Idea to avoid high fee | Bitcointalksearch.org

Amph

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Quote from: aardvark15 on March 18, 2017, 05:50:30 PM

If you convert of an altcoin on an exchange, that exchange will charge a fee for you and another fee for the recipient when he/she converts back. I guess it depends on how much all those fees add up to be and if it is still profitable.

i guess bitcoin subchain would work better in this case, and would not require additional fee, too bad the idea of subchain seems to be forgotten enterely, as i have not heard anything anymore about it

also subchain would have avoided hard forking or soft forking and added a security to zero confirmation transaction, but i guess miners were not in agreement with this too...

ASHLIUSZ

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Quote from: dodgecharger on March 19, 2017, 01:01:48 AM

Quote from: Rude Boy on March 19, 2017, 12:54:34 AM

The fees for Bitcoin transactions are equal or bigger than those for bank transactions, that means that there is enough demand for Bitcoin transactions for those fees to be being paid. That would mean that Bitcoin is succeeding magnificently, the exact opposite of collapsing.
It's like seeing a restaurant that's always crowded (fully-packed), and asking "Is that restaurant about to go out of business? It's too crowded to keep operating!" In actuality, the restaurant is prospering, not on the brink of bankruptcy.
In other words, if you begin with the assumption that fees in Bitcoin are super-high, you are implicitly assuming that there is super-high demand for bitcoins, i.e. that Bitcoin is doing super-well.

Yes, you are right. In such a situation users were waiting hours for transactions getting included in a block before the purchased products got delivery. what will they think about? If I were him, I would switch to other payment method.

Ethereum has been gaining price as well the capital has increased much in a short. In the same situation bitcoin faced the confirmation delay but with with the confirmation time has got reduced within 20seconds time. In future the same need to take place with bitcoin for more merchant accept bitcoin.

dodgecharger

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Quote from: Rude Boy on March 19, 2017, 12:54:34 AM

The fees for Bitcoin transactions are equal or bigger than those for bank transactions, that means that there is enough demand for Bitcoin transactions for those fees to be being paid. That would mean that Bitcoin is succeeding magnificently, the exact opposite of collapsing.
It's like seeing a restaurant that's always crowded (fully-packed), and asking "Is that restaurant about to go out of business? It's too crowded to keep operating!" In actuality, the restaurant is prospering, not on the brink of bankruptcy.
In other words, if you begin with the assumption that fees in Bitcoin are super-high, you are implicitly assuming that there is super-high demand for bitcoins, i.e. that Bitcoin is doing super-well.

Yes, you are right. In such a situation users were waiting hours for transactions getting included in a block before the purchased products got delivery. what will they think about? If I were him, I would switch to other payment method.

coynedterm

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Quote from: btvGainer on March 18, 2017, 06:06:33 AM

A lot of people complain about increasing transaction fee of bitcoin and some even consider to postpone their transaction to avoid these fees.
What about we always convert btc to some other Altcoin before sending and recipient can convert it back to btc as per is convenience?
We can do it for smaller amount of transactions as paying high fee for them is not feasible.
This will also reduce the network congestion to some large extent as most of these transactions are usually of smaller amount.
What is your opinion?

I think here we need to pay the suitable amount of fee that is needed to get speed confirmation because the fee is not only incease for our loss but it is helping to the bitcoin network and this will improve the bitcoin future and technology .
So i will say just pay the suitablle fee . But if you want pay low fee then keep in your mind that you don't need speed confirmations .

Rude Boy

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The fees for Bitcoin transactions are equal or bigger than those for bank transactions, that means that there is enough demand for Bitcoin transactions for those fees to be being paid. That would mean that Bitcoin is succeeding magnificently, the exact opposite of collapsing.
It's like seeing a restaurant that's always crowded (fully-packed), and asking "Is that restaurant about to go out of business? It's too crowded to keep operating!" In actuality, the restaurant is prospering, not on the brink of bankruptcy.
In other words, if you begin with the assumption that fees in Bitcoin are super-high, you are implicitly assuming that there is super-high demand for bitcoins, i.e. that Bitcoin is doing super-well.

numismatist

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Quote from: aardvark15 on March 18, 2017, 05:50:30 PM

If you convert of an altcoin on an exchange, that exchange will charge a fee for you and another fee for the recipient when he/she converts back. I guess it depends on how much all those fees add up to be and if it is still profitable.

The idea was born dead. If an altcoin is needed there is that opposite implication - the original seems to be unneeded. That leaves it behind as a collector's token.

pooya87

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if we wanted to use an altcoin and if we could use an altcoin the way we are using bitcoin then we wouldn't have hesitated one second. but the problem is that altcoins have numerous problems that you don't see until you use them.
one of the problems that i actually had today because i was doing some arbitrage trading is the number of confirmation these altcoins require. when you are left waiting an hour for 60+ confirmation and no block is found on that altcoin chain you come back crying to bitcoin Cheesy

indiangrad

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Quote from: Winner on March 18, 2017, 06:44:05 AM

What your discussing been around since Peercoin was built. People were trying to get more Bitcoin exposure while having another digital currency get some promotion as well. Digital Payments are the main thing in this niche, that is why most of the Altcoins are getting known from news websites and the such.

