Topic: I wish to trial a content subscription system with BTC for media content (Read 2223 times)

Hmm interesting feedback.I guess I'll have to look at more Pay Per view style methods as it looks like lifetime subscriptions may not meet the needs of consumers. The way I see though is that offering a good,consistent user experience is important.That's why I thought the one off fee for access to all content would be better as once the person pays the fee,that person would have a lifetime of access to all content (existing and upcoming). I'm rather interested in knowing more about the 'all you can eat' type models as well as Per per view.

I do think that people are moving away from subscriptions so I'll need to make sure my offerings can keep up. I think the best thing to do is offer both subscription (tiered) as well as pay per view style options so that (nearly) everyone can be happy.

Thanks for the useful info on how long a 1 confirm transaction can take DeathAndTaxes.

Avg 1-confirm times is 10 minutes (assuming 100% of miners include tx in next block) however block time variance is somewhat significant.  About 25% of the time it will take 15 minutes or longer.  About 10% of the time it will take 22 minutes or longer.  About 5% of the time it will take 30 minutes or longer.  About 1% of the time it will take 45 minutes or longer.   The longest stretch between blocks I have ever seen was 3.5 hours.

0-confirm times will be roughly 1 to 5 seconds depending on network propagation.  You likely would want a custom solution which relays the tx directly to major hashing pools and then waits 20 sec to see if a double spend is forwarded.

The vast vast majority of people would rather pay 2 bitcents than figure out how to spoof a 0 conf. Your downside isn't even the 2 cents it's at most 2 cents, that assumes a 100% chance that the attacker would have bought the thing if he had to wait 1 confirm. You will absolutely lose 10% or more business for making people wait 10+ minutes.

I have no love for the Times, but this is unfair.

The downside of a lifetime subscription is that existing users can't exert any financial pressure on the provider. Normally if quality suffers some existing users will buy less, and just the threat of that keeps quality up. There is a reason we don't see many "All you can eat forever" diners. Granted content consumption is very different.

Another downside is that no one knows how long 'lifetime' really is. How long do most brands last? And this is a downside for both parties. You can't charge nearly what 100 years of good content would be worth because no one believes you'll really produce good content for 100 years. But people will rightly be reluctant to pay even the value of 1 year upfront.

I think 1 confirm is the effective solution as there's security as well as speed.I wonder how long a 1 confirm would take over the BTC network for a transaction compared with 0 confirm (insecure)? Thanks for the extra info DeathAndTaxes

A D&T PSA:

film2240 0-confirm is possible but be sure you understand the potential risks, losses, and countermeasures.   It is possible to be double spent but there are mechanisms to detect that double spend attempt.  Accepting 0-confirm isn't something to just do on a whim.  I was just pointing that properly implemented allowing micro tx based on 0-confirms is viable.  No need to have user pay 2 cents for an article and then have to wait 60 minutes to make sure they aren't a thief.

So just to clarify,the BTC system means that the money will still arrive for me but speed up transactions for customers who pay a membership fee? That's nice

Consider it done.Suggestion will be implemented as soon as I'm able (wait for 0 confirms in my client before giving the passcodes instead of 1 or more confirms for small transactions).

I find these discussions very useful but question is who's willing to be the first content producer interested in being part of this. I'm now opening up spaces for the first 5 content producers to come forward. The icing on the cake for you is a 1% flat rate commission from content you make available for life (instead of the usual 5%) and an automatic entry to the Dream Islands Lottery (BTC).PM me if interested. I look forward to seeing what content you can offer.

No reason you can't use 0-confirm for mBTC sized tx.

That was certainly interesting.Looking at the Xanadu project. Just saw the wiki page so far so don't know too much about it but it sounds rather complex for the problem it claims to solve.

In reponse to your other comment,it's good to know that people are willing to pay up for content if need be or if people just like content. Still what I plan to offer is a lot cheaper than the example (The Times) that gorgo1 mentioned. They love ripping you off. That is useful for content providers who prefer pay-per view for content through my service rather than a tiered one off membership fee.

