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Topic: I just dont understand what is going on . . . and a question on Chase seizure - page 2. (Read 2547 times)

hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
So people selling bitcoins on localbitcoins need to be registered as MSBs too?  I thought it was only exchanges themselves, but maybe volume is a factor.  I was thinking of selling on localbitcoins eventually, so I guess I'll have to look into these laws eventually.

I signed up for Coinbase myself and was reluctant to use them initially because the fees are relatively high compared to the exchanges, but it's so easy to use that I'm willing to put up with a 1% fee.  I was hoping to use bitstamp with their lower fees, but since I don't live in Europe the fees would actually be higher than Coinbase's fees overall since I'd have to pay wire transfer fees or SnapSwap's fees if I went the Ripple route.

My personal theory on why the price is lower on non-MtGox exchanges is because the volume is so much less.  More volume tends to push up prices, so MtGox prices get pushed up and the other exchanges prices tend to stay lower.

It depends.  If you are selling because you want to sell bitcoins and buy dollars you should be fine.  If you make it your business to buy and sell for people and take a fee you are a broker and must register.

I've had nothing but good experiences with Coinbase, but obviously you need to make your own assessment of the risks of any business you hold money with.

That makes sense.  Oh, I'm not complaining about Coinbase as a company.  I used them to buy my first bitcoins and the process went very smoothly, the coins arrived when they said they would.  I just like to minimize my fees when buying, that's my reason for being inclined to buy elsewhere.  I'm looking at CampBX now, but I haven't decided for sure if I'll switch yet.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
So people selling bitcoins on localbitcoins need to be registered as MSBs too?  I thought it was only exchanges themselves, but maybe volume is a factor.  I was thinking of selling on localbitcoins eventually, so I guess I'll have to look into these laws eventually.

I signed up for Coinbase myself and was reluctant to use them initially because the fees are relatively high compared to the exchanges, but it's so easy to use that I'm willing to put up with a 1% fee.  I was hoping to use bitstamp with their lower fees, but since I don't live in Europe the fees would actually be higher than Coinbase's fees overall since I'd have to pay wire transfer fees or SnapSwap's fees if I went the Ripple route.

My personal theory on why the price is lower on non-MtGox exchanges is because the volume is so much less.  More volume tends to push up prices, so MtGox prices get pushed up and the other exchanges prices tend to stay lower.

It depends.  If you are selling because you want to sell bitcoins and buy dollars you should be fine.  If you make it your business to buy and sell for people and take a fee you are a broker and must register.

I've had nothing but good experiences with Coinbase, but obviously you need to make your own assessment of the risks of any business you hold money with.
hero member
Activity: 490
Merit: 500
So people selling bitcoins on localbitcoins need to be registered as MSBs too?  I thought it was only exchanges themselves, but maybe volume is a factor.  I was thinking of selling on localbitcoins eventually, so I guess I'll have to look into these laws eventually.

I signed up for Coinbase myself and was reluctant to use them initially because the fees are relatively high compared to the exchanges, but it's so easy to use that I'm willing to put up with a 1% fee.  I was hoping to use bitstamp with their lower fees, but since I don't live in Europe the fees would actually be higher than Coinbase's fees overall since I'd have to pay wire transfer fees or SnapSwap's fees if I went the Ripple route.

My personal theory on why the price is lower on non-MtGox exchanges is because the volume is so much less.  More volume tends to push up prices, so MtGox prices get pushed up and the other exchanges prices tend to stay lower.
full member
Activity: 144
Merit: 100
This is hilarious. Thank you all. Best laugh of the day!
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
Hi,

I bank with Chase. I asked them specifically and the answer I received was that they could not comment on why the alleged accounts were closed or frozen but that my account was not in danger of being closed if all I was doing was transfering money to and from a legal exchange, regardless of what type of commodoties that exchange dealt with.