Bitcoin transactions could have a highspeed if there was a third-party payment processor to sort of loan money for Bitcoins so the sender could immediately recieve the money.

This sounds interesting. In fact, banks in india do something similar for their instant payment system IMPS. But this would lead to increased centralization I guess...

positivezero

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Quote from: btvGainer on March 18, 2017, 06:06:33 AM

A lot of people complain about increasing transaction fee of bitcoin and some even consider to postpone their transaction to avoid these fees.
What about we always convert btc to some other Altcoin before sending and recipient can convert it back to btc as per is convenience?
We can do it for smaller amount of transactions as paying high fee for them is not feasible.
This will also reduce the network congestion to some large extent as most of these transactions are usually of smaller amount.
What is your opinion?

So am I. I also avoid to make some transactions because of higher fees. Maybe some ways to avoid high fees is that converting bitcoin to altcoin as you've said but i think this is not easy and convenient to use.

In my opinion also, just dont mind the higher fees as long as we can bitcoin is an easy way even how high the fees is. Or if we want to have no deduction or fees, then i will just keep my bitcoin safe

aardvark15

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If you convert of an altcoin on an exchange, that exchange will charge a fee for you and another fee for the recipient when he/she converts back. I guess it depends on how much all those fees add up to be and if it is still profitable.

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Quote from: Wapinter on March 18, 2017, 04:55:20 PM

Quote from: DeanJVR on March 18, 2017, 09:56:28 AM

There is a way to transfer any crypto cyrrency to someone else without paying anything and bypass the blockchain all together.
I have address 1/ wallet with 10 BTC or 5 or 1 BTC in it (you can move amounts to get to a amount that is exacly what you want to send to someone else)
For example Say I have 11 BTC's in a wallet or address and I only want to pay my brother 10 BTC for his car I transfer 1 BTC to another wallet or address I own send or give him the address or wallet with the 10 BTC's in with the password so he becomes the new owner of the wallet or address. The actual 10 BTCs never moved anywhere the only thing that changed is the ownership of the 10 BTCs.
With alot of brainstorming by core developers the BTC ecosystem can change completely. Emagine all 21 million BTC has been mined and spread all over the world (decentralised as one big pool) If they were all broken up in sets of 100's 50's 20's 10's 5's 1's 0.01's etc BTC's So if I own (like money) 1 set of 10's BTC and 2 sets of 1's I can store it in a address of 12BTC and give you the whole wallet/address with passwords etc and you do whatever you want with that wallet (1st thing is to change the password. I can give ownership over physycally too in return for your TV etc. Need alot of brain storming though.

If you mean 2 different addresses from same wallet,then the person having private key will own both address.If you mean two different wallets,then you still have to pay fee

No he wanted to mean 2 differents wallets and yes he still needs to pay the fees. In ocurrence for the transaction of sending the 1 BTC to the other wallet he owns. Reading all the replies make me think about the internationnal companies trying to cheat the taxs income for paying less, by hidding some millions here and there in different countries under different companies entities

Wapinter

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Quote from: DeanJVR on March 18, 2017, 09:56:28 AM

There is a way to transfer any crypto cyrrency to someone else without paying anything and bypass the blockchain all together.
I have address 1/ wallet with 10 BTC or 5 or 1 BTC in it (you can move amounts to get to a amount that is exacly what you want to send to someone else)
For example Say I have 11 BTC's in a wallet or address and I only want to pay my brother 10 BTC for his car I transfer 1 BTC to another wallet or address I own send or give him the address or wallet with the 10 BTC's in with the password so he becomes the new owner of the wallet or address. The actual 10 BTCs never moved anywhere the only thing that changed is the ownership of the 10 BTCs.
With alot of brainstorming by core developers the BTC ecosystem can change completely. Emagine all 21 million BTC has been mined and spread all over the world (decentralised as one big pool) If they were all broken up in sets of 100's 50's 20's 10's 5's 1's 0.01's etc BTC's So if I own (like money) 1 set of 10's BTC and 2 sets of 1's I can store it in a address of 12BTC and give you the whole wallet/address with passwords etc and you do whatever you want with that wallet (1st thing is to change the password. I can give ownership over physycally too in return for your TV etc. Need alot of brain storming though.

