Topic: iBelink DM11G - 10800mhs - $6750 - UNMODERATED - LEGAL NEWS (Read 4069 times)

Bitmain is a prime example, a chinese company thats building miners like toasters and is selling them, but why not mine it all for themselves? Because its more lucrative to do both. God help us if they produce a x11 miner. They prob wont because dash hasnt got the trading volume of something like btc. If ibelink mine on even 1/4 of what their first batch will apparently do then thats a lot of dash coins a day sold on market  to make instant cash, dash trading volume isnt high enough to probably absorb such selling, without probably decreasing the price, and even if they hold the mined coin theres no guarantee theyd be able to sell it in the future for as much or more. Dash is still a late bloomer and its price is still prone to volatility. No Company wants to fully crash the market they're in business with. By only selling the dm11g to major players at least they know that those people are more likely sophisticated investors who wont sell in a panic or in a way that will ruin the price, unlike say like a amateur home trader/miner would do. Thats why its going to be so difficult for any average person to get their hands on this equipment, because in the wrong hands it could destroy the marketplace in enough numbers, and the resellers that do sell it are only going to sell the machine with a huge markup because its the best thing going and blows away the competition. Anyone taking the risk of pre ordering this machine is doing so at a huge discount on what resellers will charge, and even once ibelink sell them to everyday consumers they will pay more for it and cop the difficulty increases that will follow (mainly from further batches and new megaminers the competition might dish out later). Every week will be crucial in ROI and only the first batch owners will make a killing, and even if they dont, they could sell the miner for a premium to the customers waiting to buy the 2nd batch, which could be another few months, if that even gets sold to the general public.

I agree they need investors to try to get manufacturing funding and went as high as they can with the hashrate, to try to prevent competitors from developing a product in the time they hope to get manufacturing right. They havent produced a product in so long, and their previous product is so obsolete. Who wants to pay for anything new off a company thats so out of date, and slow to react to the markets demand? Even if they brought out like a 2.4ghs machine, it wouldnt be enough because theyd have to either use they existing expensive chassis or redesign a new compact miner (Like a Giant) which isnt easy for them as they have never used this design before. How much space a miner takes isnt just important for for shipping and stock control but farms would prefer miners that are smaller too due to their space limitations. They have to try and fit the power of 8-12 giants in the same space of one ibelink chassis to make it worthwhile for everyone involved. For a company that hasnt really made any money since the 384 they will need funding to build these new boards. They could build one after the other and mine as they build but this takes too long and the returns will be diminishing as the hashrate climbs not just on their miners but baikals miners coming out, especially within the next few weeks. By the time they produce 3000 machines this way without pre orders the network hash rate will be a triple and their product will have to be sold cheaper and by then the competition will have their new miners to compete with the dm11g.

I'm not sure that your analysis works with Chinese companies. If they can get money right now - they will do it, before their manufacturing facility will be caught of safety issues, poor treatment of workers, illegal usage of IPs etc

Fast make + fast sell = mega profit (can buy condo on Maui)

That would mean theres 5376 chips in a chassis, quite a feat, and to build those boards would cost more then 6750. They ve said ever since they released the 384 unit that they have been working on a new chip. The new chip must be getting about 168mhs a chip, while the previous only 2mhz. Original baikals minis were 37mhs a chip, pinideas chips were less efficient then baikals, so common sense would say manufacturers are only going to use more efficient and powerful chips for future models. The fact that ibelink havent produced anything to compete with baikal and pinidea lately would probably mean they wont release anything until they know they can blow away the competition. The technology is out there for better asic chips for x11, noone has bothered using them less maybe because of cost and the disruption it would cause to network hashrate. Imagine what a 16nm x11 asic chip would do.  
 "We have already started the iBeLink™ next generation X11 ASIC chip development. This ASIC will be a fully customized deep sub-micron chip. The efficiency of the chip will be superior to any competitor’s offerings. This advanced ASIC chip (silicon) will be available this year."

Does iBelink manufacture their good or rebrand it?

