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Not your key not your BTC

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Quote from: Paul Pogba on June 23, 2023, 05:41:37 AM

Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on June 17, 2023, 08:51:10 PM

You don't know the owner, but what makes you sure to deposit bitcoin to exchange?.

what makes you sure that your Bitcoin arrived safely and was not taken away by the owner?

I always thought that,
same as banks, I don't want to save it for long time, because banks often go bankrupt, and the owner run overseas.

I've had real experience that the assets I saved in Kucoin were lost, in 2018 I was active on the Kucoin exchange, then early 2019 until the end of 2021 or more than 2 years I was inactive but still left some altcoins like the MCO Monaco Card which is now changing to CRO, ETH, BTC and so on, when I want to log in again access is denied, then when I contact the service they can complete it and can log in, but when I log in all assets are lost and the deposit address has changed, beware if we store in exchanges.

This is a lesson for someone who still keep it on exchange.
Thanks for sharing

Paul Pogba

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Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on June 17, 2023, 08:51:10 PM

You don't know the owner, but what makes you sure to deposit bitcoin to exchange?.

what makes you sure that your Bitcoin arrived safely and was not taken away by the owner?

I always thought that,
same as banks, I don't want to save it for long time, because banks often go bankrupt, and the owner run overseas.

I've had real experience that the assets I saved in Kucoin were lost, in 2018 I was active on the Kucoin exchange, then early 2019 until the end of 2021 or more than 2 years I was inactive but still left some altcoins like the MCO Monaco Card which is now changing to CRO, ETH, BTC and so on, when I want to log in again access is denied, then when I contact the service they can complete it and can log in, but when I log in all assets are lost and the deposit address has changed, beware if we store in exchanges.

freedomgo

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Quote from: Darker45 on June 17, 2023, 09:37:02 PM

Those are the right questions. And the answer to both is: nothing. There's nothing that guarantees us that our funds are safe in centralized exchanges. This SAFU thing is a big joke. The truth is that once you let go of your coins, it is not safe anymore. Once you lose control of your coins, you can no longer assume that they're safe.

Indeed, banks and centralized exchanges are no different from each other. They're using their depositors' money for something else. They risk and invest and even give away and spend money they don't own. Supposing each and every depositor decides to withdraw all that they have in their accounts right now, they will all end up short.

Even reputable exchanges cannot guarantee the safety of our coins, same with the big banks in our country. So the moment we let it out from our own hands, then we are not its owners anymore, but everything belongs to the centralized exchange or bank that we have trusted. As we’ve often said, not your keys, not your coins. So never put everything you have in a centralized exchange. They may be trusted for now but we never know in the future. Just use a centralized exchange if you are planning to trade, but you can never put your coins there for long term hodling. Have your own hardware wallet or non-custodial wallet wherein you are the only one holding your keys.

Not your key not your BTC

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Quote from: Crypt0Gore on June 23, 2023, 02:08:00 AM

LMAO, so where do you keep your money if not in the Bank?

I don't keep the fiat. All my fiat just converted to btc.
I am save.

Crypt0Gore

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Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on June 17, 2023, 08:51:10 PM

You don't know the owner, but what makes you sure to deposit bitcoin to exchange?.

what makes you sure that your Bitcoin arrived safely and was not taken away by the owner?

I always thought that,
same as banks, I don't want to save it for long time, because banks often go bankrupt, and the owner run overseas.

LMAO, so where do you keep your money if not in the Bank? In my country the bankruptcy only happened once and that's years back, I have been keeping money in banks since I was 15 years old and I've never lost a penny to the Banks.

If you have to use a crypto exchange, you need to use the popular or biggest ones, before you there are millions of people using the exchange and if there is a problem, you would see a lot of reviews online about the problem.

If people are using the exchange then your money is safe for transactions on the exchange, for that day or the next, I don't advice to leave the funds on the exchange like it's a bank, once you are through with your trades, move your funds out.

Those who got caught in exchanges going bankrupt left their assets on the exchange as if it's the bank..

goldkingcoiner

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Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on June 17, 2023, 08:51:10 PM

You don't know the owner, but what makes you sure to deposit bitcoin to exchange?.

what makes you sure that your Bitcoin arrived safely and was not taken away by the owner?

I always thought that,
same as banks, I don't want to save it for long time, because banks often go bankrupt, and the owner run overseas.

I agree completely. Anyone who deposits their coin into a third party wallet, especially one that is connected to a centralized service, such as a crypto exchange, cannot be trusted with their own money.

The very point of Bitcoin is to be your own bank. But people would rather give it all to an exchange. Why should someone else decide what happens to your wallet and you coins? Perhaps people think that somehow, they are more insured this way. But if the exchange loses everything, you will have no money but instead only a claim that someday, they have to pay you back.

