Topic: I no longer consider bitcoin as a decentralized currency... - page 4. (Read 6338 times)
I totally agree with the OP. What amazes me (and annoys me) is some people even trying to deny the obvious. If the latest high-end ASIC's were readily available for anyone to buy like CPU's and graphics cards are, then OK, I'd swallow the argument that people with more money to invest could buy more ASIC's and then profit more because they invested more. The thing is, they aren't available. How many people got scammed and lost money with the Butterfly Labs (and probably other companies) pre-orders? If it were up to me, I'd change the mining algorithm to something ASIC-hostile and fork Bitcoin. Since this is unlikely to happen, I'll be rooting for other coins to grow popular enough to take bitcoin's place.
I actually tend to agree with you, Maidak.
I think some of you guys are missing the point here. The bottom line is that pretty soon a lot of miners are liable to just give up and sell their equipment off and we will be left with a handful of massive datacenters doing all of the mining. So instead of hundreds of thousands or even millions of individuals all around the globe mining, you will have consolidation occurring until perhaps a few hundred companies with massive datacenters/farms are doing all of the mining. How will that be any different from banks, visa/MC, etc?
This is one of the reasons I don't see decentralized anymore. I do my part to let every business owner know about BTC, costs nothing to start accepting no chargebacks and little fees. I've let everyone from my local doughnut shop to gun dealers I even offer free help to get them setup and started as well as free advertising.
In my eyes anymore there is nothing decentralized about bitcoin anymore. Out of everyone who replied I still haven't seen anything that proves otherwise.
You have huge data centers seen here and cloud hashing data centers like cex.io or the hardware manufacturers that only ship out the hardware that YOU pre-ordered which those funds were more then likely used to pay for development, production then "tested" for a few months prior to shipping.
How about an exchange funded by the bitcoiners. I've been a self employed and a entrepreneur for 8 years now who can say with confidence my success was because of my honesty which in the online world of commerce is hard to find. I only know a few who haven't been taken over by greed.
What bitcoin needs is less greed and more open source. How about a open source ASIC chip not funded by a pre-order that you own no rights to or even considered a share holder. I would love to setup a project like this and confident it would be successful but who else here is on the same page as I am? I still have faith in bitcoin for the simple fact that it puts faith in the merchant. Back to the subject I'm waiting for someone to tell me what is decentralized about BTC anymore.
I do not know of too many businesses where you can buy hardware for $500 and have a payback within six months. There is hardware out there that is profitable now if you know where to look. The barrier to entry is quite low.
I do not know of anything out there that can be purchased for $500 and used to mine bitcoin, that will break even let alone provide ROI in six months.
The volatility is killing it - small deviations are fine but not the huge drops and rises we see every few months
There's nothing you can really do about that. We're just going to hope it can settle eventually, but I'm not sure it ever will.
Volatility will only settle if there will be better coin distribution (eg. big holders selling). It's completely natural at this point.
@OP: Bitcoin is far from centralized. There are a lot of mining companies and small time miners as well, not to mention the distribution of full nodes.
The volatility is killing it - small deviations are fine but not the huge drops and rises we see every few months
There's nothing you can really do about that. We're just going to hope it can settle eventually, but I'm not sure it ever will.
Mining is being attacked and the OP makes some good points. But Mining has been hard for the average person to get into for a good while. I think it is a bit of an overstatement to say Bitcoin is now decentralized but I like seeing the topic being discussed.
So you're saying that it is now centralized? 
Mining is being attacked and the OP makes some good points. But Mining has been hard for the average person to get into for a good while. I think it is a bit of an overstatement to say Bitcoin is now decentralized but I like seeing the topic being discussed.
I'm not saying I have lost any faith but it is lost its touch since I was introduced in 09 if anything it has become monopolized.
What is killing the bitcoin are the multi-million dollar data-centers dedicated to mining, little to no acceptance as an alternative payment method, nearly impossible to keep up with difficulty increases, and limited peer to peer exchanges.
Tell me otherwise?