I do forsee some challenges to get this off the ground:
1.A web service to host content
2.A system for rights management of content (pass codes,etc.None of that DRM rubbish though)
3.An easy to use and code BTC payment button (I like the one where you click the button and a box appears above it without changing the webpage.This then shows the price,BTC address and QR code.That's the system I prefer)
4.A way to manage the giving out of different pass codes to different levels of membership and for pay-per-view content (most of it will be availble by 1 off fee but some content providers like the pay per view model)
5.A way to manage commissions I make off Pay Per view (PPV) content while making sure that the providers get an income as well.It's a small comission to keep the site running.
6.If I'm unable to get this off the ground,I'll simply sell the licensing instead but still retain ownership rights (Think of win 7 when you install it,the agreement says,you buy a license to use the software)
7.Getting content providers on board.
8.Getting investors onboard.

I'm already working on a screening process of which content will be entered into the content subscription system.Only things that pass quality screening are allowed into the subscription. The subscription service only applies to content designated for the Dream Islands Publishing brand and system.Look for the Dream Island Publishing brand on paid subscription content as the quality of these will be much better than free content at the moment.

I'm looking for 2 things.
1.5 interested people in testing out the system
2.A writer who is interested in being a test content producer (this will be in the form of an article.PM me for more details if interested)

Since I've pretty much sorted out a model for payment methods (for now,may need a revisit later), I'll be working with content providers and contribute myself to the content as well.The topics need to be diverse and not just fixed onto Bitcoin related topics so that a wider audience will take my content subscription service more seriously and be more inclined to buy content.

IMHO, the main problem you should solve first is the quality and amount of content you have. As what SEO's say, 'content is king'; you can trouble with the payment methods after you've acquired a decent amount of content.

Just my $0.02

Oh that was an idea that was floating around.That will only apply to content providers who choose to make their content pay per view through my service.The main thing will be that most content providers will feel happy using the main 1 off membership fee to hopefully subsidise their content and keep the site running. I just got a PM from Mt Gox support.I can't divulge the message as of yet but will be in talks in a whiles time. Content providers who are more 'upscale' and wish to charge more than what most people would consider reasonable should use the pay per view option so that the rest of the consumers can enjoy a one off low flat rate for the majority of content. I have to at least be able to account for what some people who make content are like (they like to charge a lot).

I think a one off membership fee for the content delivery system will keep things at an accessible price for everyone while giving people the option to access even more content (pay per view content) for an extra fee (depending on the content provider they go to for this as they can all charge different rates.)

Keeping an eye on the market conditions will be important as well to ensure the success of this project.

I guess I am confused now...

You said that a lifetime subscription gives you access to everything published on your site, but now say that there will be pay-per-view content as well?

DeathAndTaxes I love that suggestion.I plan to implement this suggestion as soon as the trial testing is done. I will add this to complement my lifetime membership offerings.The pricing will change to reflect this. Since I can't program anything,I'll have to rely on my book keeping to ensure that clients will be able to benefit and pay up.

I will make sure that I can build another website to support this service to manage larger workloads. Blogs can only do so much (but this will be used as a testing ground for the service)

Bitcoin doesn't allow billing only owner can make payments.

You can however allow prepaid subscriptions.  i.e. 1 BTC = 90 days and when user logins they see a "topup" address and a counter (10 days remaining,  extend time by transfering more fund to 1BTCADRESSSe78393273289).

This is an important question as I do have plans for expansion from other content providers.Out of every sale from Pay per view content (as the details are still being worked out), I keep a 10% commission from every sale (not too much from the providers but still enough to fund further expansion) I'd love to have a few people invest a small amount of BTC and time into the system.I've tried the stock exchange equivalent for BTC but is difficult for me to use so I'll stick to selling investments on here.

I may consider adding a tiered structure membership system later on so that content providers will always get a more consistent cash flow as it is apparent (after some book keeping) that the 1BTC model may be unsustainable for the long term future,however the 1BTC flat rate will still be viable for the short to mid term.

