idea - page 3. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Factory

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Quote from: ?? on ??

I will make some dividends off of that land. Will it be 10% each year? I doubt it but on average I expect 4 to 6% with no issue.

You say dividends; but could you please clear this up the following:

Do you mean a 100% payout to shareholders of net income in the form of dividends? If so, the 4-6% figure would be a shockingly low ROIC; especially for an emerging market play. It would also mean 0 capital to grow and expand. A 0 growth venture with such limited ROIC seems quite underwhelming for shareholders.

Quote from: El Cabron on September 21, 2012, 04:06:53 AM

So we should have an asset that goes up in value compared to fiat and pay dividends in an asset that should also go up in value compared to fiat. The price of food will only go up.
Thanks guys.

This statement seems highly speculative. This venture would likely have extremely tight net margins. Therefore, even a small decline in the price of rice could shift the return to a negative value. Pairing this risk with an issuance denominated in btc would likely expose shareholders to extreme risk.

It seems you are also downplaying or not even illustrating many of the potential risks with this venture.

If there is enough interest in this operation, I suggest creating a much more formal model to present to potential investors.

Currently, from my vantage point, this investment would likely not many sense for a practical investor.

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: cbeast on September 22, 2012, 09:25:32 AM

This might not be a bad idea if it is not limited to one farm. Perhaps a group of farmers will join together to form an international fund. I was thinking of buying a tea plantation in the Philippines. I won't need investors, but it might help the business grow faster.

I do know a few others (one guy even on this forum) who does the same. But why do you think more than one farm is good? Wouldmany small farms be better than one large farm?

Thanks.

It's not a big vs small thing. I just mean that a diverse group fund would mitigate risk.

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

This might not be a bad idea if it is not limited to one farm. Perhaps a group of farmers will join together to form an international fund. I was thinking of buying a tea plantation in the Philippines. I won't need investors, but it might help the business grow faster.

SysRun

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Portland Bitcoin Group Organizer

What does the Cambodian government do to ensure the flow of rice? Is there a rice surplus in Cambodia?

I'll be looking into this, but if anyone knows offhand I'd appreciate it.

Francesco

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Quote from: bitcoinbear on September 22, 2012, 08:56:52 AM

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on September 22, 2012, 08:51:37 AM

I was being facetious of course. Its much better to invest in land than mining rigs since they depreciate massively whereas land does not most of the time. In our local area house prices double every 2 years I can imagine it doing that elsewhere.

I dont know how you could say that, it is patently absurd. I fell for the hype of the housing market, it was only going up, right? I bought a house in 2005, tried to sell it the past few years but nobody was even looking at it when it was listed at 30% of what I payed for it.

Well that bubble was quite obvious. I remember since I was a child wondering who on earth would buy all the houses they were building, since our population has been stable for at least a decade.
But food can be traded all around the world, and overall we will always need more and more of it.

bitcoinbear

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Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on September 22, 2012, 08:51:37 AM

I was being facetious of course. Its much better to invest in land than mining rigs since they depreciate massively whereas land does not most of the time. In our local area house prices double every 2 years I can imagine it doing that elsewhere.

I dont know how you could say that, it is patently absurd. I fell for the hype of the housing market, it was only going up, right? I bought a house in 2005, tried to sell it the past few years but nobody was even looking at it when it was listed at 30% of what I payed for it.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Bitcoin Oz on September 22, 2012, 08:28:03 AM

Quote from: Francesco on September 22, 2012, 06:57:47 AM

Great! This is what Bitcoin should be for, moving money freely around the Globe, reaching the best opportunities without barriers; not "arbitraging" and "loaning" at absurd rates. I am so glad a member f the community I can trust stepped in this direction.
And even more glad so many in this community hate slavery, and so are soon going to offer each of those Cambodian farmers a work with western-level wages, because it's the fair thing to do. Right? Can't wait to see it happen

They are going to hire people to work on the farm who will proceed to eat all the rice, steal anything not nailed down and make sure anything produced on the farm is covered in E.Coli so people get food poisining, going by the track record of bitcoin investments in the past.

Maybe your investments but mine have been pretty solid. You can check my history on all of my bonds.
BTW for about the 5th time we are not going to hire anyone and there is nothing on the land but dirt (and soon to be rice)....

