Topic: If bitcoin ever goes mainstream - page 21. (Read 29054 times)

True.


True regarding violence from governments. But people will still use violence in competing against each other - for example to obtain wealth (= Bitcoin).

Bitcoin going mainstream will harm all those who do not adapt to changing rules by holding on to fiat. But that is something I would call "general risk of life, because similar risks exist in many realms of life. During the course of your life you have to adapt to changing conditions multiple times. In the longterm however there is no harm, because all transactions happen in bitcoin and all people will use it.

big error

takeing away the inefficient in the current Government/Banking/exclusion by state licensing via higher "education" system, will see the biggest liberate of wealth ever.

Bitcoin is also a very usefull technology in the sense that it is a worldwide currency with low fees, irreversability and no risks of too many bitcoins being created

You've got it all wrong - there is nothing abstract about this situation. Freedom ultimately comes down from freedom from violence and coercive force.

Nation-state governments back the value of their money with violence and deception. Bitcoin's value is backed in reason, truth, mathematics.

By taking away the power of money from governments and giving it to Bitcoin (or any sovereign crypto), you are quite literally making the world a less violent, more reasonable place.

Understand?

It seems that even central bankers are starting to believe that bitcoin may become the premier form of money: http://www.coindesk.com/new-zealand-central-banker-cryptocurrencies-supplant-cash/

Actually, bitcoin already is the premier form of money, most people just don't know how to use it yet.

This doesn't mean that the volatility isn't a problem. It's a serious problem that, as I wrote in the first post, won't go away for years, even if it might be slowly reduced. Anyone jumping in on the wrong moment can lose up to 90% of its capital, at least for some months, until bitcoin starts going up again.

Bitcoin has grown old, even managed to fall, Bitcoin prices rise again. bictoin never goes mainstream.

Lending is not a problem if it happens freely and the responsability is in the hands of the borrower and the lender

"our interests" ?
I don't think my interests fit in with the normal users of this sub these days...

if it becomes like the major world currency, it will enrich the lives of about 3billion people, for the rest of us living off fiat, a lot of us in the middle will force us to be competitive and to live frugally, as there will be first world prices and 2nd world prices. 3 world will be mostly eliminated.

A handful, a few thousand, maybe 10,000 people will become wealthy from bitcoin, but nothing major. For some it will be major uber wealth, for the majority it will be one nice nest egg. for the rest it will be a currency and that depends on your skills, shit like being an electrical contractor, elevator repairman, certain 'skills' will enrich you, as long as you are active you should be okay,

However, once this current system implodes, a lot of very unskilled, unwise, unexamined people may perhaps vanish and no longer live. The government will be unable to help the populations. The populations will suffer, likely.

Wait until the darkwebs are used to secure food, or perhap ammos, etc etc.. Reputation will perhap determine if and or which level of existence you get.

It may not all be doom and gloom, the fact we might be able to add 3 billion people to global economy may just be the kick in the rear our economy needs right now to beat deflation, atleast for the next 10-25 years, and then at that point, bitcoin could be the main currency and much of the bubble economics we know today will be largely gone as the markets will operate based on exact numbers, speculation might become a thing of the past, eliminating the need for greed, fear, etc to drive the markets. No more animal spirits. <-- that sounds like a great idea, animal spirits, who in the fuck thought of that!

Bitcoin is math based protocol, it was sent here from the heavens to be apart of the shift of 2012... Idk now im ranting and connecting invisible dots, but somewhere in the middle of all that is the answer to what i think is going to happen.

 

You can rest assure that there will be debt and bitcoin fractional reserve lending.

There are already sites paying interest for bitcoin deposits and lending them.

And this might help saving the economy from deflation. Without debt, it would be hard to have high amounts of investment and without investment the economy is dead.

If bitcoin gets a huge market share, some government or large financial institution will find a way to make debts.  Maybe through colored coin bitcoins. 

Debt is a form of slavery. It will be great to see it die a slow death.
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I agree and i think its fine to not have debt. its just a result of the structure of bitcoin. i just believe people don't understand because most people don't understand fiat = debt = inflation = more debt etc.

due to inflation it makes sense for both parties to have debt. the bank needs to have interest in order to not lose value and the creditor has an advantage of taking future money into the present

but with deflation it makes no sense beecause these forces are opposite.
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It really is revolutionary isn't it? I think lending in some capacity will continue but not fractional reserve lending. Debt backed currency is an awful system.

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Debt is a form of slavery. It will be great to see it die a slow death.
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I agree and i think its fine to not have debt. its just a result of the structure of bitcoin. i just believe people don't understand because most people don't understand fiat = debt = inflation = more debt etc.

due to inflation it makes sense for both parties to have debt. the bank needs to have interest in order to not lose value and the creditor has an advantage of taking future money into the present

but with deflation it makes no sense beecause these forces are opposite.

It will be a slow process and people will have time to adjust.  Cash didn't ruin gold, checks didn't ruin cash and credit cards didn't ruin checks, though there was a lot of displacement.  Bitcoin is a more radical technology for sure, but the trend is similar.  It will be a fairly smooth transition. 

Debt is a form of slavery. It will be great to see it die a slow death.

The distribution of wealth with bitcoin today is far worse than it is with fiat. It would be interesting to see how bitcoin would behave in this sense (wealth distribution) in the future when bitcoin is has a marketcap of a few trillion and ultimately 20-100 trillion.

This might be an issue if the wealth is highly concentrated and more so than we have it today.

Think about satoshi. He might be more powerful than any US person if bitcoin would be just a small %age of world currency.


I agree with you that fractional reserve make no sense and loans will not exist with bitcoin. It makes no sense for either party to do loans if there is deflation. If you get a longterm loan with bitcoin you will never get out of it and if you loan out the money u will never see it again. Its bad for both parties. If bitcoin is mainstream there cannot be credit any more (long term) instead there will be investments. We are already seeing this today.

I think this is logically flawed. Because:

If bitcoin becomes mainstream:

1)  i.e. a few hundred million users than the value of bitcoin must go up tremendously.

3) the value of bitcoin must come at the cost of fiat. In other words the value of the USD must come down significantly for bitcoin to go mainsteam

4) when fiat goes down while btc goes up, people will stop using fiat and use more btc. Because BTC is good for the individual people will more and more move to bitcoin.

5) at this point fiat money must collapse (its value) which increases this cycle. There is a tipping point (mathematical concept) at which point this may go over rather quickly.

I do not believe it is possible for fiat or bitcoin to exist side by side.

Right now we are not anywhere near a growth point that can enable this however as there is no real need for bitcoin today. the nr of transactions is pretty stable this year and usage is not going up much. bitcoin needs a killer app, something you can only do with bitcoin. at this point bitcoin is something weird and new for folks with a tech fetish or establishment haters.

I think your predictions are a little on the extreme side.  While I suppose that a strong btc economy could destroy companies like paypal and weaken companies like visa/mastercard, it's hard to imagine all currencies everywhere folding in the face of the One True Currency.  bitcoin provides some measure of anonymity and a huge measure of convenience for a lot of types of transactions but fiat currencies backed by armies and armies are still going to be seen as a "gold standard" (pardon the pun) for the foreseeable future, imho.

You don't really directly have a say right now and if it becomes mainstream we will be very wealthy so we will be better off than now

If bitcoin goes mainstream will it continue to reflect our interests? We aren't a big group.