I had a look at Matthew N Wright's BTC magazine and I felt that I can make a membership based content system that goes beyond frontiers of the e-magazines/print media world. I'd certainly love to hear feedback from people interested in: testing out the system, being a content provider, being a future customer when this launches fully later in the year (as the bugs have to ironed out first).

To sum up,I'll only take a 10% cut from each sale and the rest goes to the content providers themselves so there should be a good income from this if they get on board. To all interested people,can you help gather interest for this proposed service please as I could use some helpful beta testers to help expose and fix flaws as well as telling me what works,what people like about it and more importantly, what the quality of the content is.

I'm now looking for 5 volunteers to test out this service please. If people are willing to pay for the Bitcoin Magazine,then I think they'll pay for this service as well.If you are interested in volunteering,please post here and PM me as well so I can sort out the details,thank you.

Yes, thanks!

Oh, one other question... what compensation are you offering to content-providers?

I guess I didn't give the answer you wanted.I thought you meant what forms of content rather than what kinds that will be offered throughout the service.
Ok to clarify,the content will cover a wide range of topics.For example they could be:
1.Bitcoin related news,services etc.
2.Media,filmmaking, photography, music
3.General content topics
4.Computer related things
5.Technology related topics
6.Social networking
7.Artistic content
8.Any other topic people have interest in.
9.Mobile phone topics

So basically to answer your question, any topic that is of interest to people (but the content quality has to be high to make a membership worthwhile for consumers). Is this answer more helpful to you now?

I guess the only question that I didn't really get a satisfactory answer to is what kind of content are you offering?  Purely Bitcoin-related content, or any old content?

1.Life-time access is only offered at the moment as I feel I can deliver value to people in it's current state of the project. Unless you can tell me how to create a Direct Debit style subscription fee with Bitcoin,I can only offer a lifetime membership but I feel this pricing is much more competitive than nearly all media outlets that offer subscriptions.

2.Currently the offerings will be: articles (high quality), media items, stock images, films etc. This will of course expand as things develop more and the eco-system matures. I believe that people will be interested in paying for it simply because of the value I'm offering for the content available.

2b.I see a trend where more content will be paid for as more media outlets (The Times,etc.) start charging for content that was previously available for free.This is due to higher costs now in content delivery as well as content creation that is generally of high quality. I forsee a challenge where people are willing to pay a 'reasonable' membership/subscription fee to access the content. I also see a lot of average quality content on these forums and the majority of Bitcoin based media businesses. I want a wider adoption of Bitcoin and hte only way I see that being reality is for Bitcoin to be able to be used in more 'upscale' and more media friendly applications in order for the wider population to take bitcoin seriously and help to create new and exciting oppourtunities for creatives like myself as well as (hopefully) all content producers who aren't backed by big bucks.

2c.I also see a challenge in quality of content as well.I need to expand my media business as I feel Bitcoin and the (indie) media business can really benefit each other as well as pay (indie) content producers a fairer rate (no more of this bulk buying creative media items for peanuts business-that's got to end)

3.When the service matures some more, I do plan to have an auction style portion of the service where other authors/content prudcers who want a one off fee or per per view (depends on the licensing agreements in place with the various content producers who are happy to work with me on this service) so that not only can they get 'out there' with their content but generate income for both my service (through a very small,one off fee) and the rest of that goes to the content producer to help keep things running. This won't be up and running in the early days of the system as things take time to develop.

A call to all producers of content:
1.If you produce films,photos (stock or otherwise),write articles,stories,reviews,music/sounds or anything else you find that your potential customers and readers will use, can you all consider distributing your content via my upcoming service. To join, just reply to this thread as I recieve a lot of PMs everyday for other projects and it'll be easier for me to keep an eye on these requests more easily.
2.As this develops more to the run up of trial testing and public release, I want to be able to negotiate pricing,comissions to help keep the service running and the content that will be delivered to consumers.
3.Please encourage all interested parties,individuals,groups etc to reply to this thread so I can gauge interest and further improve the content delivery system.