I was being facetious of course. Its much better to invest in land than mining rigs since they depreciate massively whereas land does not most of the time. In our local area house prices double every 2 years I can imagine it doing that elsewhere.

Its also better to use btc to send fiat value overseas than paying western union so as long as you arent selling btc you already have its a good investment.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: Francesco on September 22, 2012, 06:57:47 AM

Great! This is what Bitcoin should be for, moving money freely around the Globe, reaching the best opportunities without barriers; not "arbitraging" and "loaning" at absurd rates. I am so glad a member f the community I can trust stepped in this direction.
And even more glad so many in this community hate slavery, and so are soon going to offer each of those Cambodian farmers a work with western-level wages, because it's the fair thing to do. Right? Can't wait to see it happen

They are going to hire people to work on the farm who will proceed to eat all the rice, steal anything not nailed down and make sure anything produced on the farm is covered in E.Coli so people get food poisining, going by the track record of bitcoin investments in the past.

Chang Hum

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Quote from: bitcoinbear on September 22, 2012, 08:13:04 AM

Quote from: Chang Hum on September 22, 2012, 01:15:19 AM

One thing I don't understand about this Glbse lending is if Bitcoins rise a higher % in value then your investment yields (which is more than odds on likely) surely you lose money? am I missing something or does it make absolutely no sense to lend from a deflationary currency to fiat?

How sure are you that the btc price will still rise? Btc is still a high risk investment, this allows diversification. If the btc price drops then this investment will still hold value.

If you are so sure that btc prices will rise in the future, you should be putting every penny you have into bitcoin.

What I meant is you can't ask for an investment in BTC through the Glbse and offer a positive return in BTC with any certainty.

bitcoinbear

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Quote from: Chang Hum on September 22, 2012, 01:15:19 AM

One thing I don't understand about this Glbse lending is if Bitcoins rise a higher % in value then your investment yields (which is more than odds on likely) surely you lose money? am I missing something or does it make absolutely no sense to lend from a deflationary currency to fiat?

How sure are you that the btc price will still rise? Btc is still a high risk investment, this allows diversification. If the btc price drops then this investment will still hold value.

If you are so sure that btc prices will rise in the future, you should be putting every penny you have into bitcoin.

Francesco

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Activity: 252

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Great! This is what Bitcoin should be for, moving money freely around the Globe, reaching the best opportunities without barriers; not "arbitraging" and "loaning" at absurd rates. I am so glad a member f the community I can trust stepped in this direction.
And even more glad so many in this community hate slavery, and so are soon going to offer each of those Cambodian farmers a work with western-level wages, because it's the fair thing to do. Right? Can't wait to see it happen

Chang Hum

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Chang Hum, You clearly did not read the thread. If you had you would realize that we are not going to buy machinery. A farmer who already farms rice will use his already paid for stuff to farm our rice for us. In exchange for his stuff and free time he will get a percent of the rice.

Also I highly doubt that your family has rice farms in Cambodia. I understand that you live in Thailand and like me, I think rice farming in Thailand is not a good market to get into. However we can get the same amount of rice for less than half the cost doing it in Cambodia. I think that land price in Cambodia will move up in value and become close to equal to Thailand and in the mean time I will make some dividends off of that land. Will it be 10% each year? I doubt it but on average I expect 4 to 6% with no issue.

Thank you.

No they don't, just my 2 cents good luck with it

bitcool

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Live and enjoy experiments

Quote from: Chang Hum on September 22, 2012, 04:50:36 AM

I've actually got a lot of rice farmers who own their own land in my family, I can piss their yearly wages in about a few days and if you're investing in the machinery needed to make any sizable enterprise you certainly wont be making any profit for a few years, also it's extremely seasonal and some years it rains a lot and you make money some years are very bad. Personally I think it's got to be about the least attractive and most saturated business in a poor economy and for a foreigner to get involved is insane.

That's pretty much the same conclusion I reached after researching investing in ag business around the world, not only in poor economies.

Unless you are Jim Rogers of course Wink

Chang Hum

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: Chang Hum on September 22, 2012, 04:12:23 AM

Quote from: Factory on September 22, 2012, 03:07:29 AM

Quote from: Chang Hum on September 22, 2012, 01:15:19 AM

One thing I don't understand about this Glbse lending is if Bitcoins rise a higher % in value then your investment yields (which is more than odds on likely) surely you lose money? am I missing something or does it make absolutely no sense to lend from a deflationary currency to fiat?

