I feel like I'm dreaming, is this crap for real? For how long? - page 2.

dingus

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Quote from: AngelusWebDesign on June 09, 2011, 03:42:35 PM

Bitcoin IS indeed a Ponzi scheme if people can't (or don't) start paying for everyday purchases with Bitcoin.

To exchange it, someone has to want to BUY Bitcoins on the other side. Who does that today? Mostly speculators hoping to cash in on the rise of Bitcoin value.

There are benefits to turning your USD into bitcoins. One reason is you control your money. No one can pump money into the system to devalue your dollars. Pseudo-anonymity being another reason. The fact that bitcoin is bankless (and therefore fee-less) is another reason. The fact that I can send coins to anyone around the world without converting and reconverting between different currencies is another reason. The fact that any number of coins can all fit into a postage stamp sized SD card is yet another benefit.

bcpokey

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Well FreeJaC people are playing fast and loose with the definition of ponzi scheme. They are really conflating the idea with a pyramid scheme. Neither one is technically true, but they're both close enough that it's not really worthwhile to argue it.

Bitcoin does need to be usable for transactions. It is. But it needs wider penetration. However you have to remember that bitcoin is still tiny. I keep telling people this and they keep dropping it out of their heads. Already however you can buy food, computer parts, lots of illegal drugs, pornography, and other things with bitcoins, that's a pretty good start considering there are only about 30-50000 users (not sure at the moment).

Right now there is healthy interest in bitcoin, and it is growing, and growing fast (even if most of the attention is focused on mining and selling). It may collapse either from too little growth or too much growth in the future, but so can anything.

gat3way

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Once seasoned folks decide to cash out it's very much becoming a Ponzi scheme. Well someone gotta profit on all that swarm of people throwing thousands of fiat currency into GPUs and BTC. Anyway, unlike Ponzi schemes that would not be the end of it all. It's like evolution you know

Nobrainers deserve their fate.

FreeJAC

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I don't think this can be characterized as a ponzi scheme because of the fact that you can mine as in do work and be paid for it. Ponzi schemes are giving noobs money to the seasoned folks that have been around longer and that isn't really happening here. Or am I that naive? LOL! Many have not put any money into this scheme and have taken money out doing work. (AKA mining)

AngelusWebDesign

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Bitcoin IS indeed a Ponzi scheme if people can't (or don't) start paying for everyday purchases with Bitcoin.

If it's mostly guys speculating in Bitcoins and/or computer hardware, how is it different than Dot-com stocks, house flipping, or tulip bulbs? In all those cases, people thought the value would keep going up, until some physical limit was reached (houses are only affordable up to a certain price; someone said "$500? Hey, I just bought a tulip bulb for $500!") and then it all unravels/collapses.

Bitcoin needs to have a more stable value -- that is, a value in something other than exchanging it for US currency. To exchange it, someone has to want to BUY Bitcoins on the other side. Who does that today? Mostly speculators hoping to cash in on the rise of Bitcoin value.

dingus

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Quote from: pwnyboy on June 09, 2011, 03:26:56 PM

Quote from: dingus on June 09, 2011, 03:09:12 PM

I am confused by these two statements. You say it is a ponzi scheme but how is that revolutionary?

You clearly missed the part where I stated the _ideas_ are revolutionary. I was referring to the design from a technical and logical standpoint.

Bitcoin is still boot-strapping itself and it's economy. Of course those who were early adopters will be wealthier than those who came in late. It is part of the risk. The higher risk you take the more money you could possibly earn or lose. It's the same as those who bought google stocks before they shot up in price. Would you call that a ponzi scheme? I am willing to bet if you were an early adopter with 100k+ coins you wouldn't be screaming ponzi scheme.

Nemesis099

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Quote from: pwnyboy on June 09, 2011, 05:00:13 AM

Quote from: iMiner on June 09, 2011, 03:06:06 AM

But by mining you kind of buy insurance against a fall in bitcoin value, considering the (historically) strong correlation between price and difficulty (but of course: historic results...no guarantees....etc.)

The correlation is that newcomers buy up coins, price goes up, kiddies run out and buy as much hardware as they can. Since Bitcoin has no utility yet (except for criminals or people who want to make micropayments without fees), it's essentially nothing more than a glorified ponzi scheme - the machine needs new entrants (investors) to keep the scheme running, otherwise it fizzles out and dies. Though I do hope it becomes much more than that, because the ideas behind it are revolutionary.