What is killing the bitcoin are the multi-million dollar data-centers dedicated to mining, little to no acceptance as an alternative payment method, nearly impossible to keep up with difficulty increases, and limited peer to peer exchanges.
Tell me otherwise?
I definitely hear what you are saying...it feels like we are stepping into a completely different era for bitcoin. It has moved from its libertarian type crowd, to a much more corporate era. It is a double edged sword, because if we all want prices to rise, then we need corporate America (and rest of world) getting involved. While that happens, it steers away from what a good amount of people want bitcoin to stand for.
time was never better for it.
Bitcoin mining is a market that has almost no barrier to entry and as such the most efficient will win. That could be anyone willing to work hard and invest in infrastructure.
Really, no barrier to entry? Last I checked it was basically impossible to even clear ROI on any kind of bitcoin mining equipment unless you start talking about spending 5-6 figures and even then it's doubtful.
I do not know of too many businesses where you can buy hardware for $500 and have a payback within six months. There is hardware out there that is profitable now if you know where to look. The barrier to entry is quite low.
I don't like ASICs yet I own them. For a while in December things looked bad as huge farms gobbled everything up and small miners could not really buy anything good. But now there are two players out there selling ASICs freely and honestly and their customers (many just little guys) are now more then 20% of the hashrate. That combined with the fact that the BIG FARMS are not one but really several totally unconnected businesses so the hashrate is actually MORE decentralized than it was in December.
No one is giving you super easy profits anymore, sorry. Mining is now hard but that does not make it centralized.
Thank you lol, I'm so sick of everyone posting the same picture of Bitcoin's growth from the last few years as though it is somehow evidence that it will go up forever. We have been losing ground for a solid 5 months or so now.
Bitcoin mining is a market that has almost no barrier to entry and as such the most efficient will win. That could be anyone willing to work hard and invest in infrastructure.
Really, no barrier to entry? Last I checked it was basically impossible to even clear ROI on any kind of bitcoin mining equipment unless you start talking about spending 5-6 figures and even then it's doubtful.
Mining bitcoin is an investment. Investments usually aren't under 4-5 figures.
I'm not saying I have lost any faith but it is lost its touch since I was introduced in 09 if anything it has become monopolized.
What is killing the bitcoin are the multi-million dollar data-centers dedicated to mining, little to no acceptance as an alternative payment method, nearly impossible to keep up with difficulty increases, and limited peer to peer exchanges.
Tell me otherwise?
What is killing the bitcoin are the multi-million dollar data-centers dedicated to mining, little to no acceptance as an alternative payment method, nearly impossible to keep up with difficulty increases, and limited peer to peer exchanges.
Tell me otherwise?
you understand, but too late.
Everyone talks about centralization, but I say the rules of the game are the same for big players too, and I don't see anyone prevailing. The only difference is that regular user of Bitcoin will have to buy it, not mine it, but it's irellevant to me actually.
Bitcoin mining is a market that has almost no barrier to entry and as such the most efficient will win. That could be anyone willing to work hard and invest in infrastructure.
Really, no barrier to entry? Last I checked it was basically impossible to even clear ROI on any kind of bitcoin mining equipment unless you start talking about spending 5-6 figures and even then it's doubtful.
But try starting a bank or even buying an ATM. Then you will see the product of decades of unholy laws and regulation that do nothing except secure the entrenched powers of big banks.
What is killing the bitcoin are the multi-million dollar data-centers dedicated to mining
and difficulty raise ...
and business plan on professional data center crash ...
and people that mining with little system stay ...
i love bitcoin.
https://bitcoinwisdom.com/bitcoin/difficulty
Nothing is "killing" Bitcoin, OP is either misinformed or trolling.
Look at Bitcoin fiat's exchange value on a logarithmic scale spanning 3+ years, and you will see it's doing remarkably well.
Look at Bitcoin fiat's exchange value on a logarithmic scale spanning 3+ years, and you will see it's doing remarkably well.
couldn't have said it better.
i think we need to realise that bitcoin is now more tan just people mining them and selling them or trading them for goods. alot of people actually do use bitcoin as a currency
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