Not your key not your BTC

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Quote from: PytagoraZ on June 22, 2023, 06:54:47 AM

Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on June 21, 2023, 06:47:18 PM

Kids,

I am not wrong if I say you are a child or kid because you don't know what is different with goods and value.

! btc = 1 btc, is value, not goods, you must back to elementary school and back to learn, please...

Okay fine, try to explain what is the meaning of value?

Quote

Synonyms of value
1
: the monetary worth of something : MARKET PRICE
2
: a fair return or equivalent in goods, services, or money for something exchanged
3
: relative worth, utility, or importance
a good value at the price
the value of base stealing in baseball
had nothing of value to say
4
: something (such as a principle or quality) intrinsically valuable or desirable
sought material values instead of human values
—W. H. Jones
5
: a numerical quantity that is assigned or is determined by calculation or measurement
let x take on positive values
a value for the age of the earth

https://www.merriam-webster.com/

Which value do you mean here?

If you search on the Google search engine with the keyword "bitcoin value" then what comes up is the price of bitcoin with fiat money. That means most people see the value of bitcoin from the price in fiat money. The value in question is the economic value. Bitcoin was created to be a currency, so the main value of bitcoin is economic value

If you have another opinion, please explain. Don't just talk and say "kids". I think the word "kids" you use to address me is blasphemous, and blasphemy has no value. I'm not against differences of opinion, so let's have a healthy discussion

Kids,

You have to focus on a topic, that useless you talked about the meaning of value but you don't have a focus on a topic

You still kid on my eye. It wastes my time if I explain what if value if you don't understand it.
You have to read economic book 1st before joined on bitcointlk !!!!!!

"don't teach the fish to swim the proverbial"

Unbunplease

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Quote from: bayudndy on June 22, 2023, 07:18:00 AM

There is no absolute guarantee in the process of using and trading on different platforms, but I think it is safe enough for me and many people who are confident enough to accept the transaction. This market is not new for people to have doubts, things that fail or fail over time will be purified and people will know to choose but what is right for themselves. Sometimes we have our own problems in life too, even though we know that food may have dangerous substances one day, we still choose to eat it.

The problem of the reliability of exchanges is a serious problem. There is always a risk that the funds you send to the wallet of an exchange can be frozen for some reason. OTC trading is more reliable if you use escrow. However, you need to understand that there are no absolute guarantees anywhere.

khiholangkang

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Quote from: Pierre 2 on June 21, 2023, 04:16:07 AM

There must be only 2 main reasons to deposit your Bitcoin to crypto exchanges. First one is to trade. Exchanges are the most convenient way to sell or buy Bitcoin. I don't trust other options. Second reason is to generate extra money through "earn" schemes. I personally disliked using exchanges to deposit money. I preferred hardware wallets. So OP is definitely right with it. Crypto investors should hold their coins at hardware wallets. But I think it can be benefiting to hold coins at earn schemes of exchanges too if you feel safe enough.

Yes, trading is one of my main reasons for entering bitcoin into exchange, to get more money with, if not trading for someone I might be difficult to increase the amount of my Bitcoin investment which I always keep in a hardware wallet when the amount is enough for saved.
Saving in the exchange even though we feel calm and safe, it is still very risky, as said that maybe the owner of the exchange takes away your money then runs abroad, if that happens you might lose all your money or bitcoin.
I suggest not to do that, even though the exchange is trusted, we also need to see how people last season really believe in FTX, but then they lose their money.

bayudndy

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There is no absolute guarantee in the process of using and trading on different platforms, but I think it is safe enough for me and many people who are confident enough to accept the transaction. This market is not new for people to have doubts, things that fail or fail over time will be purified and people will know to choose but what is right for themselves. Sometimes we have our own problems in life too, even though we know that food may have dangerous substances one day, we still choose to eat it.

SaveOurSea

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Quote from: Wong Gendheng on June 22, 2023, 01:00:15 AM

Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on June 17, 2023, 08:51:10 PM

You don't know the owner, but what makes you sure to deposit bitcoin to exchange?.

what makes you sure that your Bitcoin arrived safely and was not taken away by the owner?

I always thought that,
same as banks, I don't want to save it for long time, because banks often go bankrupt, and the owner run overseas.

Cases of fraud from Exchanges certainly make us always worried to store assets in Exchanges, we do not have full control so that when we want to withdraw sometimes it looks like a beggar that makes us have to be patient, just like what happens with banks, when we really need cash and must be Going to the cashier then we are like a beggar and it appears that we are not the owner of money at the bank.