From a business point of view it does not make sense to sell a product that is 28 x more powerful than your last product and 9 times the power of your competitors latest release (4 x cubes joined). If it is a money making exercise then you might offer a 2.4GH/s, then release a 4.8GH/s then a 7.6gh/s then a 10.8gh/s. Sell 500 units of each at $5000 and you have made 10 million dollars. Or jump straight to 10.8GH/S, sell 500 and drive up network hashrate 2x or 3x the current global hash rate in one release where your product becomes ordinary really quickly and only make 2.5mill.

If they have no control over the manufacture of the product then their supplier has said this is whats available and are working with it, but even the supplier should see from a business point of view the 1st example is much more profitable.

it is also possible they have only built a prototype, need investors to try to get manufacturing funding and went as high as they can to try to prevent competitors from developing a product in the time they hope to get manufacturing right.

Despite I fully agree with you on this statement: "My advice: never preorder in crypto ! ". Indeed, never do it!

But - there many reasons to sell miners even if them can make a huge profit. Bitmain does not do it - because they have all infrastructure to deploy any miners. But some ASIC manufacturers do not have facilities to put their own miners.

So for them selling is only solution

I think it has stability issues to be honest. It has not been up for a prolonged length of time. From the pictures I actually think it is 28 x 384mh/s miners split between 4 large cards. I think manufacturing has allowed them to condense the 384 unit allowing them to fit more in a chassis. Being able to do this as a prototype is a lot different to being able to manufacture 1000's of them. Especially at the $6750 price point. The next 6 months will be interesting none the less.

Just put your brain to think !
Which company will sell you a miner for $6750 when if they run it for themselves will make a profit of $10000 / month.
Same story with the scrypt some years ago....
My advice: never preorder in crypto !

Please do share if you happen to be familiar with this situation.  I am sure if it is related to the iBelink people will want to know.   

Once again they stopped and restarted the 11g.  That does not make sense.  Something is not adding up here.

I am a new man, but I know something

But no one cares


I'm from China.

Interesting the 11G is up, down, up, down, back up again.  Not sure why they are not leaving it running.  Seems pretty odd.  Another odd thing is in the other moderated thread all of the pictures of 'people' have been removed from the thread.  I wonder why they would do that???  Maybe this thread is hitting pretty close to home. 

100% agree

I just hope history does not repeat itself and people end up losing their coins

A world with bitcoin sure is fascinating, just wish it didn't manifest so much greed in people

In many ways this is brilliant.  It is like a real estate flipper using other peoples money to get leverage to make a deal that is way over your head.  You assume little to no risk, use other peoples money, and if the deal goes bad you shrug and go onto the next deal. 

From what we are able to gather that appears to be what is going on here.  Sadly they will push forward no matter what because they don't have a lot if any skin in the game.  They are using OPM(other peoples money) to make it happen.  They know if the deal works they stand to make a lot of money regardless if the 11g is worth a plug nickel.   If the 11g turns out to be OK and it actually ships they stand to make even more.  So they don't have any reason to throw caution to the wind.  I would venture that actual money out of their pocket percentage wise is a very small fraction of this deal...  If they have any money in it at all. 

They are likely relying on angel investors and of course this community to make the deal happen and they laugh all the way to the bank. "It's just business" they will say.  It would have just been business if you had left the community out of it and bought the miners and then offered to sell them straight up.  When you start looking on the forum like a vulture looks at road kill then there is something wrong... 

Reputations have already been tarnished. 

There are lots of red flags popping up everywhere about this whole deal.

To comment;  nice to put a photo to the faces.

still; even now; I see no further evidence of an actual product.... (look at how pandaminer started out then acted;  at least they responded kindly and promptly for more info/specs/photos/videos/etc...)


Seeing posts hit the moderated thread then be deleted;  when its a very reasonable statement or request.... is absurd.
Why are you guys hiding honest opinions and comments? 
Why did the price of this group buy fluctuate by ~15% in the course of less than a week?


You are making profit for your efforts on these miners;  you must accept the legal requirements of doing so.  There are rules about doing business in the US, and there are also rules about import/export as well; which are clearly being avoided.  Anyone can see that.


