Topic: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain - page 33. (Read 44019 times)
thats because price is going down,with price pump there will be more people getting bothered to validate
So, Likely Idean community are getting smaller and smaller. Something very weird happened in validation and now losing it values. Number of validator are decreasing, can we hope more traffic at Idena platform in order to perform more better.
Its not the first time when network is smaller after the validation.
It happens when price is very low and expected payout from mining is not motivating enough. Just like bitcoin ... its hashing power is also going down from time to time, when price is dumped.
My proposal of handling this human farm issue (if its human farm at all, IMO its another exploit):
1- fork network without farm (identities killed, no funds lost - despite stake - it was ment to be lost when you are cheating network. Stealing funds will make us monsters similar to banks)
2- ask exchanges to limit generating new deposit address to once per day/week -that would force farm owners to consolidate funds from many nodes before dumping
3- create soft that auto detect fund consolidating and makes suspicious addresses public (this will also show all other farms that exist but was not detected before)
4- suspicious addresses goes into oracle voting to be excluded from network (identities killed, no funds lost)
4a - no rewards for voters (we should not promote killing innocent nodes)
4b - proof of stake voting (you are not able to stake bought coins so its more like a proof of age). This will make it harder for farm to survive voting even with the majority of network. Mostly such voting will not do
anything since farm will rather decide to self-kill to run with stake rather than trying to cheat the voting.
5- create farm hunting bounty (coins from lost stake by all farm participants?)
6- flexible invitation limit based on previous epoch network grow - invitations should be rare ... not thrown away to everyone who ask. They lose their purpose if they are being used like they are now. This should make it hard to grow fast for next farms.
All this points should make creating big farms extremely hard, mostly unprofitable, and give network time to grow in a healthy way until we will reach amount of real nodes big enough that it is impossible for one human farm to take over the network. Current farm has like 15% of all network (nodes that we know about). This is dangerous.
We should fight until there is no way to fight. Devs proposal can be implemented after lost fight too. We doesn't need to give up without fighting.
1- fork network without farm (identities killed, no funds lost - despite stake - it was ment to be lost when you are cheating network. Stealing funds will make us monsters similar to banks)
2- ask exchanges to limit generating new deposit address to once per day/week -that would force farm owners to consolidate funds from many nodes before dumping
3- create soft that auto detect fund consolidating and makes suspicious addresses public (this will also show all other farms that exist but was not detected before)
4- suspicious addresses goes into oracle voting to be excluded from network (identities killed, no funds lost)
4a - no rewards for voters (we should not promote killing innocent nodes)
4b - proof of stake voting (you are not able to stake bought coins so its more like a proof of age). This will make it harder for farm to survive voting even with the majority of network. Mostly such voting will not do
anything since farm will rather decide to self-kill to run with stake rather than trying to cheat the voting.
5- create farm hunting bounty (coins from lost stake by all farm participants?)
6- flexible invitation limit based on previous epoch network grow - invitations should be rare ... not thrown away to everyone who ask. They lose their purpose if they are being used like they are now. This should make it hard to grow fast for next farms.
All this points should make creating big farms extremely hard, mostly unprofitable, and give network time to grow in a healthy way until we will reach amount of real nodes big enough that it is impossible for one human farm to take over the network. Current farm has like 15% of all network (nodes that we know about). This is dangerous.
We should fight until there is no way to fight. Devs proposal can be implemented after lost fight too. We doesn't need to give up without fighting.
There is no farm. What nonsense. Do you really believe in 700 people working for the benefit of one owner? This is bs.
There is no vulnerability exploited by a third party.
There is no warranty on this case. We can still validate using two IDENA wallets on 1 PC if we successfully complete the validation in less than 1 minute in a short session for each account.There is no vulnerability exploited by a third party.
Someone can also hire other people who are unfamiliar with cryptocurrency by paying after the validation has passed. And for this there are no regulations, so we don't think this is a violation. IDENA still needs a lot of improvisation and significant improvement in order to survive and get out of this Beta stage.
The beta phase ended 47 days ago and the Mainnet was officially launched - https://medium.com/idena/idena-hard-fork-announcement-d194f8816d37
You don't even follow the news.
There is no farm. What nonsense. Do you really believe in 700 people working for the benefit of one owner? This is bs.
There is no vulnerability exploited by a third party.
There is no warranty on this case. We can still validate using two IDENA wallets on 1 PC if we successfully complete the validation in less than 1 minute in a short session for each account.There is no vulnerability exploited by a third party.
Someone can also hire other people who are unfamiliar with cryptocurrency by paying after the validation has passed. And for this there are no regulations, so we don't think this is a violation. IDENA still needs a lot of improvisation and significant improvement in order to survive and get out of this Beta stage.
have an invitation, validation is today at 13:30 GMT, so you have to activate activation until 13h, would be best
send PM if you need one, and synchronize your node before
send PM if you need one, and synchronize your node before
How can you guys be so naive?