True, I don't think we can deny that there are many cases of fraud from the stock exchange and that is of course a fear for those of us who want to keep it there,
the security system needs to be tightened to avoid such cases although we also cannot hope for it to disappear completely,
but for now there are many good and trustworthy exchanges.

PytagoraZ

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Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on June 21, 2023, 06:47:18 PM

Kids,

I am not wrong if I say you are a child or kid because you don't know what is different with goods and value.

! btc = 1 btc, is value, not goods, you must back to elementary school and back to learn, please...

Okay fine, try to explain what is the meaning of value?

Quote

Synonyms of value
1
: the monetary worth of something : MARKET PRICE
2
: a fair return or equivalent in goods, services, or money for something exchanged
3
: relative worth, utility, or importance
a good value at the price
the value of base stealing in baseball
had nothing of value to say
4
: something (such as a principle or quality) intrinsically valuable or desirable
sought material values instead of human values
—W. H. Jones
5
: a numerical quantity that is assigned or is determined by calculation or measurement
let x take on positive values
a value for the age of the earth

https://www.merriam-webster.com/

Which value do you mean here?

If you search on the Google search engine with the keyword "bitcoin value" then what comes up is the price of bitcoin with fiat money. That means most people see the value of bitcoin from the price in fiat money. The value in question is the economic value. Bitcoin was created to be a currency, so the main value of bitcoin is economic value

If you have another opinion, please explain. Don't just talk and say "kids". I think the word "kids" you use to address me is blasphemous, and blasphemy has no value. I'm not against differences of opinion, so let's have a healthy discussion

Wong Gendheng

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Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on June 17, 2023, 08:51:10 PM

You don't know the owner, but what makes you sure to deposit bitcoin to exchange?.

what makes you sure that your Bitcoin arrived safely and was not taken away by the owner?

I always thought that,
same as banks, I don't want to save it for long time, because banks often go bankrupt, and the owner run overseas.

Cases of fraud from Exchanges certainly make us always worried to store assets in Exchanges, we do not have full control so that when we want to withdraw sometimes it looks like a beggar that makes us have to be patient, just like what happens with banks, when we really need cash and must be Going to the cashier then we are like a beggar and it appears that we are not the owner of money at the bank.

DevilSlayer

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I'm part of the people who have huge guts or let's say a big balls to put money and invest it without hesitation because we know that it is part of the risks that we are taking if we want to grow our money and create a real wealth. There are a lot of exchanges nowadays but only few have good service, high security and trusted developers. Let's say that the knowledge has a big role on it because I got information on where to put my money for me to have security that I'll not lose it but there is still a small chance of failing but I accepted it and that is why there is a risk.

I suddenly remember the quote of Henry Ford and it is about majority of people do not understand how banking and monetary system works, and if they found out how really it works, Henry Ford believe that there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning. So for me crypto > bank.

Putting money on cryptocurrency is less riskier than putting your money on bank. The banking scam is real and that's why we should really invest in our knowledge to have better decisions in terms of investing.

wxa7115

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Quote from: Smack That Ace on June 21, 2023, 09:58:12 PM

This is not surprising because exchanges operate similarly to banks, what they show you are just a series of numbers representing the value of your assets, and you do not have full control. I think everyone knows about this. People who put their money on exchanges know this, but they trust the exchanges and are willing to hand over their money to them. To be fair, exchanges are still very useful in some use cases, but it is everyone's fault that they trust them too much by handing their assets over to them.

It is the same story that we saw with gold so it is not surprising we are witnessing the same thing happening again, back in the day people were not confident they could store their gold coins securely so they used banks for this, and banks took advantage of that trust and lent the majority of those coins, creating fractional reserve banking on the process.

And now exchanges have the opportunity to do the same with bitcoin, do I believe they will resist the temptation to do so? Not really, and it is even likely it is already happening.

Uruhara

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Quote from: mich on June 21, 2023, 01:15:17 AM

Well this is a interesting way to think about it. We do not know the owner and we must trust the exchanges to not run with our funds after we have sent our funds to them.
There is at least 200 crypto exchanges that will take your funds to trade with. It is up to us to do our research in the ones we can trust. For me it is only the top 4 I will use for my trades, Binance, Coinbase, Kraken, and Kucoin.
These are most popular and most volume then the others. If we send our funds to a exchange like Coinjar and Coinhub, we are taking a big risk. https://coinmarketcap.com/rankings/exchanges/

absolutely true it's better to just choose the top rated exchange than the lowest rated one. I personally only use Binance, OKX, kucoin and Bybit. and I've had bitter experiences with other low rated exchanges. i.e. I made a withdrawal but it was never processed until now. I have contacted customer service but they only responded at the beginning but never followed up. fortunately the funds that I kept in the exchange is only a small amount. since then I have only used the top exchanges only. but that doesn't mean I trust them. but indeed there is no easier choice other than these exchanges.

