I warned you - page 3. | Bitcointalksearch.org

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legendary

Activity: 1358

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https://gliph.me/hUF

Quote from: turvarya on November 03, 2014, 09:38:10 AM

Quote from: redsn0w on November 03, 2014, 08:35:37 AM

Quote from: Brooker on November 03, 2014, 07:09:52 AM

Quote from: turvarya on November 03, 2014, 06:09:26 AM

Quote from: hodap on November 03, 2014, 05:28:36 AM

There is no such thing as manipulation for a peer to peer currency.

Traders around the world will buy if there is a perceived discount for bitcoin.

Exchanges are not peer to peer ...

Exactly. I'm afraid there's not much we can do about price manipulation and it really is disheartening. There's no way to tell what the current value of bitcoin is and even the peak price looks to have been manipulated to there.

Exactly , I agree with #turvarya . It is only a question of manipulation and the exchanges don't help the "peer-to-peer" idea.

On the good site: You can make peer-to-peer-trades with openbazar(when it has finished) and I have heard of another peer-to-peer-exchange-project(but forgot the name)

You already can make peer to peer trades today. That is not the problem. The problem is the price discovery. Because even person to person trades will be based on an exchange rate / index published somewhere (give or take a few percent).

roslinpl

legendary

Activity: 2212

Merit: 1199

Quote from: franky1 on November 03, 2014, 12:19:22 AM

first time i have ever had to agree with a link moriarty posts..

PHP based exchanges are very much fake valuations

Indeed I wanted to say same thing.

But funny is that their manipulation will be not possible if people will stop dumping.

lightningmccoin

newbie

Activity: 56

Merit: 0

Quote from: Valeey on November 03, 2014, 03:22:56 AM

My friends warned me that bitcoin is bull shit 3 years ago, can i trust them? the sad story is I believe them.

Then why are you still here?

bitllionaire

legendary

Activity: 1120

Merit: 1000

Quote from: superresistant on November 03, 2014, 08:34:51 AM

Quote from: Tzupy on November 03, 2014, 08:09:43 AM

I doubt that exchanges are manipulating the price down, on the contrary they are interested to pump it up but can't do much now.
The bubble has to properly deflate and then the Willy clones will pump the price up, after the last ATH will be broken new bagholders will rush in.

Chinese exchanges are nothing but exchange, there is no trading fees.
Their profit come from something else...
People deposit their BTC, the exchange sell the BTC for FIAT and give a % interest (in BTC) on the account.
The Bitcoins does not exist but it is so improbable that people withdraw that the scam can go on for a while.

Example :
I deposit 100 BTC.
The exchange sell my BTC for 1000 USD/BTC, they get 100K USD in da pocket.
I do not withdraw or sell my BTC because the exchange give me interest in BTC.
They push the price down to 900 USD/BTC with totally fake volume.
I now have 100 BTC + 2 BTC interest on my account.
The thing is, my 102 BTC are now worth 91800 USD so I lost 8200 USD to earn 2 BTC.
Repeat.
Profit !! (the exchange, not me)

They'll keep doing it until Bitcoin is worth zero unless we stop them.

if the price goes down is because someone has sold bitcoin to fiat at that price
profit of exchanges is in bitcoin volume

turvarya

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Quote from: redsn0w on November 03, 2014, 08:35:37 AM

Quote from: Brooker on November 03, 2014, 07:09:52 AM

Quote from: turvarya on November 03, 2014, 06:09:26 AM

Quote from: hodap on November 03, 2014, 05:28:36 AM

There is no such thing as manipulation for a peer to peer currency.

Traders around the world will buy if there is a perceived discount for bitcoin.

Exchanges are not peer to peer ...

Exactly. I'm afraid there's not much we can do about price manipulation and it really is disheartening. There's no way to tell what the current value of bitcoin is and even the peak price looks to have been manipulated to there.

Exactly , I agree with #turvarya . It is only a question of manipulation and the exchanges don't help the "peer-to-peer" idea.

On the good site: You can make peer-to-peer-trades with openbazar(when it has finished) and I have heard of another peer-to-peer-exchange-project(but forgot the name)

redsn0w

legendary

Activity: 1778

Merit: 1043

#Free market

Quote from: Brooker on November 03, 2014, 07:09:52 AM

Quote from: turvarya on November 03, 2014, 06:09:26 AM

Quote from: hodap on November 03, 2014, 05:28:36 AM

There is no such thing as manipulation for a peer to peer currency.

Traders around the world will buy if there is a perceived discount for bitcoin.

Exchanges are not peer to peer ...

Exactly. I'm afraid there's not much we can do about price manipulation and it really is disheartening. There's no way to tell what the current value of bitcoin is and even the peak price looks to have been manipulated to there.

Exactly , I agree with #turvarya . It is only a question of manipulation and the exchanges don't help the "peer-to-peer" idea.

superresistant

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1131

Quote from: Tzupy on November 03, 2014, 08:09:43 AM

I doubt that exchanges are manipulating the price down, on the contrary they are interested to pump it up but can't do much now.
The bubble has to properly deflate and then the Willy clones will pump the price up, after the last ATH will be broken new bagholders will rush in.

Chinese exchanges are nothing but exchange, there is no trading fees.
Their profit come from something else...
People deposit their BTC, the exchange sell the BTC for FIAT and give a % interest (in BTC) on the account.
The Bitcoins does not exist but it is so improbable that people withdraw that the scam can go on for a while.

