If Bitcoin fails, all cryptos fail? | Bitcointalksearch.org

sidhujag

legendary

Activity: 2044

Merit: 1005

Quote from: God27 on November 20, 2014, 09:23:38 AM

Quote from: sidhujag on November 19, 2014, 01:58:09 PM

Quote from: var53 on November 19, 2014, 01:56:02 PM

Quote from: sidhujag on November 19, 2014, 01:49:54 PM

There is too many XRP to sustain such prices... it has 7100x more supply than bitcoin so at bitcoin $300 its worth less than $0.04/xrp... with bitcoin volume.. so I'd say its too high, maybe $0.0004 I would buy.

The price ATM is only $ 0.0056 not $0.04/xrp. The price is somewhere in between what you regard as too high and $0.0004 where you would buy.

Oops true.. but id wait for one more drop in decimal place to be safe

It's like bitcoin @ $30. But XRP userbase is nowhere near BTC.

You have to include the dumb speculation when buying. You won't get the price your trying to get. When xrp userbase should be near a penny it will be 2 and so on.....

Wrong u fail at investing., learn math.

U will mostly be able to buy at a cheaper price than u bought unless its a special case.. But depends wat pct u give it.. Id say btc has that not any alt

cryptogeeknext

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Bitcoin trolls back

I think more accurate question is what model of control over money would prevail in the future.

If Bitcoin demonstrates that hard fork is possible at this stage (for block size increase), then it opens up possibilities to change other aspects of the system including distribution model, hard limit on coins as well as control over transactions with PoW mining.

If that changed, would we consider Bitcoin failed or just evolved?
The real battle in crypto-space is waged for minds of the people.
Ideas have more weight than just code.

God27

sr. member

Activity: 364

Merit: 250

The 4th industrial revolution!

Quote from: sidhujag on November 19, 2014, 01:58:09 PM

Quote from: var53 on November 19, 2014, 01:56:02 PM

Quote from: sidhujag on November 19, 2014, 01:49:54 PM

There is too many XRP to sustain such prices... it has 7100x more supply than bitcoin so at bitcoin $300 its worth less than $0.04/xrp... with bitcoin volume.. so I'd say its too high, maybe $0.0004 I would buy.

The price ATM is only $ 0.0056 not $0.04/xrp. The price is somewhere in between what you regard as too high and $0.0004 where you would buy.

Oops true.. but id wait for one more drop in decimal place to be safe

It's like bitcoin @ $30. But XRP userbase is nowhere near BTC.

You have to include the dumb speculation when buying. You won't get the price your trying to get. When xrp userbase should be near a penny it will be 2 and so on.....

TaunSew

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 506

Quote from: devphp on November 20, 2014, 08:56:31 AM

Quote from: rocoro on November 20, 2014, 08:53:00 AM

It's not clear to me what you mean by fail.

Its a currency, a tool.
The only way it can "fail" completely is if there was some catastrophic flaw or "hack" that would deem it not viable to be used as the tool it is.

If you mean by market cap and price alone, then also no, aside from any unseen catastrophic flaws; there will always be some type of value.

That's actually a question in the OP. Different people define 'Bitcoin failed' in different ways, you need to post your definition, as well as your thoughts on if that happens would it have other cryptos fail too. No, I don't mean a catastrophic encryption flaw.

Failed concept = digital currencies revert to being worth less than $50 million
Failed execution = Bitcoin is surpassed by another coin

Seems simple enough

devphp

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 260

Quote from: rocoro on November 20, 2014, 08:53:00 AM

It's not clear to me what you mean by fail.

Its a currency, a tool.
The only way it can "fail" completely is if there was some catastrophic flaw or "hack" that would deem it not viable to be used as the tool it is.

If you mean by market cap and price alone, then also no, aside from any unseen catastrophic flaws; there will always be some type of value.

That's actually a question in the OP. Different people define 'Bitcoin failed' in different ways, you need to post your definition, as well as your thoughts on if that happens would it have other cryptos fail too. No, I don't mean a catastrophic encryption flaw.

rocoro

legendary

Activity: 938

Merit: 1000

It's not clear to me what you mean by fail.

Its a currency, a tool.
The only way it can "fail" completely is if there was some catastrophic flaw or "hack" that would deem it not viable to be used as the tool it is.

If you mean by market cap and price alone, then also no, aside from any unseen catastrophic flaws; there will always be some type of value.

cryptogeeknext

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Bitcoin trolls back

Quote from: ShroomsKit_Disgrace on November 20, 2014, 06:14:04 AM

Quote from: alwinlinzee on November 20, 2014, 06:11:54 AM

The world have tested bitcoin and it has seen to be something unique and it ensures freedom, failure of bitcoin will easily give birth to something better than bitcoin because life must continue.

Are you talking about NXT? Ethereum maybe? Bitshares? There you have 3 inmediate examples of "something better than bitcoin".

