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Topic: I love bitcoin but there are some concerns (zero difficulty in the early days) (Read 2409 times)

sr. member
Activity: 518
Merit: 250
How many people know before 2013 about it? Almost nobody!

That is true.  Satoshi didn't even make an ANN in the altcoin forum at bitcointalk, which is a sure sign of a scam launch. 

On the other hand, these forums at bitcointalk were a lot more boring before Bitcoin was invented.  Mainly we would just start topics like "Why is this site called bitcointalk when there is no such thing as bitcoin?"
full member
Activity: 574
Merit: 104


All other coins have a much worse distribution.


Distribution of total value? Sure not!

If you mean 'less people are holding individual alts, maybe' because everyone holds bitcoin by default, sadly. But if you ask for weight of the users in marketcap bitcoin is pretty poor. Every fair launch alt that meets standard requirements of 'fair' has a better wealth distribution than that (and you can still buy large shares in them for small money).
In Bitcoin a small group of people holds most, and a very large group of people holds less than 10BTC each.
But it's your lifesavings, sure dump them into BTC and get 0.0000000001% share in return, not my business.


legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1008
Delusional crypto obsessionist
Don't put your lifesavings in it, dammit! The distribution of the coins is sheit! How many people know before 2013 about it? Almost nobody! A lot coins been mined in the early days. So Bitcoin has the worst distribution of all the coins! Go for a fair launch altcoin which launched later to diversify your funds. Don't put all on one horse.   Bitcoin has many problems.

Lol nice try. All other coins have a much worse distribution.
You actually encourage me to do it because your comment reads totally sarcastic Grin

I already did convert some extra this morning and I already regret I did not do more Wink
full member
Activity: 574
Merit: 104
When Satatoshi started mining the genesis block, he put some code into it to prove that the genesis block was not created earlier than that date:
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

But why did he not take a natural event like an earthquake, storm, flood or some other random event not caused by humans?
The financial crisis could have been planned/forseen. And also the newspaper item could have been planned in advance because it was done by people.
So to me it is no proof that the genesis block was not created earlier than 03/jan/2009. There could have been a lot of people knowing this in advance.

There is also another concern, the difficulty:
These are the first days of bitcoin mining

03/01/2009 18:15:05,0.00004971026962962963
04/01/2009 18:15:05,0.0
05/01/2009 18:15:05,0.0
06/01/2009 18:15:05,0.0
07/01/2009 18:15:05,0.0
08/01/2009 18:15:05,0.0
09/01/2009 18:15:05,0.0006959437748148148
10/01/2009 18:15:05,0.0015410183585185184
11/01/2009 18:15:05,0.005269288580740741
12/01/2009 18:15:05,0.004424213997037036
13/01/2009 18:15:05,0.0057166810074074075
14/01/2009 18:15:05,0.006263493973333333

You see there were 5 days where Satoshi turned off his mining machine.
What could have been the reason for that?
Was he waiting for others to join the mining first so that he did not end up with way too many coins?
Was the genesis block created (days, weeks, months) earlier and did he do something in between? (Fork the chain, hide some coins, I don't know)

Are these things a real concern? I mean, what if there are some coins hidden on a side chain. Couldn't we agree to fork the bitcoin code into declaring january 9th the day of genesis?

I've been reading about bitcoin on a daily basis for the last two years and these things are the only concerns for me to not put the remaining of my life savings into bitcoin.



Don't put your lifesavings in it, dammit! The distribution of the coins is sheit! How many people know before 2013 about it? Almost nobody! A lot coins been mined in the early days. So Bitcoin has the worst distribution of all the coins! It is what we call these days a 'ninjalaunch'. Go for a fair launch altcoin which launched later to diversify your funds. Don't put all on one horse. Bitcoin has many problems. The ninjalaunch and huge holdings of satoshi is just one of them.
sr. member
Activity: 518
Merit: 250
When there is only 1 computer mining and it gets turned off, the chain is broken in my opinion.


It's not a matter of opinion, if you know what a blockchain is.
 
The chain is unbroken between blocks, which can be proven and can't be changed or falsified without changing all the blocks that came after it.  Each block comes from the block before it, that's what makes the chain. 
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1008
Delusional crypto obsessionist
If you really believe that a single man is able to fool all those people working on the code.. sure.

You must read what I wrote.
I do not believe it is/was a single man.

