Topic: I just created 100 pennies.. and loaned them out, you owe me 101 pennies….. - page 5. (Read 6066 times)

I know. like ARBEIT MACHT FREI, most believed it. Maybe telling children about a man on the sky (FORBIDDEN BY ISLAM) or the XMAX gift givers, or what ever else, isn't a good idea. Furthermore I think most westerners live still a life where they don't need to ask too much question to survive (food stamp, ebt, social income etc), once it's gone will see... but it will be too late then, like entering the "showers" for cleansing... in a way it's true, rationalization is the worst enemy of honesty... but look for example as the Iraqi in irak1 when powel put them under their tombs, or the ukies now... hubris lies, it can work with your wifes because you can beat her if she doesn't agree... try to beat reality good luck.

Yeah most of my family and friends have barely heard the word fiat, let alone understand it. Much easier to embrace the lie...

you don't understand the word legal tender note. btw the poster said there was only 100 pennie. but you can extend it to full money supply + interest, where do come the interest? by the new freshly bills printed to the connected ones (first banks, then their trading parteners, then the rest) meaning that you lower on the chain.

However and I want that to be clear, I know it ain't the best post but he will do, I am sure that the 1000 best hedgies, traders and others mps, would be almost the same on sea shell currency... (a few the losers would be unable to survive, but those don't trade, they just pimp and everyone know who are the real MPs).


frankly I understood it as a man on his island, a theoretical question, otherwise with your approach the answer is quite simple : money counterfeiting, expect a raid by the police, so you will never be able to create 100 penny.

Money is a form of value. If only 100 pennies are in existence, there is a value captured equal to 100 pennies. By paying the interest you have to make new value or else your money is flawed.

I first give you back 50 pennies.  I now owe you still 51 pennies.  You spend those 50 pennies back in my place against GOODS AND SERVICES.  Now I have again 100 pennies, I owe you 51 pennies.  I pay them to you.  I still have 49 pennies, and my debt to you has been resolved.

The point is that one shouldn't confuse money quantity and money flux.  A debt implies a money FLUX.  That flux can be paid for with a smaller amount of existing money, on the idea that the money is spend more than once (the velocity of money is greater than 1).

This is what makes interest no more a problem than the production of goods and services.

What actually happened was that you obtained goods and services in return for a money flux.

Indeed, you could turn the false problem in an equivalent story where the idiocy is evident:

Suppose that there are only 100 pennies in circulation, and that there are goods and services sold for more than 100 pennies.  How could these goods and services ever be bought then ?  Won't the limited amount of money stall the economy ?

The answer is in fact the same: the amount of goods and services sold, is sold against money FLUXES.  The total amount of integrated money flux can be larger than the total amount of money in circulation.  The ratio is exactly the "velocity of money".

If there are only 2 pennies in circulation, we can nevertheless exchange 100 eggs (a penny each) against 50 apples (2 pennies each).

Indeed, I have 2 pennies.  I buy an apple from you.  Now you have 2 pennies.  You buy two eggs from me.  Now I have again 2 pennies and an apple, and you have 2 eggs.
Repeat: I buy again an apple from you.  You buy two eggs from me.  I buy an apple from you.  You buy two eggs from me.
Repeat still 47 times.

We have in total sold 100 eggs and 50 apples (worth 200 pennies) with only 2 pennies in circulation.  The velocity of money was 100.

Interest on a loan is paid in exactly the same way.



(the funny thing is that part of Keynesianism is based upon that same idiocy).

The interest is just compensation for the owner postponing his consumption (of the lent out stuff) or for postponing spending the money on consumption or investment.

You can lend out your car for a weekend to a friend, and let him top up the tank as compensation. There is no magic.

The problem of lending money is that the loan gets some money-like features, therefore extends the total amount of money and therefore the value of money, until it is cleared. (Paid back or written off).

You could imagine that if car loaning was easy and abundant, it would also extend the aggregate of car availability, reducing the value of cars.

nice try, but not good enough.

nice try. but there is no escape, it's evil.