I highly doubt these three are better, as a group of stakeholders with majority vote will at some point maintain total control over the network and can stay unchallenged in this position indefinitely at no cost. This is not possible with Bitcoin.

If Bitcoin fails, it won't be because of the technical issues as those can always be corrected, but because people are not yet ready to understand the mechanics of control over money in the system and often blinded with just possibility for profit. They sell control(freedom) for profit(comfort). Happened before, happens again.

Saying that other crypto might succeed if Bitcoin fails doesn't mean much, because as I already pointed out not all cryptos are in the same league. You can say that today's fiat is also crypto as banks use strong encryption, but that hardly makes any difference.

ShroomsKit_Disgrace

legendary

Activity: 952

Merit: 1000

Yeah! I hate ShroomsKit!

Quote from: alwinlinzee on November 20, 2014, 06:11:54 AM

The world have tested bitcoin and it has seen to be something unique and it ensures freedom, failure of bitcoin will easily give birth to something better than bitcoin because life must continue.

Are you talking about NXT? Ethereum maybe? Bitshares? There you have 3 inmediate examples of "something better than bitcoin".

alwinlinzee

sr. member

Activity: 434

Merit: 250

The world have tested bitcoin and it has seen to be something unique and it ensures freedom, failure of bitcoin will easily give birth to something better than bitcoin because life must continue.

TaunSew

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 506

Quote from: ReserviorHunt on November 20, 2014, 02:28:06 AM

Quote from: rdnkjdi on November 19, 2014, 01:11:09 PM

My opinion isn't popular. I think a crypto has a bright future. But it's not going to be bitcoin or any others that have a limited number of coins with inevitable extremely high transaction fees.

Not many (ethereum as far as I know is the only ... maybe doge?) That have this economic philosophy. Making a currency a pyramid scheme is as bad as the way things work in fiat. Rich get richer off the backs of new blood.

Just my 02

Agreed with the overall idea, disagree on ethereum and doge completely.

Bitcoin won't be around forever or be as prominent. Things will change.

I'm completely fair with this discussion. If Bitcoin had 100+ million users then I would say: "congratulations first mover advantage and can't be unseated"

This is compared to the reality where many people have estimated Bitcoin's userbase to be a high of 2 million users and a low of 250,000 users (some people on this forum suggest even lower like 50,000). This is despite all the media attention, hype and government regulation. You don't see governments obsessing over Drop Box which has a bigger capitalization than Bitcoin or harassing Costco & Walmart club members.

I thought bad publicity was still publicity? Well it doesn't seem to be working that way because Bitcoin is still smaller than the internet in the late 1980s.

If Bitcoin "fails" it's because some alternate overtakes it and it won't take 6 years either. All you need is the one coin that goes viral and is palpable by mainstream.

ReserviorHunt

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 10

Quote from: rdnkjdi on November 19, 2014, 01:11:09 PM

My opinion isn't popular. I think a crypto has a bright future. But it's not going to be bitcoin or any others that have a limited number of coins with inevitable extremely high transaction fees.

Not many (ethereum as far as I know is the only ... maybe doge?) That have this economic philosophy. Making a currency a pyramid scheme is as bad as the way things work in fiat. Rich get richer off the backs of new blood.

Just my 02

Agreed with the overall idea, disagree on ethereum and doge completely.

Bitcoin won't be around forever or be as prominent. Things will change.

BigBill

member

Activity: 70

Merit: 10

Quote from: devphp on November 19, 2014, 01:29:35 PM

Quote from: Lauda on November 19, 2014, 01:26:11 PM

In a case (I don't think that it is possible, unless a major flaw destroys it) where Bitcoin would fall, it is most likely that all cryptos would be proclaimed as unsafe and fall. The whole system would collapse.

Why? That was my question. Suppose it's not an encryption/algorithm failure.

I think in BTC there is to many money invest, that is why all this system will not collapse so easy.

TaunSew

hero member

Activity: 756

Merit: 506

Quote from: manselr on November 19, 2014, 01:48:40 PM

Quote from: Walsoraj on November 19, 2014, 01:42:35 PM

If When Bitcoin fails, Ripple wins.

http://www.ripplecharts.com/ Going up right now. Cheesy

Market noise.
If Bitcoin crashed, there would be a big ass panic sell on all things crypto, no doubt. Of course it doesn't mean eventually some other coin would take the spot or Bitcoin would rise again. As a concept crypto is not going away, but a legitimate crash of Bitcoin means a crash in all things crypto.