If you mean 2 different addresses from same wallet,then the person having private key will own both address.If you mean two different wallets,then you still have to pay fee

leopard2

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Jeez i can do an international wire cheaper than those stats Franky posted Shocked

It is not surprising BTC price drops like a rock

It is very surprisign, however, that that money is not moving into the obvious alternatives: PPC and LTC.

Even PPC with its slight 1% yearly inflation would be alot cheaper to use than paying the massive fees to miners. Sad

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Quote from: mobilestrike on March 18, 2017, 04:10:47 PM

But that will take some more time for the transaction. For that you will also deal with the receiver to accept that and you will need to do the transaction from exchange to make it convenient and so people will not be able to show their payment in bitcoin in any currency and then there will be a lot of other complications start to occur. The better is that we go direct with the current fees.

Some because of long transactions have long switched to altcoins. Nevertheless, this problem must be solved. It was very inconvenient to use bitcoin

mobilestrike

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But that will take some more time for the transaction. For that you will also deal with the receiver to accept that and you will need to do the transaction from exchange to make it convenient and so people will not be able to show their payment in bitcoin in any currency and then there will be a lot of other complications start to occur. The better is that we go direct with the current fees.

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Quote from: talkbitcoin on March 18, 2017, 06:53:58 AM

Quote from: btvGainer on March 18, 2017, 06:06:33 AM

A lot of people complain about increasing transaction fee of bitcoin and some even consider to postpone their transaction to avoid these fees.
What about we always convert btc to some other Altcoin before sending and recipient can convert it back to btc as per is convenience?
We can do it for smaller amount of transactions as paying high fee for them is not feasible.
This will also reduce the network congestion to some large extent as most of these transactions are usually of smaller amount.
What is your opinion?

first of all spam attack has been over and fees aren't high anymore. good ol' bitcoin is back.
secondly if block size debate finally comes to an end and we no longer see spam attacks there is no need.

finally your idea would cost even more.
1. bitcoin transaction fee to send to exchange site or shapeshift for example.

This would be one time fee for those who frequently use btc to buy because they can send required amount to exchange once and after converting to Altcoin,can use Altcoin.

Quote from: talkbitcoin on March 18, 2017, 06:53:58 AM

3. altcoin transaction fee. or did you think sending altcoin is free?

I know Altcoin sending also cost some fee but they are much lower than btc

Quote from: talkbitcoin on March 18, 2017, 06:53:58 AM

5. another bitcoin transaction fee to withdraw the exchanged bitcoin to your wallet.

there one would have 2 option.Either convert Altcoin to fiat or keep Altcoin unless he need btc badly for storing but if hr needs it for sending or buying,he can also use Altcoin that he got from sender

Arcteryx

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Wouldn't sending these bitcoins you want to send out to a bitmixer site cause you not to pay out so much in transactions fees?
Or even a casino type wallet and spend some just to keep it active.
Just a suggestion of what I've have experienced in having to do so to avoid these upheaval of bitcoin transaction fees. Wink

webtricks

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Ultimately you need to send Bitcoin to exchanges first in order to convert them in Altcoins. No difference!
Whereas, for receiver there will be a eagerness to convert his alts to btc as soon as possible. In this, eagerness he would be ready to sell them off at lower prices. As the result, receiver will loss gradually. Dumping will become widespread!

LTU_btc

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Quote from: talkbitcoin on March 18, 2017, 06:53:58 AM

finally your idea would cost even more.
1. bitcoin transaction fee to send to exchange site or shapeshift for example.
2. exchange fee based on your volume to exchange bitcoin to that altcoin.
3. altcoin transaction fee. or did you think sending altcoin is free?
4. exchanging that altcoin back to bitcoin and paying another percentage exchange fee.
5. another bitcoin transaction fee to withdraw the exchanged bitcoin to your wallet.

This is exact reason why altcoins can't solve high fees problem. And it's very inconvenient way to send money which also requires additional time for confirmations of transactions.

Quote from: giveen on March 18, 2017, 09:59:52 AM

Come on man you are complaining because the fees is what 0.5$ per transactions. All these years if you see other payment processors like paypal,skrill , payza , etc have been charging 3-10% fees and no one complains about it much as we have no choice. Even though the bitcoin fees has increased it is still cheaper than other alternatives. And converting to altcoins also takes fees so it basically useless to convert.

Well, cheap transactions was one of the main bitcoin advantages. Now, when transaction fees increased, I can send money cheaper via bank transfer than bitcoin. And it's not good for bitcoin development. People will remain to use banks, PayPal and other similar things and they wont try to search for alternatives.

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You cannot solve the tx fee problem by using other Alt coins... that would just be stupid. No matter what you do, you would have to come back

to Bitcoin, and then all fees will be applicable again. This is like saying... use Xapo for all transactions and then balance it out by doing the final

transaction on the BTC Blockchain. We do not want Alt coins or 3rd party services to be the solution... we want Bitcoin to be the solution. Wink

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