My suspicion is that the reddit thread is a load of balderdash, that they either were doing something illegal (such as acting as an exchange without the proper paperwork), laundering money, or something else that triggered the accounts to be closed and/or frozen.

reddit is a neat place but it frequently is full of half-truths so take reports there with a lot of salt. Sometimes truth is stretched, sometimes outright lies are told.
I appreciate the reply. I don't know you so I dont know what your transaction volume is like. But the reddit caught my eye because I dont get to see too many people who do large BTC volume. I'm not saying I'm the biggest out there, I'm not, but I'm probably not the average Chase customer with 1 or 2 BTC exchange deposits every once in a while. Literally all my deposits are from exchanges and I average about 5-8 deposits every day. I'm sure the reddit people were similar or (more likely) higher than that.

If you are a US citizen and you are not operating under a registered money services provider, you are breaking the law and will have your account closed if someone ever decides to look into your transactions.

Take it easy there, Bernanke . . .

1 - Nowhere did I say that I was not a registered MSB. You are making a ton of assumptions there.

2 - The law only requires registration after 180 days - I have not operated that long. I am in the process of establishing my LLC and will have all FinCen paperwork in place before my 180 days is up.

3 - Even legitimate businesses that ARE registered as MSBs are still getting their accounts seized & shut down.

In conclusion, you don't know what you're talking about . . .

I didn't make assumptions, I added conditions to my statement.... see how it starts with IF.  I just wanted you to be aware since you were asking if your account could potentially be closed.  In conclusion, you are an ass.
member
Activity: 125
Merit: 10
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
If you are selling bitcoins for cash / buying bitcoins for cash as your business then yes, you have to register.
I don't do that which is why I don't have to worry. That's operating as an exchange, transmitter, etc.

That will be the case regardless of where you bank.
legendary
Activity: 1904
Merit: 1002
Hi,

I bank with Chase. I asked them specifically and the answer I received was that they could not comment on why the alleged accounts were closed or frozen but that my account was not in danger of being closed if all I was doing was transfering money to and from a legal exchange, regardless of what type of commodoties that exchange dealt with.

My suspicion is that the reddit thread is a load of balderdash, that they either were doing something illegal (such as acting as an exchange without the proper paperwork), laundering money, or something else that triggered the accounts to be closed and/or frozen.

reddit is a neat place but it frequently is full of half-truths so take reports there with a lot of salt. Sometimes truth is stretched, sometimes outright lies are told.
I appreciate the reply. I don't know you so I dont know what your transaction volume is like. But the reddit caught my eye because I dont get to see too many people who do large BTC volume. I'm not saying I'm the biggest out there, I'm not, but I'm probably not the average Chase customer with 1 or 2 BTC exchange deposits every once in a while. Literally all my deposits are from exchanges and I average about 5-8 deposits every day. I'm sure the reddit people were similar or (more likely) higher than that.

If you are a US citizen and you are not operating under a registered money services provider, you are breaking the law and will have your account closed if someone ever decides to look into your transactions.
member
Activity: 125
Merit: 10
member
Activity: 125
Merit: 10
I also forgot to mention that another reason why I'm confused/concerned about current conditions is because I am once again finding arbitrages across markets. I was able to find arbitrage across markets like Coinbase & CampBX and Coinbase & Tradehill. With the ridiculous fees that Coinbase charge, arbitrages shouldn't even be possible. But they are and that's a little worrisome - efficient markets shouldn't have this large number of arbitrage possible.
full member
Activity: 168
Merit: 100
Hi,

I bank with Chase. I asked them specifically and the answer I received was that they could not comment on why the alleged accounts were closed or frozen but that my account was not in danger of being closed if all I was doing was transfering money to and from a legal exchange, regardless of what type of commodoties that exchange dealt with.

My suspicion is that the reddit thread is a load of balderdash, that they either were doing something illegal (such as acting as an exchange without the proper paperwork), laundering money, or something else that triggered the accounts to be closed and/or frozen.

reddit is a neat place but it frequently is full of half-truths so take reports there with a lot of salt. Sometimes truth is stretched, sometimes outright lies are told.
member
Activity: 125
Merit: 10
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