There is no farm. What nonsense. Do you really believe in 700 people working for the benefit of one owner? This is bs.
There is no vulnerability exploited by a third party.
Open your eyes in the end and re-read all my posts in this thread, read this thread again - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5223933.20
And just analyze everything and compare the facts.
This is all done by the developers themselves. Because they are greedy.
And the only purpose for which they created this coin is to fill their pockets with money.
Enough already to protect these scammers.
Let this shitty coin die.
There is no farm. What nonsense. Do you really believe in 700 people working for the benefit of one owner? This is bs.
There is no vulnerability exploited by a third party.
Open your eyes in the end and re-read all my posts in this thread, read this thread again - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5223933.20
And just analyze everything and compare the facts.
This is all done by the developers themselves. Because they are greedy.
And the only purpose for which they created this coin is to fill their pockets with money.
Enough already to protect these scammers.
Let this shitty coin die.
Pool operator comment (in Idena Telegram) on your post
I would love it to be true but I don't trust this guys and this whole situation. You know me ... I'm here for more than a year supporting IDENA here on bitcointalk, fighting with every troll, teaching people, explaing why thigs are like they are. But this whole thing doesn't look real. Starting from easy fix that was implemented before validation thanks to volunteer that showed up after farm was exposed and pointed at crytical vulnerability that allows you to validate iwth 90% score (that was ment to solve the problem),
He is playing with us. Main reason why he showed up was to calm the situation so price could recover so he could abuse network even more. He didn't show up because he is good person that want to help. He would do that before his farm was exposed ... not now. He will say anything it needs to calm investors ... that this farm is 1 person 1 node, that it is better to give each person 6 flips to solve rather than run 10s algo and give 2 flips per node, that he is here to help, than it is not as serious as it looks like, that it is easy fix because he is hardly profiting. Price will recover, and he will continue to abuse network but just more carrefour, using many exchange account. We will find him after a year with 70% of network after one smart guy will find a bug that he was abusing. The purpose why abuser showed up and is now a IDENA celebrity is to calm us down. Don't trust every world he says. Don't sweep this case under the rug because this is the day of the final trial. You will make it right and network will succeed, or you will pretend that everything is right because abuser said something... and network will be destroyed in next few months. Remember. He now owns 15% of network. He doesn't need much to auto solve every validation with known flips and random shots. He just need few more epochs. He need time.
I'm just saying that this situation looks so unrealistic. So fake.
Why was he waiting for official announcement before he showed up? He wanted to know how much we know. To commit to the number of node we know about ... to prepare a scenario for himself. Thats how i see this.
I shared my thoughts about how dangerous this case may be, I'm just concerned about my loved IDENA, posting abuser comment about it does not make it less valid.
I have the same opinion.
I bet there is no farm.
Is either an exploit (since the chain is young and experimental) or an inside job.
You can't tell me, that the poor people from India or whatever, pass the validation for $2-3. If they are that poor, they can't afford to pay for the electricity, and to pass Idena validation you'll need much more. Electricity, A PC, internet.
And since the team is OK with the farm, I go for the 2nd one.
This farm thing is just bullshit, imo.
Idena hard fork announcement: Oracle voting
https://medium.com/idena/idena-hard-fork-announcement-oracle-voting-adda7c47d8d2
Guys, I'm sorry to bother you, but I am a bit confused about how I can start the node. For some reason, my laptop doesn't work. Please tell me if there are certain power readings for launch? And why can't you pass the first verification?
This platform is still in Beta stage for a very long time, even more than a year.
What points do developers need to fulfill in order to be able to launch the stable version? be it a node or a client. In fact, we all know that the AMA, which has been carried out several times, is an exchange of information that can actually be done through their official social media or telegram accounts.
My advice for developers is, do your best to develop your project, and rest assured that the business model that you bring will be very useful for everyone.
What points do developers need to fulfill in order to be able to launch the stable version? be it a node or a client. In fact, we all know that the AMA, which has been carried out several times, is an exchange of information that can actually be done through their official social media or telegram accounts.
My advice for developers is, do your best to develop your project, and rest assured that the business model that you bring will be very useful for everyone.
1 IDENA equivalent 0.094$ now and there's no improvement for quite a while. Since no improvement on price even on the recent rally, I have question if HODLing will be the best choice for Idena any longer. I simply wish is there any chance that we reach again 0.30$...
Such a small coin, not listed on any big exchanges does not really fallow wide market rallies. And considering the fact that IDENA had a lot of FUD last days and still many unsolved issues with farms (at least in my opinion they are not solved) price hold very strong at 500 sat. A lot of people are dumping, few whale are filling bags. Like this guy:
https://scan.idena.io/address/0x2251C12699D645f5a649e00f34B7d3320FCb5f73
I'm short term bullish not sure about long term anymore (considering IDNA/BTC not IDNA/USD price).