This puzzle is intended to make a point, but it doesn't because the solution is so simple:

1. I return the 100 pennies to you.
2. I buy (or trade for) one penny from you.
3. I give you the one penny interest.

Here is another solution:

1. I loan the 100 pennies back to you + interest.
2. The loans are the same, so we agree to cancel them.


The point the OP is trying to make is that if money is debt, then interest cannot be paid if there is only enough money to repay the loans. According to the OP, the U.S. must go deeper into debt in order for there to be enough money to pay the interest, but that means yet more interest that cannot be paid.

Since all money is backed by debt, there seems to be a problem because if all debt is repaid, then there is no more money (to pay the interest, for example). Of course, there is no real problem (other than having no form of money), as I have pointed out the solutions above.

Cool, a leopard can't change its spots I guess lol

My point doesn't change anything, but it might explain why nobody is backing you up bro. It's probably NOT because they're ball-snipped cowards, more likely many are 'enjoying' your public displays of pain & frustration. Not nice, but probably true, and the reason is you've irritated a lot of people here. Not me though, I think you're OK, but I think I'm in the minority.

In a time of crisis you want/need friends & allies to help you.

welcome to the gang of the money printer... it's incredible how the people have been fooled in that... expect cia visit soon... they can't tolerate competition in the girl picking.

party B just needs to loan Party A 50pennies for 2% interest

what this guy is saying , i would have a really hard time beliving 50% knows.

Zero chance of this. Most of my friends have zero idea what money is.  If 50% knew we would be in a civil war or all the bankers would be hung.  I'd say more like .5% knows.

I don't think that most people understand the implications of that 1 penny scarcity in terms of what it does to people. Debt is that first 100 pennies that needs to be returned but that extra penny is what starts putting injecting fear and desire FOR the money. NOT what that money will get you, but money itself.

If you want to understand why people who are multi-billionaires still want more money, then look at how interest affects desires at a macro level. If you want to understand why 4 million people went homeless when there was enough housing to provide shelter for everyone in the US, then again look at how interest affects our fears.

It's a pretty crazy system and I am so thankful that we have an alternative now. BITCOIN!

Make a credit card for that kind of pennies.
From that point everybody's "money" will be only entries in a (your!!) database.

Then you can transform their money debts into things with real value: gold, properties, real businesses.

haha smaragda, can't delete this post lol

why you so pissed off at me posting in your simcoin rant thread bro?


fair observation dude. guy like klee gets hacked and people help him and show sympathy, you get scammed (so you say) and you get BIG RED ANGRY at bystanders because nobody backs you up - why you think nobody support you bro? I've seen you help many people before, and you obviously aren't stupid, so why nobody care for you?

bad karma for your personal style - too much abuse, too much pointless macho antics from behind your PC - learn bro .. be nice ... don't delete posts, otherwise you look like a cry baby lol

Lol, then u make 1 pennie profit.

You want to take loan of 100 pennies? Ok the deal is, I'll give you a loan amounting to 100 pennies, but to seal the deal, you will only get 99 pennies but during payback, it's 100 pennies.

The obvious solution is to pay back on an installment plan.  Presumably the lender is seeking wealth, so he'll spend (or loan or whatever) some pennies back into circulation.  That way the borrower can purchase a penny on the market.  The word "circulation" means "movement".  If the lender expects to be paid back with the same 100 non-fungible pennies he created, plus one more that doesn't exist, he'll have a hard time finding a borrower to accept that deal and there will be no movement.

The less obvious solution is to punch the person asking the question.  They obviously think that this question illustrates some deep principle of the modern world, but all that it illustrates is that they were fooled by a trick question that shouldn't stump a 10 year old.

Oh, and Steve Keen did a lecture on this topic.  Check his website for the video.  He ran simulations of a closed economy with a fixed amount of money, and they ran just fine.  Debt with interest didn't wreck up the place or anything silly like that.