Topic: I think Ethereum will be finished after this attack - page 6. (Read 15602 times)

It seems there will be 51% attackes on the Ethereum ETC network:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4vf7fj/51_etc_attack_pool_mining_eth_until_hashrate/?st=irabq392&sh=15d962bf

So for the ETC after it is converted from ETH, it can transfer freely in the ETC network and cannot be transferred back into ETH network. Is that right?

Actually, if you are only looking at one single chain, and don't even consider the other one, of course nothing of all this should be your worry.  It is only if you want to deal on both chains that you should be careful, and then, the most important danger is if you are dealing on the lower value chain (here ETC) that, by accident, you also don't emit an unwanted transaction on the more expensive chain (here ETH).

If you are on a mining pool, you should of course VERIFY that the coins they give you are indeed freshly mined ones.  But in as much as they are, you can use them to distinguish transactions.  People might even be interested in buying some from you at a premium price just to get some "distinguishing coins", although that would have been mainly just after the fork.

You can see it this way: suppose that I personally fork the Bitcoin block chain and I continue my private fork in the basement.  With bitcoin that's infeasible because of the way difficulty adapts slowly, so I'd be in for 5 years of mining the next block in my basement, but let us assume that I have my forked bitcoin chain in the basement for the sake of argument.    That wouldn't, of course, affect anybody, even though all "replay attacks" are valid, simply because all other bitcoin holders don't give a shit of what happens on MY bitcoin fork.  Probably my private bitcoins would have a market price of, I don't know, 100 000 dinocoins for a pizza or so.  However, if my neighbours and I do a dinocoin transaction, we have to be careful not to also do a genuine bitcoin transaction on the main chain, because otherwise, the pizza is going to be hugely expensive.  However, any other bitcoin holder will only do transactions on the main chain, and actually, these transactions will also be copied on my chain, but nobody cares.

That explanation is quite reassuring. I am still mining, but I will just mine one chain the ETH, so that will not be affected.

No, absolutely not.  From the moment that you do a transaction that contains even just some dust of newly mined coins on one chain, that transaction is not valid on the other chain and you are from that point on, with that address, only on one chain.

With ETC/ETH, you can also use a contract (there's a blog post by Vitalik explaining this).

But in general, on any block chain, things go like this:

Pre-chain: you have UTXO ("addresses") of which you possess the secret key that can sign transactions.

If you sign a transaction using ONLY these UTXO with that secret key, you are making a new transaction to new UTXO (the "recipient address"). 

On both chains, your signature will be valid (some people call this automatic feat a "replay attack", I wonder why), and your transaction will be included if you do not pay attention.  If that is the case, then on both chains, the former UTXO is not unspend any more, and the new address is now an UTXO.  Warning: any signature on any chain of THIS POST-fork transaction is ALSO VALID on both chains and will ALSO be included on both chains ! 

So what can you do (in general, on any forked chain, not just ETH/ETC):

NEWLY MINED coins that appear in blocks after the split are of course only valid UTXO on one single chain: they are not considered valid on the other chain, because these are coinbase transactions in blocks that do not appear on the other chain.  *if you can get hold of some of these, even a minor amount* and you now sign a transaction with a COMBINED INPUT containing some of this mined coin dust and your former coins, then THIS TRANSACTION and its signature will of course NOT be valid on the other chain.

So this transaction will NOT turn the former UTXO into a spend output on the other chain, because no valid transaction uses it.

And from that moment on, the resulting new UTXO on the first chain will also only appear and be valid on one chain.  From that point on, whatever you do with those UTXO, you will never have to worry again about them initiating a transaction on the other chain because these UTXO don't exist on the other chain.

So in as much as coins will get more and more mixed with newly mined coins on each branch, this phenomenon of valid transactions on both chains will disappear.

Does it mean in order to avoid the replay attack, we need to kill one chain so that there is only one chain to do the business.

There's no such thing as a "replay attack".  It is the normal working of a forked chain, that valid signed transactions on both chains, are included on both chains.

The replay attack is real. I tried to send the ETC with the nonfork chain, the ETH money also disappeared.

Do.you think the emergence of the additional forked coin will further discuss the total network hash rate? If the replay attack.shit is real, then a fork of ETC might.be required.

Yes. This will not end until one of the chains becomes the only chain. It is in the hands of the miners now. I foresee a mining arms race between the original and the fork in the months to come. Right now the miners of the fork are in the comfortable lead. But they will be in panic once the hash power of the original chain becomes closer and closer to the has power of the fork. This will start the arms race.

If this has taught me anything, this whole bananas Ethereum debacle that is still very much in progress, is that you can't rationalize with a cult. The following on this coin had a ' drink the coolaid' vibe. You couldn't reason with people that had normally saner heads, and the percentage of trolls.that came out to play should be indicative of the amount of fanboys. So no, this won't die, come.fork, knife or spatula; this thing has adherents. It's here to stay.

No. This battle will not be big enough for anybody that is not following the cryptoshere to notice. I think sometimes we are full of ourselves in thinking that all this will be really big and everyone will notice. This might come but not until 10 years or more. The bitcoiners are even struggling to let bitcoin be known until now.

SO its now the fight of ETH and ETC and BTC is out of the scene? LOLZ
I wouldn't be surprise if both ETC and ETH will arrive at a certain point where the battle can shake the world and make a buzz to which all those who are new to crypto will take sides but left BTC behind.

Giving them the same shit they shovel, getting sick of using qualifiers and logic.

Acting as though you know something to be a fact when you are speculating is arrogant and inaccurate. How can we truly know if we simply do not?
Let time and the community amongst other factors show us what will happen to ETH or ETC.

Then we may learn

The DAO fund holder will fund development of ETC.

ETC will dump, esp as other exchanges open up ETC trading and allow people to access coins that they would not have the expertise to do on their own. After the selling pressure the exchanges are causing through enhanced liquidity is gone, I think the price might start to move upward long-term. But slowly. And that's still a big uncertainty.

So if the DAO hacker is not involved in the ETC pump, the ETC pump will finish soon, and dump will follow/

If the DAO hacker is not part of the ETC team or not behind it, there is a possibility that he will attack it again.

The price is even higher now. What will the price be when the DAO hacker starts to sell the 3+ million ETC?