Topic: I really dont think bitcoin is going to be a day2day currency - page 3. (Read 4172 times)

This. Merchants will also probably use a payment processor service which will insure against bounced payments and such.


 

You clearly have never used bitcoin nor do you understand how it functions.



This is my dream... Forget gold standard (just like the governments have done), the day 'bitcoin standard' becomes common place and treated as a worldwide currency... I can see it now; universally accepted paper money backed by REAL bitcoin (not government lies), pre-paid debit cards containing REAL bitcoin (yes albeit controlled and held by by a third party, all the smaller transactions will be done off-chain) , heck why not have credit cards, loans, mortgages, 5% interest on deposits... Yes, i know i'm basically describing a bank, but the big difference is everyone is no longer relying on only a fiat currency that the world governments can print/devalue at will.  

Obviously the lending and interest on deposits part of this idea would only work if the value of bitcoin remained stable compared to the rest of the fait currencies, which is a problem i guess, so the only solution would be for bitcoin to become the only trusted currency (which isn't impossible, but not likely any time soon) - wages, taxes and all sales/purchases transacted in bitcoin, only then would that work.. I know it's unlikey but not impossible... i suppose that's why i called it a 'dream'.

It's a shame there are so many people who will blindly use fiat currency without stopping to question, why year upon year does my money become worth LESS AND LESS??

Anything cheap- you can get by with zero confirmations. A broadcast is enough if you are buying a bottle of milk. Remember the number of people who scam using Checks or Credit Cards or counterfeit money is quite high- higher then the risk of a double spends.

Anything expensive, you can be willing to wait for more confirmations. If you are spending $100000 on a Lamborigni, no one will fault you for enjoying a cup of coffee while waiting to hit 3 confirmations. You can fill out the paperwork during that time. Or $2 Million dollar home, you can wait 30 minutes filling out the insurance or popping open a bottle of bubbly to celebrate.

Everything in proportion to what you are doing. If it's $1 transaction a broadcast is enough, if it's $1million dollars then you have the time to wait for 6 confirmations. If you don't- something shady is 'probably' going on anyway, and most people spending a million dollars won't fall into the category.

do you want to use credit card for cars, dollar for tv and JPY for milk?
if the answer is yes, then maybe your way is doable:)

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Why would you buy a bottle of milk with something that costs 1000 USD?  Bitcoin may have been intended for small value items originally, but that is no longer the case.  Today it makes more sense to use Bitcoin to buy houses and Lamborghini's (yes they accept Bitcoin as payment now).  While Litecoin could be used to buy televisions and household appliances, and perhaps a faster more lightweight coin like Feathercoin could be used for everyday items such as milk.  Think of it as a tool, you 'could' drive to the shop in a Truck/18 wheel tractor trailer unit but it would make more sense to drive a sports car (you have to use the right tool for the job)
[/quote]

Thank you and yes I won't put some bullshit here before I do the research and check wiki.
And no I don't think the problem is solved.

Why would you buy a bottle of milk with something that costs 1000 USD?  Bitcoin may have been intended for small value items originally, but that is no longer the case.  Today it makes more sense to use Bitcoin to buy houses and Lamborghinis (yes they accept Bitcoin as payment now).  While Litecoin could be used to buy televisions and household appliances, and perhaps a faster more lightweight coin like Feathercoin could be used for everyday items such as milk.  Think of it as a tool, you "could" drive to the shop in a Truck/18 wheel tractor trailer unit but it would make more sense to drive a sports car (you have to use the right tool for the job)

Step 1: Learn how to use the Search function.
Step 2: Maybe check the wiki.

You don't have to wait for confirmations, especially not for a bottle of milk.

Maybe when you sell a Lamborghini you may need to wait for 1 or 2 confirmations, but anything less than $1000 you can just do with unconfirmed transaction.

The changes of someone messing up with the transaction is much smaller than the change of someone committing chargeback fraud, and you don't hear anyone complaining about needed to wait for 20 years for a VISA transaction because of chargeback risks

i love how people exadjurate confirm times required to process a transaction

imagine bitcoin replaced the common banking system (we know it wont, but it can certainly work alongside)

people can store their funds in safety deposit boxes (personal wallet clients)

for ease of use they would put their funds into bank accounts/card issuer EG a certain amount of satoshi's into a third party escrow services/offchain transaction service that's pre-confirmed at deposit, allowing for instant transactions.

then the third party service/bank can move funds across the world instantly to compensate the retailer/recipient and they can be sure its confirmed at the very worse 10 minutes.

I won't be surprised if we see some wallet software/pluggin designed specially for a convenient double spend to emerge. If it's easy to use and people can do it anonymously/without consequence, then please expect to see the dark side of humankind.

While for credit card you got your credit records, but for bitcoin, no.

About the attached id, that may work however it do need the goverment to step in.

I think the question is better said like this:

How can we make bitcoin transaction quick enough to support a day2day use, without involvment of the gov or any kinds of third party, to ensure you can do it anywhere globally, and still keep it anonymously?

Does it stand any chance as a night2night currency? Perhaps in the grey market on thedark web that's only roamed in the odd hours?

You need to understand bitcoin to make assumptions like that. Waiting time is an agreement between buyer and seller. The transactions is acutally seen on the network within seconds, so for a pint of milk, retailers could simply wait until the transaction is "seen" and take the risk that the transaction is undone. For buying a car or a house, yes you might have to wait 10-30 minutes, or even the full hour. As each block is generated the likelihood of the transaction becoming undone get exponentially lower, esp with the huge hashing power of the bitcoin network.

I think the idea is that it is the same as credit card fraud. It is a possibility for credit card fraud to occur but people do not perform it often and thus checks are not issued to verify credit cards every time you swipe. In the same sense, a small to medium size bitcoin transaction could allow confidence after the payment was shown but confirmations had not occurred. Alternatively, alongside a bitcoin payment a personal identifier/agreement could be attached to insure repercussions if a payment was somehow faked. Two potential resolutions to that issue.

The confirmation time is way too long, that's the Achilles' heel.

Imagine you wanna buy a bottle of milk, would you like to wait in the counter for 50mins just to get 5 confirmations? That's ridiculous.

So there is the off chain transaction. We need a trusted third party for that to work right? Then what's the point to creat a p2p cryptocurrency? Why don't we just use some company's own crypto currency instead? what's the difference?

Does anyone has the idea of how to really solve this problem?



Edit:

I think the question is better said like this:

How can we make bitcoin transaction quick enough to support a day2day use, without involvment of the gov or any kinds of third party, to ensure you can do it anywhere globally, and still keep it anonymously?