Smack That Ace

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Quote from: Learn Bitcoin on June 21, 2023, 08:18:20 AM

Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on June 17, 2023, 08:51:10 PM

You don't know the owner, but what makes you sure to deposit bitcoin to exchange?.

what makes you sure that your Bitcoin arrived safely and was not taken away by the owner?

I always thought that,
same as banks, I don't want to save it for long time, because banks often go bankrupt, and the owner run overseas.

I think people never check their exchange deposit addresses on the blockchain. I noticed that exchanges take your coins as soon as possible. Let's say your deposit address is bc1qjln8efg5tcpk3tthf3rkuqlqg5wnnvxqpl3cu5 this one (I collected this random deposit address of Binance). Whenever your deposit to your exchange wallet, even though the money is on your Binance balance, the amount won't stay on your deposit address. They can move the coin whenever they want. They just show you the number in your balance. When you request a withdrawal, they send it from their hot wallet. I don't think we people ever checked this and ever thought about this.

This is not surprising because exchanges operate similarly to banks, what they show you are just a series of numbers representing the value of your assets, and you do not have full control. I think everyone knows about this. People who put their money on exchanges know this, but they trust the exchanges and are willing to hand over their money to them. To be fair, exchanges are still very useful in some use cases, but it is everyone's fault that they trust them too much by handing their assets over to them.

Not your key not your BTC

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Quote from: PytagoraZ on June 21, 2023, 04:17:04 AM

Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on June 20, 2023, 06:00:49 PM

Kids, you are new in this world, you don't know anything, you must learn and study 1st before create a comment. you have to know if bitcoin has a value, 1 bitcoin = 1 bitcoin, I don't know why kid like you always compare bitcoin with fiat, are you sleep?

Are you kidding? Nobody trades bitcoins for bitcoins, Nobody trades apples for apples, Nobody trades oranges for oranges.

Everything that has value can be exchanged for other products. You don't like banks, you don't like crypto exchanges, what are you going to use? If there were no crypto exchanges then bitcoin would not be in demand.

Bitcoin is an asset, so people save bitcoin for price increases. Bitcoin is a currency, so people need an exchange to get bitcoins.

If you think I understudy, that's true. Please recommend me what book to read? What economics concepts should I learn?

Kids,

I am not wrong if I say you are a child or kid because you don't know what is different with goods and value.

! btc = 1 btc, is value, not goods, you must back to elementary school and back to learn, please...

posi

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Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on June 20, 2023, 06:00:49 PM

Quote from: PytagoraZ on June 20, 2023, 07:56:59 AM

Do you really not trust crypto exchanges? I trust well known crypto exchanges, like binance, coinbase, etc. If there is no exchange then bitcoins are of no use. There is no single valuable asset that cannot be exchanged for money. So crypto exchanges are an important instrument for building trust in bitcoin. Bitcoin is an asset that has value, you can sell bitcoin whenever you need money.

Kids, you are new in this world, you don't know anything, you must learn and study 1st before create a comment. you have to know if bitcoin has a value, 1 bitcoin = 1 bitcoin, I don't know why kid like you always compare bitcoin with fiat, are you sleep?

I'm not saying that we should trust exchanges, but you shouldn't deny that centralized exchanges also play an important role in bitcoin's growth.
It can be said that it is the best bridge and intermediary to help people access bitcoin. I also agree that, without exchange, bitcoin would not be where it is today. I know bitcoin maximalists will disagree with this, but it's true.

By the way, 1BTC=1BTC, it's really just advice for people who bought bitcoin at a high price, and with that advice will help them be less stressed.
But that doesn't make any sense, as long as fiat remains the main currency, the measure of the economy, bitcoin will mean nothing if it's not tied to fiat.

Learn Bitcoin

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Quote from: Not your key not your BTC on June 17, 2023, 08:51:10 PM

You don't know the owner, but what makes you sure to deposit bitcoin to exchange?.

what makes you sure that your Bitcoin arrived safely and was not taken away by the owner?

I always thought that,
same as banks, I don't want to save it for long time, because banks often go bankrupt, and the owner run overseas.

I think people never check their exchange deposit addresses on the blockchain. I noticed that exchanges take your coins as soon as possible. Let's say your deposit address is bc1qjln8efg5tcpk3tthf3rkuqlqg5wnnvxqpl3cu5 this one (I collected this random deposit address of Binance). Whenever your deposit to your exchange wallet, even though the money is on your Binance balance, the amount won't stay on your deposit address. They can move the coin whenever they want. They just show you the number in your balance. When you request a withdrawal, they send it from their hot wallet. I don't think we people ever checked this and ever thought about this.

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