Example :
I deposit 100 BTC.
The exchange sell my BTC for 1000 USD/BTC, they get 100K USD in da pocket.
I do not withdraw or sell my BTC because the exchange give me interest in BTC.
They push the price down to 900 USD/BTC with totally fake volume.
I now have 100 BTC + 2 BTC interest on my account.
The thing is, my 102 BTC are now worth 91800 USD so I lost 8200 USD to earn 2 BTC.
Repeat.
Profit !! (the exchange, not me)

They'll keep doing it until Bitcoin is worth zero unless we stop them.

BitUsher

legendary

Activity: 994

Merit: 1035

Quote from: Neg on November 03, 2014, 08:13:10 AM

They could manipulate it to buy more then do the opposite and dump. Can't trust anybody in the bitcoin game now. Far too many scammers and crooks just looking for a quick profit.

When an exchange does this how do they fulfill orders of users who decide to buy ultimately?
I.E.... Say they manipulate their price index to reflect an unnaturally low Bitcoin price with the intent of shaking weak hands into selling their coins cheaper. What happens if the real buyers during this fake price dip out-number the real sellers?

One advantage an exchange has is to assume that a certain percentage of buy and sell orders will not be cancelled and than use that knowledge to strategize ways of profiting between these orders. The way for clients to protect against this is make immediate blind orders and enough fake orders that are cancelled at the last moment to throw off any insider trading algorithm an exchange uses.

gadman2

legendary

Activity: 978

Merit: 1001

Selling bitcoin, 1200$ each.

BayAreaCoins

legendary

Activity: 4004

Merit: 1250

Owner at AltQuick.com

Quote from: Neg on November 03, 2014, 08:13:10 AM

Quote from: Tzupy on November 03, 2014, 08:09:43 AM

I doubt that exchanges are manipulating the price down, on the contrary they are interested to pump it up but can't do much now.
The bubble has to properly deflate and then the Willy clones will pump the price up, after the last ATH will be broken new bagholders will rush in.

They could manipulate it to buy more then do the opposite and dump. Can't trust anybody in the bitcoin game now. Far too many scammers and crooks just looking for a quick profit.

Mmmmm love it Tongue

Neg

full member

Activity: 224

Merit: 100

Quote from: Tzupy on November 03, 2014, 08:09:43 AM

I doubt that exchanges are manipulating the price down, on the contrary they are interested to pump it up but can't do much now.
The bubble has to properly deflate and then the Willy clones will pump the price up, after the last ATH will be broken new bagholders will rush in.

They could manipulate it to buy more then do the opposite and dump. Can't trust anybody in the bitcoin game now. Far too many scammers and crooks just looking for a quick profit.

Tzupy

legendary

Activity: 2170

Merit: 1094

I doubt that exchanges are manipulating the price down, on the contrary they are interested to pump it up but can't do much now.
The bubble has to properly deflate and then the Willy clones will pump the price up, after the last ATH will be broken new bagholders will rush in.

BitUsher

legendary

Activity: 994

Merit: 1035

Quote from: arnuschky on November 03, 2014, 07:10:38 AM

Does anyone have a summary of the btc prices on distributed exchanges? That would settle the matter, I guess.

http://www.coindesk.com/price/

Bitfinex
Bitstamp
BTC-e
LakeBTC

BitUsher

legendary

Activity: 994

Merit: 1035

Exchanges can manipulate price in the short term but as long as there is liquidity where people can withdraw their funds in fiat or bitcoin the exchanges have to be generally accurate of the market demands.

The manipulation you were seeing with Mtgox was afforded by the delays and outright prevention of withdrawal of first fiat and than Bitcoin.

arnuschky

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 502

Does anyone have a summary of the btc prices on distributed exchanges? That would settle the matter, I guess.

Brooker

sr. member

Activity: 274

Merit: 250

Quote from: turvarya on November 03, 2014, 06:09:26 AM

Quote from: hodap on November 03, 2014, 05:28:36 AM

There is no such thing as manipulation for a peer to peer currency.

Traders around the world will buy if there is a perceived discount for bitcoin.

Exchanges are not peer to peer ...

Exactly. I'm afraid there's not much we can do about price manipulation and it really is disheartening. There's no way to tell what the current value of bitcoin is and even the peak price looks to have been manipulated to there.

arnuschky

hero member

Activity: 518

Merit: 502

Quote from: franky1 on November 03, 2014, 12:19:22 AM

PHP based exchanges are very much fake valuations

What does this have to do with the programming language the exchange is written in? Huh

Q7

sr. member

Activity: 448

Merit: 250

Explain how this is possible. Are they the one responsible for the price drop by putting tons of btc in the open market and selling cheap?

turvarya

hero member

Activity: 714

Merit: 500

Quote from: hodap on November 03, 2014, 05:28:36 AM

There is no such thing as manipulation for a peer to peer currency.

Traders around the world will buy if there is a perceived discount for bitcoin.

Exchanges are not peer to peer ...

alc

full member

Activity: 129

Merit: 100

Quote from: LeChatNoir on November 03, 2014, 03:59:52 AM

So if the price doesn't move accordingly to the "wave theory" then it's manipulated? LOL

This.

That article uses a lot of words to say very little of substance. All it amounts to is a hunch.

Topic: I warned you - page 3. (Read 5586 times)