Topic: Idea for extremely paranoid people who want to create a bitcoin wallet - page 2. (Read 387 times)

That's a question, what is random? I suggest you to check this post: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.60219656
Also, this quote from Radioactive decay wiki page sounds interesting:
Those people don't know math and probably still believe in fairy tales. Human brain follows some logic, even if that logic sounds illogical for us So, human brain likes to follow certain path and when human thinks to generate a random word seed phrase, he or she always follows certain logic. For example, from 2048 wordlist, one human may say that let's take 7th word as a first word, then let's 2048th word, then 2047th word, then 1st word, then middle word. You see, there is a logic here and it's not random, it can't be random because human has to think to create something, human thinks how to create it, human is not a machine that can generate something without thinking about it, that's just impossible.

FWIW even if you change all the algorithms used to create the mnemonic to work with a much bigger entropy (eg. 2048 bit) with using the much bigger word list; in the end when you derive private keys from that entropy, those keys are still going to provide you with only 128-bits of security

For a 24 word seed phrase, the total number of combinations would be 2.96 x 10^79 and assuming we have a computer that can check 1 billion combinations per seconds, it takes 9.40 x 10^62 years to check all the combinations.
If the seed phrase is BIP39, the number of possible combinations would be 1.16 x 10^77 and it takes 3.67 x 10^60 years to check all those combinations.

There are errors in the calculations done by ChatGPT.

2048^24 isn't equal to 8.71 x 10^77
8.71 x 10^68 seconds isn't equal to 2.76 x 10^60 years.
2.76 x 10^60 years isn't 2.76 million trillion years.

As per the theoretical calculation time taken to brute force the 24-word recovery seed from the BIP list is longer than the age of our universe which is expected to be around 14 billion years.

I considered a system that can do 1 billion combinations per second then the time taken to brute force 24 word seed would be 2.76 million trillion years.

Calculations from chat GPT

why isn't it not possible original meme

Warning!, skip the video at 0.05.

I think the most important point is what "random" means? Some people think that the human brain is good at randomness, or for example, as long as the seed is long, I am safe. No one can guess a seed that is 12 words long, so I will generate it myself, but they are wrong. Randomness means a strong random number that represents a 128 bit key at least, that If the randomness is 32bit key, you are not safe, and so on. In short, if you do not understand how entropy works, then trying to rely on the human brain will cause you to lose your money. Use a good, open source wallet, and you can verify that the entropy is at least 128 bits long, then you are safe.

You can verify electrum code entropy from here ---> https://github.com/spesmilo/electrum/blob/3.3.8/electrum/mnemonic.py#L163

My "solution" is to tell them to try "hacking" someone else's wallet. Give it your best shot, enter as many of those words into new wallets as your keyboard can handle! Or use software for it, "hack" billions upon billions of seed phrases! The same with private keys: run vanitygen on the rich list for as long as you want. By doing so, maybe you'll convince yourself how secure Bitcoin really is.

That's what I am saying, however, people can't understand that there is absolutely no difference in real world whether you use 2048 public wordlist or all the words that exist in English language. But you have probably seen this more often than me that people are afraid they will lose their coins because someone bruteforces their wallet and the public availability of wordlist will make that process fast and smooth and so on. I know it's not true and I know that in both cases, entropy is the same. But if anyone has OCD and wants a relief, I found thesaurus as a solution They will have no more fear.

It's easily done. Just navigate to your Electrum installation folder, and go to \electrum\wordlist. First back up "english.txt", and then edit the original with your own wordlist. Job done.

I just pulled the wordlist from here and gave it a shot: https://github.com/dwyl/english-words. It has 466k words, and it worked just fine. I generated the following seed phrase:


Thanks to how Electrum works, you don't need to know my wordlist to recover that above seed phrase. You can import it in to any copy of Electrum just fine and recover the same wallet, which will give you the following address first:


However, doing this completely misses the point. The above seed phrase has exactly the same entropy as a seed phrase using the default wordlist - 132 bits. Increasing the size of the wordlist does not change the underlying entropy used to generate the seed phrase.

Thesaurus.com is a public website that provides people with over 550,000 synonyms in English language. There are 2048 words in BIP39 wordlist, that is used to create normal bitcoin wallets. While I have to say that there is absolutely no way someone can hack your wallet that was randomly created from BIP39 wordlist and contains 12 seeds, still, there are super paranoid people who even think that  24 words seed phrase can be hacked because it uses publicly available BIP39 wordlist. So, there are people who don't know math, don't want to learn and are stubborn.

So, I came up with an idea for these people. Let's scrape thesaurus.com and download its wordlist database. Since Electrum is an open-source and uses wordlist, I think it might be possible to generate a bitcoin randomly from your own wordlist. Let's put thesaurus 550,000 wordlist into your electrum and randomly generate 24 words seed phrase. I don't know if your computer crashes but I think you will feel relief.

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Maybe my post feel like sarcasm but my message is, please, relax!
If you random generate 12 words seed phrase bitcoin address from BIP39 list, your wallet will never be hacked because it will take so much time that you, your bitcoins and probably universe won't exist by that time.
If you random generate 24 words seed phrase bitcoin address from BIP39 list, even if you reveal all of your words in unordered way, still, no one will be able to hack it. Do you understand what I am saying? Even if you reveal all of your seed phrases in an unordered way (It doesn't apply to 12 words seed), your wallet still won't be hacked till this universe exist.

So, please, just chill and relax, don't generate wordlist yourself, there is absolutely no necessity and you may do more harm than good. There is absolutely no case where someone's randomly generated wallet got hacked. In absolutely every case where bitcoins were lost, either the person didn't take security seriously and was infected with malware or just lost his/her keys, that's all.