1 IDENA equivalent 0.094$ now and there's no improvement for quite a while. Since no improvement on price even on the recent rally, I have question if HODLing will be the best choice for Idena any longer. I simply wish is there any chance that we reach again 0.30$...
It seems that ...
It seems that ... you have no idea what you are talking about. There is not even a single correct statement in your post so no reason to point each mistake. Whole post is one big mistake.
What will happen if validation participants on the IDENA blockchain network increase rapidly to 20k people?
What I learned when 20k active mining nodes were validation prizes are likely to drop drastically and mining prizes are also decreasing. Here I can conclude, if there are 20k active nodes mining, the ideal IDNA price is at the level of 0.6 USD / IDNA.
We need to extend the VPS lease, where the important component in a network to confirm transactions is the node. If the node doesn't exist = the blockchain is in doubt.
It seems that this is the reason why IDENA validators never exceed 5000 people, that's my opinion regarding the growth of participants in Idena which never exceed 5000 people
CMIIW
What I learned when 20k active mining nodes were validation prizes are likely to drop drastically and mining prizes are also decreasing. Here I can conclude, if there are 20k active nodes mining, the ideal IDNA price is at the level of 0.6 USD / IDNA.
We need to extend the VPS lease, where the important component in a network to confirm transactions is the node. If the node doesn't exist = the blockchain is in doubt.
It seems that this is the reason why IDENA validators never exceed 5000 people, that's my opinion regarding the growth of participants in Idena which never exceed 5000 people
CMIIW
Idena Proof-of-person blockchain to eliminate risks of mining pools
https://medium.com/idena/idena-proof-of-person-blockchain-to-eliminate-risks-of-mining-pools-74d96e16aa36
This protects us against 51% attack (that is not likely to happend - not profitable) and cheated oracle voting at a cost of:
1- rewards for farms
2- delays in everything - Team will work for next half year on developing all promises that they did to make it easier for farms to farm to make them come out.
This does not solve:
1- farms sorting out duplicates and answering 2.4 times less flips (this opens us to 1 person 5-10 nodes instead of 1 person 1 node)
2- "Idena team activated 60 invitation codes before the validation session to collect decrypted flips. Around 1700 flips were collected." - 60 accounts is enough to collect 1700 flips. With 700 you can collect them all. (this opens up to unpredictable results, for some reason they were encrypted)
3- collaboration of farms and sharing flips between them (two different farms hosted by 2 different farmers that get in touch via telegram and share flip to grow faster together)
This proposal opens a pandora's box but... its not like a have a better one. I kinda feel like we should rather make it harder and harder for them to past validation just to give us time to survive to a moment when they are no longer a thread. This is how idena should be. Limit validation from the same IP to 2-3?, increase number of flips that need to be done between validations (to put down this 2.4). Just dumb guesses.
How about the situation when farms will let you earn more than alone (you will validate 10 nodes each epoch thanks to all optimizations farms can me) and in about a year IDENA will consist from 10 farms with 50 000 members all together and 1000 legit users that mine alone. You need 1010 members unrevealed farm to attack network since those 10 farms with 50 000 nodes has only 10 votes. I know that this is far-reaching
unlikely perspective but letting farms grow and making it easier for them and paying them a bounty for existing opens idena to unpredictable results that might be irreversible.
Idena Proof-of-person blockchain to eliminate risks of mining pools
https://medium.com/idena/idena-proof-of-person-blockchain-to-eliminate-risks-of-mining-pools-74d96e16aa36
Thats because there are no volume on this exchanges and on Hotbit all orders are making by bots. Do they have any plans for listing to decent exchanges like Kucoin, Bitmax etc?
Each point has the goal of being listed on well-known exchanges such as Binance, Kucoin, Bittrex, Kraken and so on. But if we look at the current condition of the IDENA network which is still in the beta stage at the age of which is more than a year, I don't think they are ready to accommodate bigger users when they have many users.
If I can provide some input, then I would recommend developers to keep developing their Oracle first so that it is ready for public use. I think they are too busy with AMA events which have been held several times by the team which currently even calls itself anonymous.
I hope that in future due to competition between pools they will become more fair and will let their workers to own their private keys. It is something like exchanges. Some people keep their cryptocurrencies on exchanges all the time and others use cold wallets. But most of people understand that cold wallets are more safe.
I am not update anymore to this IDENA, I'm not exactly sure if they are in progress to have an event every 15 and 30th of the month to their own wallet for us to have a chance to mine our IDENA to their wallet. And as far as I know also it was already listed too on the exchange isn't that right? If I am not mistaken it was listed at Probit and its price got dumped from 1500 satoshi and now 507 sats.
For the validation ceremony now every 17 days. Idena exchange is not only on probit, but there are qtrade, hotbit, and vitex for now. The current price is still stable at 500 satoshi and that's pretty good in my opinion.
Thats because there are no volume on this exchanges and on Hotbit all orders are making by bots. Do they have any plans for listing to decent exchanges like Kucoin, Bitmax etc?
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