets just assume that he lost his phone and has changed all his contact.

If you talk about @alani123, I also see a little oddity in the assumption, whether @alani123's account was sold/hacked.
However, even though the evidence is not strong enough to state that @alani123's account was sold/hacked, I noticed something odd in the post made by @alani123.

The irregularity I mean can be seen from the application posted by @alani123 himself, which alani123 placed in the @Falconer profile application.

Which makes me feel a little odd here, @alani123 The application is posted in a different campaign.
*alani123, Gamdom.com campaign.
* Falconer, BK8 campaign.

That's what makes me a little confused, is @alani123 controlled by @Falconer or vice versa.

Proof can be seen below, press on profile.
https://archive.vn/wip/IqrxQ

https://archive.vn/wip/tQfLw

Maybe I don't care about sending the application sent by @alani123, if it is in the same campaign it will probably be copy/pasted, which makes me think there is control between the two, the application is in a different campaign, but the profile is the same.

What do you think in this case, is there a possibility like the topic title.

I am not sure it is as simple as that. The account has woken up after more than three years of inactivity and there is the case that the OP has been unable to contact the creator of the account and that has been out of character. If the current operator of the alani123 account is the original creator, they would easily be able to confirm the mobile number (or other mode of contact) they used to chat with the OP. 

Well, actually, I just replied in a thread of his, and ended up in this thread guided by sashan's neutral feedback. I see that in this case it's going to come up again the question whether to red tag him, and it seems from what irfan_pak10 says that he will end up with a red profile. Unless he signs a message with the addresses quoted.

For me that when this thread was opened he disappeared, as he didn't publish any post from September 12, 2020, until two days ago. I think now he is trying to come back to the forum as disguising to see if he can make money with the account.

So someone woke up and ignored you, so you automatically jump to conclusions the account has changed hands.

Is that the sum of your "proof" ??

Maybe he is ignoring you. I am sure he owe you money LOL
Frankly speaking, an account can easily change it's hand and the new owner may not have a clue of your previous relation with this account owner.

Well  alani123 has posted / used many addresses https://ninjastic.space/user/id/121796?addresses from years gone by so a signed message from at least one would be a good place to start.

It's a legendary account dating back to 2013 so I can see that either the original owner wanting it back if it's really them.

-Dave

I am trying to bump the thread as I have received a private message regarding the ownership of the account. From the message, the user (alani123) is trying to say that s/he is the actual account holder of the account. I have  told to proof the ownership of the account on this thread.

He was my business development manager. I knew him very well, disappearing was very shocking to me, I thought something might have happened to him.

- Tried PMing him before, I tried him few days ago too but no response

He was online in December 2018 and then came back in November 2019. So maybe you recently saw his posts and thought he is active now but that about 2 months he have been active on this forum. Secondly if he is not responding you doesn't mean that the owner has been changed. You need to provide some more proofs here.

There's a lot of 'ifs' there. It is possible that he lost access to his previous contacts, his number could be blocked by his local operator and he's too lazy to create a new one, he disables his pm because he got too many spams etc. Are there any red flags such as he suddenly starts asking non-collateral loans, change in posting behavior or post quality, etc?


I think irfan should prove that he is indeed not the current owner first, not the other way around. Just because he doesn't respond to your message doesn't mean it is a different person imo.

I think that removing positive trust is not necessary when we have not identified the users, despite the high probability that this account is being used by someone else. The best way is to make a neutral trust to alert people, avoiding unnecessary transactions until this account is proven.

Just is if  but what if he doesn't stake his address? What should we do next? At the least, the OP should send the topic date link to that account and ask him to prove it. If in a period of time he cannot prove the account, we can make the allegation.

I supported what you said because people go through some emergency or disaster which may lead to the lost of phone, home and valuable properties. Besides, if the user mentioned by the OP is indeed an old buddy there should an old slang which they both use each time they communicate he can that to also figure out if the account holder is now someone else.

Based on what you wrote, it definitely looks suspicious. If @alani123 have staked Bitcoin address, I think we should ask him to post a signed message from this address. It probably will answer all questions. OP, have you tried to contact him on Bitcointalk when he didn't answered you on other platforms?

If you believe ownership changed then first change your trust. and send this link to the current user so that the person can know about this thread. Then the person will prove ownership if the person is the real owner.

Edit:
Just noticed, positive trust removed.

I had a good connection with user alani123 back in 2018-2019 when he disappeared from all the online channels. I tried him everywhere even his WhatsApp but could get any response till now. He was offline from bitcointalk too, Now few days ago I see activity from this account and again tried all the channels but not getting a response. That's why I'm believing the account owner has been changed.