If the GLBSE issue is denominated in BTC and the business operations are in fiat the return will fall if bitcoins strengthen vs the currency the operation is denominated in. However, if btc's relative value remains flat or decreases, then the realized returns in btc will increase. You could view this as a hedging opportunity for a portfolio that is heavily based in btc-based ventures.

Yes a spastic may regard it as hedging! Most people would regard it as taking your money out of a low risk high yielding investment and putting it in a high risk low yielding joke!

Bitcoin is not seen by the average world citizen as low risk and the average world citizen does not see rice farming, something that has been done for 10,000 years as high risk. Some people would think rice farming to be more stable than BTC but I will admit most of these people might be found outside of this forum.

I'm not saying you should sell BTC to invest in this project, I love BTC, but if you want to invest some of your fiat in this project BTC is a good way to send that value to me.

BTC is more than just a commodity to be stored it is also a way to send wealth around the world safely in seconds.

Thanks.

I've actually got a lot of rice farmers who own their own land in my family, I can piss their yearly wages in about a few days and if you're investing in the machinery needed to make any sizable enterprise you certainly wont be making any profit for a few years, also it's extremely seasonal and some years it rains a lot and you make money some years are very bad. Personally I think it's got to be about the least attractive and most saturated business in a poor economy and for a foreigner to get involved is insane.

malevolent

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: malevolent on September 21, 2012, 01:11:55 PM

Do you know how would those peasants in Cambodia react to your ideas? I am quite sure they would not be happy that some spoiled Westerner (correct me if I'm wrong) is keen on imposing limits on freedom of others, freedom which would result in them having a job to support their families.

You raise an interesting point. Given Cambodia's history with slavery farming (farmers can similarly become indentured to the landowner after a bad year under sharecropping), I would be interested to know their opinion about Goat's proposed venture.

If they agree to work it will mean that the pros outweigh the cons.

Chang Hum

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Quote from: Factory on September 22, 2012, 03:07:29 AM

Quote from: Chang Hum on September 22, 2012, 01:15:19 AM

One thing I don't understand about this Glbse lending is if Bitcoins rise a higher % in value then your investment yields (which is more than odds on likely) surely you lose money? am I missing something or does it make absolutely no sense to lend from a deflationary currency to fiat?

If the GLBSE issue is denominated in BTC and the business operations are in fiat the return will fall if bitcoins strengthen vs the currency the operation is denominated in. However, if btc's relative value remains flat or decreases, then the realized returns in btc will increase. You could view this as a hedging opportunity for a portfolio that is heavily based in btc-based ventures.

Yes a spastic may regard it as hedging! Most people would regard it as taking your money out of a low risk high yielding investment and putting it in a high risk low yielding joke!

Transisto

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I might promote and invest into this only to give the guest a reply when the talk-show host ask : "but, but Bitcoin its for drugs, illegal BS"

Factory

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Quote from: Chang Hum on September 22, 2012, 01:15:19 AM

One thing I don't understand about this Glbse lending is if Bitcoins rise a higher % in value then your investment yields (which is more than odds on likely) surely you lose money? am I missing something or does it make absolutely no sense to lend from a deflationary currency to fiat?

If the GLBSE issue is denominated in BTC and the business operations are in fiat the return will fall if bitcoins strengthen vs the currency the operation is denominated in. However, if btc's relative value remains flat or decreases, then the realized returns in btc will increase. You could view this as a hedging opportunity for a portfolio that is heavily based in btc-based ventures.

Chang Hum

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Btc like usd and thai baht will float. How the value gets to me i.dont care. I can take gold or even rice and potentally pay out the same. I could mail investers rice if they want. On the phone so sorry for unclear messagea. Thx

Yeah think you're kind of missing the point. Never mind!

Chang Hum

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Quote from: ?? on ??

You should not think of this as a btc investment. Btc in this case is only a way to move fiat and rice. Thanks

Oh OK you're not funding with btc right? Sorry I didn't realise you could do GLBSE investments in USD and you used the term BTC several times in your pitch

Topic: idea - page 3. (Read 10416 times)