Quote
Thus there can't be any evidence to support any theory.

So we end up having a broken chain which everybody is fine with
There is no evidence of a broken chain?
When there is only 1 computer mining and it gets turned off, the chain is broken in my opinion.


Quote
I highly doubt that you're a developer.

I never said I was.
legendary
Activity: 1022
Merit: 1008
Delusional crypto obsessionist
My apologies for naming trolls, but you seem so convinced of conspiracy that you are willing to make allegations without understanding. Dozens if not hundreds of coders have made contributions to Bitcoin and understand how it works, nothing that you postulate here could have gone unnoticed.

I just don't trust anything I don't fully understand. I know it fuels conspiracy thoughts, but I take that for granted.

Quote
Here's one of the screenshots from early bitcoin that Satoshi used in documentation. It has addresses and transactions that are not seen in the release blockchain, but notably the dates are the same as the genesis block. The blockchain height is 213 blocks at that time though, so this may even be a chain using a genesis block before the Times headline. It is certainly expected that Bitcoin was tested privately in many iterations before it was released, with much discarded private mining.


Thanks! I appreciate your effort to look up the picture and post it.

Quote
Don't put more money into any investment than you can lose. Bitcoin will keep working, but there's no guarantees of what others will pay you for one.

I know I know,  thanks for the reminder anyway.


legendary
Activity: 1008
Merit: 1000
The low difficulty early is hardly an issue. Barely anyone was mining so it had to stay that way.

The issue which should worry you is the control by the Cartel for a supposedly decentralized system.
legendary
Activity: 2674
Merit: 2965
Terminated.
If you really believe that a single man is able to fool all those people working on the code.. sure.

You must read what I wrote.
I do not believe it is/was a single man.

Quote
Thus there can't be any evidence to support any theory.

So we end up having a broken chain which everybody is fine with
There is no evidence of a broken chain?
I highly doubt that you're a developer, or good with technical details as some of the members around here are.
donator
Activity: 668
Merit: 500
When Satatoshi started mining the genesis block, he put some code into it to prove that the genesis block was not created earlier than that date:
"The Times 03/Jan/2009 Chancellor on brink of second bailout for banks"

But why did he not take a natural event like an earthquake, storm, flood or some other random event not caused by humans?
The financial crisis could have been planned/forseen. And also the newspaper item could have been planned in advance because it was done by people.
So to me it is no proof that the genesis block was not created earlier than 03/jan/2009. There could have been a lot of people knowing this in advance.

There is also another concern, the difficulty:
These are the first days of bitcoin mining

03/01/2009 18:15:05,0.00004971026962962963
04/01/2009 18:15:05,0.0
05/01/2009 18:15:05,0.0
06/01/2009 18:15:05,0.0
07/01/2009 18:15:05,0.0
08/01/2009 18:15:05,0.0
09/01/2009 18:15:05,0.0006959437748148148
10/01/2009 18:15:05,0.0015410183585185184
11/01/2009 18:15:05,0.005269288580740741
12/01/2009 18:15:05,0.004424213997037036
13/01/2009 18:15:05,0.0057166810074074075
14/01/2009 18:15:05,0.006263493973333333

You see there were 5 days where Satoshi turned off his mining machine.
What could have been the reason for that?
The genesis block has extremely high difficulty (in that it would pass a much higher difficulty threshold than 1).  No other block until something in the 30,000s, 9 months later, had a lower hash.  He was probably doing last minute stuff and whilst doing that had his machines trying to find the lowest hash before kicking the whole thing off.
Q7
sr. member
Activity: 448
Merit: 250


You see there were 5 days where Satoshi turned off his mining machine.
What could have been the reason for that?
Was he waiting for others to join the mining first so that he did not end up with way too many coins?
Was the genesis block created (days, weeks, months) earlier and did he do something in between? (Fork the chain, hide some coins, I don't know)

Are these things a real concern? I mean, what if there are some coins hidden on a side chain. Couldn't we agree to fork the bitcoin code into declaring january 9th the day of genesis?

I've been reading about bitcoin on a daily basis for the last two years and these things are the only concerns for me to not put the remaining of my life savings into bitcoin.



Why fret over these issues after so many years. There could be other reasons unexplained but I don't think there's any problem because bitcoin was practically worth nothing at that early stage. Overall, I don't see it being a threat towards bitcoin network or its integrity in any way.
hero member
Activity: 700
Merit: 501
I don't think it would be possible to store coins "off-chain" and then add them in later. Each new block contains the hash of the previous block so all coins can be traced back to their generation.