If you are interested in this,please feel free to reply here,make suggestions (keep them constructive please) or even just tip me if you want.
Thank you.

A couple of questions...
1)  Why do you call it a subscription when the only option is life-time access?  I'd call that something more along the lines of a membership.  To me, a subscription is something that you pay for on a regular basis, and access is revoked upon non-payment.
2)  What kind of content are you offering, and why do you believe anyone would be interested in paying for it?
3)  Are you building a service that other people can offer their goods through as well?

Any feedback to offer guys?

Also keep your eyes peeled and subscribe to this thread for further developments.

In about 2 weeks time there will be a chance for beta testers to try out the content delivery system. The first round of testing will be limited to 5 people.

There's a bonus in store for people who are looking to try things out at this stage:
1.A lifetime subscription rate of just 0.35BTC (reduced from 1BTC typical one-off payment for a lifetime subscription) for access to all content produced under the brand Dream Islands Publishing.
2.This entitles you to an automatic entry in the Dream Islands lottery here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/dream-islands-lottery-win-up-to-20btc-jackpot-67511  (PM me so I can give a ticket number to you and also to take me up on this testing offer)

Who's interested in testing this out with the perks offered? I really want to improve the way I can distribute paid content via BTC to end users and customers.

To take me up on the testing,PM me so I can accept payment,issue you a ticket number (lottery) and a passcode to access the content made available so far.

Helpful hint:If you are a newbie and can't post here but are interested in taking part in testing this out,please just PM me and we'll take it from there 

Thanks for that gorgo1. Wow the Times really love ripping you off for memberships that don't even last a lifetime.

I'm keeping an eye on this thread as I'm interested in seeing how this develops.I look forward to this being in action.The price is amazing compared to this:  https://mynews.secure.force.com/webjourney/webj_subscription?url=http%253A%252F%252Fwww.thesundaytimes.co.uk%252Fsto%252Fnews%252Fuk_news%252FTech%252Farticle1007220.ece

I hope you succeed film2240 so I can have access to great value media with a wider range of content that the media in my home country

I am working on a content subscription system that will give the paying person access to all paid-for content on my blog (that was created under the brand-Dream Islands Publishing).
At the moment I plan to make this a one off fee for a lifetime membership as the BTC protocol and system isn't really designed to handle monthly subscriptions like the Direct Debit system is in the UK.

Here's what I hope to achieve:
1.A one-off fee that give's a lifetime acess to all content that is produced (that's paid for)
2.A straightforward system for everyone to manage,signup to and understand.
3.The content delivery shall have a diverse range of content (this means written articles,videos,sounds,images and perhaps even some items I create that can be licensed in other people's works)
4.A simply step system which goes something like this: person sends payment to me > the person then PMs me asking for a pass (code) to grant access to paid for subscription) and all content for this) > easy access to all content paid for by lifetime subscription > job done
5. A 1 BTC one off fee for life for every member.This beats (nearly all) media subscriptions and magazines in most of the world. (and real life-look at subscriptions in the UK and you'll see what I mean)
6.A recognisable brand for this service that people can understand and later come to trust. (Like Dream Islands Publishing)
7.Later on, once the setup is more established,this will expand to let guest writers get a piece of the pie (funded by making their articles pay-per-view rather than part of the subscription,if people don't feel ready to buy a full subscription yet that is.)

Any feedback will be helpful and please no scammers or trolling as that's not constructive for anyone here. Why make this system? I feel it's high time that Bitcoin be put to more media friendly applications that are also straightforward. I saw how successfull Matthew N Wright was with his magazine subscription: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/pre-order-bitcoin-magazine-quality-control-final-revisions-on-proofs-61017 and I figured if that can take off so can this.

When the trial roll out starts, you'll see an update on here for the first 5 testers who will enjoy a special subscription rate (instead of the usual rate) that will be for life.