I just started and what I liked about it is that as long as I'm able to make money back to pay off the equipment in around 3-4 months it is worth it to me. This gives me a huge return as I get a computer I wanted without my wife complaining about purchasing it. So hopefully the ponzi scheme lasts long enough for me to do that or I won't hear the end of it.

pwnyboy

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Quote from: dingus on June 09, 2011, 03:09:12 PM

I am confused by these two statements. You say it is a ponzi scheme but how is that revolutionary?

You clearly missed the part where I stated the _ideas_ are revolutionary. I was referring to the design from a technical and logical standpoint.

Bit_Happy

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A Great Time to Start Something!

Quote from: dingus on June 09, 2011, 03:09:12 PM

Quote from: pwnyboy on June 09, 2011, 05:00:13 AM

Quote from: iMiner on June 09, 2011, 03:06:06 AM

But by mining you kind of buy insurance against a fall in bitcoin value, considering the (historically) strong correlation between price and difficulty (but of course: historic results...no guarantees....etc.)

it's essentially nothing more than a glorified ponzi scheme...

Though I do hope it becomes much more than that, because the ideas behind it are revolutionary.

I am confused by these two statements. You say it is a ponzi scheme but how is that revolutionary?

It's BitSpeak, welcome to the Brave New World. Cheesy

Currently Bitcoin has many similarities to a brilliant Ponzi scheme. If the BTC economy and general usage grows fast enough, then it will be revolutionary.

dingus

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Quote from: pwnyboy on June 09, 2011, 05:00:13 AM

Quote from: iMiner on June 09, 2011, 03:06:06 AM

But by mining you kind of buy insurance against a fall in bitcoin value, considering the (historically) strong correlation between price and difficulty (but of course: historic results...no guarantees....etc.)

it's essentially nothing more than a glorified ponzi scheme...

Though I do hope it becomes much more than that, because the ideas behind it are revolutionary.

I am confused by these two statements. You say it is a ponzi scheme but how is that revolutionary?

iMiner

newbie

Activity: 37

Merit: 0

Quote from: pwnyboy on June 09, 2011, 05:00:13 AM

(except for criminals or people who want to make micropayments without fees)

Exactly that may turn out to be an important detail.

pwnyboy

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Merit: 100

Quote from: iMiner on June 09, 2011, 03:06:06 AM

But by mining you kind of buy insurance against a fall in bitcoin value, considering the (historically) strong correlation between price and difficulty (but of course: historic results...no guarantees....etc.)

The correlation is that newcomers buy up coins, price goes up, kiddies run out and buy as much hardware as they can. Since Bitcoin has no utility yet (except for criminals or people who want to make micropayments without fees), it's essentially nothing more than a glorified ponzi scheme - the machine needs new entrants (investors) to keep the scheme running, otherwise it fizzles out and dies. Though I do hope it becomes much more than that, because the ideas behind it are revolutionary.

niemivh

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Quote from: Icy- on June 09, 2011, 02:40:09 AM

Quote from: bcpokey on June 09, 2011, 02:37:58 AM

Quote from: Icy- on June 09, 2011, 02:37:01 AM

Someone posted it for me based off of 4 grx cards

http://bitcoinx.com/profit/index.php

Ok, well I guess if a webpage said it then it must be true.

No different from anyone else telling me, how about you stop being so rude.

That's how we initiate around here.

You passed.

iMiner

newbie

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But by mining you kind of buy insurance against a fall in bitcoin value, considering the (historically) strong correlation between price and difficulty (but of course: historic results...no guarantees....etc.)

Xer

member

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http://bitcoinx.com/profit/index.php is wrong in so many ways it should be shutdown. As it simply Does Not account for any difficulty increases AT ALL.

That one has been a issue for beginners for a long time now now by giving out false earning values.

nemo

sr. member

Activity: 500

Merit: 253

You gotta be careful with those month long predictions. I thought I was going to be pulling in shit gallons of bitcoins a month. Turns out I'm only pulling in a couple poopoo pints here and there. It's badass, but you're not going to get the amount of coin you're thinking. Then again, the price could shoot up and it wouldn't matter.

I was expecting 150 coins a month when they were at $6, ended up getting 35 coins, but now they're 30. So basically you're buying a mining rig to speculate.

Jack of Diamonds

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Go to http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator.php and enter 1000000 as the difficulty. That's what you will be mining at in 2-3 weeks. Then roughly 2 weeks after that 1300000 etc.

bleedkira

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