Ripple dates all the way back to 2004. Ripple has had twice the amount of time as Bitcoin to go somewhere and it never did. So keep entertaining these delusions. Cheesy

If Coinbase or BitPay had a stockmarket IPO, although they are not coins, I bet they would be worth more than that centralized scam Ripple.

devphp

sr. member

Activity: 336

Merit: 260

Quote from: var53 on November 19, 2014, 04:59:29 PM

Quote from: mymenace on November 19, 2014, 02:51:59 PM

bitcoin failed to me means;

everyone stops using it

even if bitcoin is worth one cent i can still use it to pay for goods and services without having to deal with banks and all the fees that go with that

Yes, to me bitcoin failed means nobody will swap it for anything, not a pizza, and not even 0.00000000001 of a cent. If nobody wants it then it's failed as a store of value.

That's a very loose definition though. Somebody will always want it, I guess, but this doesn't necessarily mean it's a good store of value, just ask Zimbabweans.

var53

sr. member

Activity: 345

Merit: 250

Quote from: mymenace on November 19, 2014, 02:51:59 PM

bitcoin failed to me means;

everyone stops using it

even if bitcoin is worth one cent i can still use it to pay for goods and services without having to deal with banks and all the fees that go with that

Yes, to me bitcoin failed means nobody will swap it for anything, not a pizza, and not even 0.00000000001 of a cent. If nobody wants it then it's failed as a store of value.

dewdeded

legendary

Activity: 1232

Merit: 1011

Monero Evangelist

Quote from: devphp on November 19, 2014, 01:04:56 PM

Can we define failure of Bitcoin as "market cap below 50% of total market cap of the crypto industry"? It still wouldn't be a failure though, but we need a starting point of sorts to be able to tell that it's started to decline. Anyway, let me know what you think on these two points: what "Bitcoin failed" means for you and why if that technically happens would it be fatal for other cryptos if indeed you think it would be fatal for other cryptos?

Worst case
Bitcoin really failed, if the falls under 50% market share of crypto industry and the new leader is a Crypto-Coin owned/controlled by goverment or inter-goverments like EU, UN, OSCE, USA or NATO.

Pretty bad case
A fuck corporate controlled and manipulated coin like Stellar or Ripple or whatever takes over.

Stupid/bad case
A whatever-based legitimate but unfair-distributed crypto-coin takes over
(like an NXT or any other coin with unfair or manipulated ICO or distribution)

Neutral/good case
I) A non bitcoin-based legitimate coin takes over. Like an fair-distributed CryptoNote-based, fair-distributed NXT-based, ...
or
II) A fair-distributed legitimate bitcoin-based coin like Darkcoin or Litecoin (unlikely) takes over

mymenace

legendary

Activity: 1596

Merit: 1061

Smile

Quote from: devphp on November 19, 2014, 01:04:56 PM

Anyway, let me know what you think on these two points: what "Bitcoin failed" means for you and why if that technically happens would it be fatal for other cryptos if indeed you think it would be fatal for other cryptos?

Please refrain from pumping your favorite altcoin in this thread. Thank you.

bitcoin failed to me means;

everyone stops using it

even if bitcoin is worth one cent i can still use it to pay for goods and services without having to deal with banks and all the fees that go with that,
and it is so easy with bitpay and current wallet apps e.g. circle

of course it would be fatal for other crypto's no other crypto has the services and the network like bitcoin

I am confused to why this question gets asked it is the same as saying what if fiat fails, there will always be a need for fiat where people do not have access to technology. There will always be a need for bitcoin even if to pay for something that is off the radar.

my speculation

sidhujag

legendary

Activity: 2044

Merit: 1005

Quote from: var53 on November 19, 2014, 01:56:02 PM

Quote from: sidhujag on November 19, 2014, 01:49:54 PM

There is too many XRP to sustain such prices... it has 7100x more supply than bitcoin so at bitcoin $300 its worth less than $0.04/xrp... with bitcoin volume.. so I'd say its too high, maybe $0.0004 I would buy.

The price ATM is only $ 0.0056 not $0.04/xrp. The price is somewhere in between what you regard as too high and $0.0004 where you would buy.

Oops true.. but id wait for one more drop in decimal place to be safe

It's like bitcoin @ $30. But XRP userbase is nowhere near BTC.

var53

sr. member

Activity: 345

Merit: 250

Quote from: sidhujag on November 19, 2014, 01:49:54 PM

There is too many XRP to sustain such prices... it has 7100x more supply than bitcoin so at bitcoin $300 its worth less than $0.04/xrp... with bitcoin volume.. so I'd say its too high, maybe $0.0004 I would buy.

The price ATM is only $ 0.0056 not $0.04/xrp. The price is somewhere in between what you regard as too high and $0.0004 where you would buy.

sidhujag

legendary

Activity: 2044

Merit: 1005

There is too many XRP to sustain such prices... it has 7100x more supply than bitcoin so at bitcoin $300 its worth less than $0.04/xrp... with bitcoin volume.. so I'd say its too high, maybe $0.0004 I would buy.

Topic: If Bitcoin fails, all cryptos fail? (Read 2283 times)