Those "off-chain" coins would not appear anywhere on the current blockchain so any transactions referencing them would not be accepted by the network.


maybe Satoshi used all his coins to buy all the supercomputers in the world and is waiting the correct time to overrun the current blockchain and spend all his off chain coins at once, therefore crushing the prices and everything else?

I dont see satoshi being that kind of guy. He's probably on a small nice house in the country enjoying the free time coding interesting stuff.
legendary
Activity: 2660
Merit: 1074
I don't think it would be possible to store coins "off-chain" and then add them in later. Each new block contains the hash of the previous block so all coins can be traced back to their generation.

Those "off-chain" coins would not appear anywhere on the current blockchain so any transactions referencing them would not be accepted by the network.


maybe Satoshi used all his coins to buy all the supercomputers in the world and is waiting the correct time to overrun the current blockchain and spend all his off chain coins at once, therefore crushing the prices and everything else?
legendary
Activity: 1358
Merit: 1014
Well, of course you're right that his could have been planned in advance or something, but I really think the danger this could potentially have for Bitcoin to be miniscule. The biggest 'true' danger would be if Satoshi decided to unload all the coins he mined in the early days - if he (still) controls them. But also that would be something Bitcoin would eventually cope with!
That could crush the price real hard, but if there is enough demand people would enjoy the cheap ass coins. Right now it wouldn't be a good idea tho. I think satoshi is holding for life anyway.
sr. member
Activity: 350
Merit: 250
Honest 80s business!
Well, of course you're right that his could have been planned in advance or something, but I really think the danger this could potentially have for Bitcoin to be miniscule. The biggest 'true' danger would be if Satoshi decided to unload all the coins he mined in the early days - if he (still) controls them. But also that would be something Bitcoin would eventually cope with!
sr. member
Activity: 518
Merit: 250
runpaint, my words were written not for you Smiley
(I agree with everything in your message. I just do not use tag writting my opinion)

Oh shit did I just go asperger?  I'm spending too much time on this message board, I might turn into a programmer
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1019
runpaint, my words were written not for you Smiley
(I agree with everything in your message. I just do not use tag writting my opinion)
sr. member
Activity: 518
Merit: 250
Quote
just buy a little bit and diversify the rest... dont worry about the concerns they've been thought of before by thousands of very intelligent people, its no problem.
The question is: how to distinguish intelligent people from all others?
The answer: intelligent people have a paid advertisment in their signatures on forum

My signature space is worth more to me than what they're paying.  I decline that money so that I can buy credibility in this community, because people will know that I'm not just selling something.  But they can also send me a little btc to my address, if they want.  And if I share something or teach something that helps another member here earn a lot of money, he might show his thanks with a lot more money than those advertisements are paying.
full member
Activity: 165
Merit: 100
No I did not see fluctuations in my wallet.
I still got the same amount of bitcoins stored there. Well, not exactly true, I bought some additional so it's slightly more.
Try to stop comparing everything to the dollar. It's bitcoin which is stable and the dollar which is unstable.


"It's bitcoin which is stable and the dollar which is unstable."

Which has a direct impact on the VALUE of a coin, in any currency..

It doesn't matter how unstable it is, all other currency are affected by one another, decreasing the value of a coin, for now.

Sure maybe in 6 months you will be laughing at me when it's back up to $900, but when it's not? And its $20?


The only time I convert between FIAT and bitcoin is when I want additional bitcoin.
I don't sell them bitcoins back for fiat.
I only spend bitcoin for goods and services.

And of course, there are times you can better hold or buy additional than to spend them.
Bitcoin supply is pretty stable because human interaction is minimized.
FIAT supply is horrible because you're dependent on (evil) people who control the supply.
Gold is better than fiat but you can't spend that shit through a wire.



Think as you wish, I would still not put LIFE SAVINGS into btc.

What would u rather line your house with shiny gold objects, or the future of money.  Think.
legendary
Activity: 1260
Merit: 1019
Quote
just buy a little bit and diversify the rest... dont worry about the concerns they've been thought of before by thousands of very intelligent people, its no problem.
The question is: how to distinguish intelligent people from all others?
The answer: intelligent people have a paid advertisment in their signatures on forum
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