I myself wouldn't touch this deal with a 50 foot pole.  No way in hell.


If people were open, up front, and moreover courteous about dealing with the issues stemming from the behaviors they are exhibiting; Things would be a LOT different; and we would have a LOT more knowledge about what the real deal actually is.  Instead people make things worse by trying to "save face" instead of just produce and wait for a response.

You can't blame someone for wanting transparency; instead of being forced to blindly trust some historically inconsistent and shady practices.

How many guys do you KNOW in this "group" lol shady much? that there is such a group that is going aroung trolling people?  You mentioned "ALL" of them? lol you just admitteed there IS a such terror grouip amonst us and you  know "SOME" of them. This account is sold or compromised looking at its post history from January to April to now, I would not take ANYTHING they say, and yes "THEY" to heart as it is obvious it is a sock puppet account.

ya man, i think most realize that, but the people who run the group buy will make their $$$ either way, 100% of the risk is on these buyers, the " private group" have only PROVED with signed message holding MAYBE 10,000$ in funds, the community is taking ALL the risk here :/
having others back them up with nothing but words sketches me even more, how deep this is plot?

i wont be touching this, Phil/kilo cant save us the risk and 1200USD per machine, meh why bother?  just those who havent seen this b4 and think their buying a unicorn i guess :/

Folks,

Well, I'm not posting much nor often (in regards to all that "trust" things going on...), but I personally do have some knowledge of doing business in and with companies in China. I'm regularly (every or every second month) flying over to China and do have established some beneficial relations throughout the years. Even more important, I have an understanding of how business in China (and with Chinese) is actually done, and how it works. After reading all the different posting in connection with the iBelink DM11G, and the ongoing discussions of group buys, trust etc., please allow me to point out just some things (before you burn your fingers/money):

1. Chineses mentality is totally different when it comes to admitting that something is "not going as planned". They won't admit, because for them it means losing their face. Instead they have ten million excuses and stories why things are not working as planned. You should now how to deal with such situations.

2. To close a deal, many Chinese tend to agree to things which they know upfront they can't fulfill. And then you quickly reach point 1.

3. Shipping from China via DHL is usually very cheap (if you know how). I have done many shipments by DHL from China (mostly Shenzhen region) to Europe for around USD 4.00/kg. I don't know the prices to the US at the moment, but something like 500-750 USD for a miner to the USA sounds way too expensive...

4. I wouldn't trust any (fairly) "new" office in Beijing nor anywhere else in China. Btw. I assume the production factory is in the Shenzhen area (usually these kind of things are all manufactured in the Shenzhen area)?

5. It happened to me, that I have been shown a factory and production facility of a Chinese company that later turned out had nothing to the with the company claiming to be theirs. I learned that this is very common and done just to secure a deal! How does it work? A few hundred dollars into the factories directors pocket and he will allow any company claiming it is their own factory. Don't trust them so easily!

6. You will only pay 50% upfront to a Chinese company if you are either a gambler or a dumbass that want's to learn some expensive lessons (sorry for the harsh words, but I have seen this happen too many times to put it more nicely). There are other solutions that will put you on the safe side!

There are many, many more points that I could bore you guys with, but although I'm not questioning the product or its existence in any way, I would strongly advise against entering any contract with said company in connection with a 50% deposit payment. You are guaranteed to be getting some surprises...

What I would adviseis, that you do a proper due diligence. Of course you have tried to do that like anyone in the US would do it, but that doesn't work for China. Why? They have a totally different mentality, totally different legal system, totally different everything!

Once again, I don't want to blame anyone, nor deny the product itself nor iBelink as a company, but they way you are trying to do business with them is hardly going to be successful.

Just my 2cents
Andy

Probably to deny he was there, lol. This transparency thing is getting weirder and weirder, too much secrecy going on. I wish all the buyers best of luck in getting their hardware. Guess I'll stick with my baikal for now, luckily they accepted bank wire transfers. Coinbase.com takes too long to convert my money for any other group buys that only does crypto.

you have just made kilo and his crew look like clowns